How do you go about adjudicating things like Hardliner Gloves and Brass Knuckles when they are used in combination with the Killing Hands adept power?

My GM always said "No."

-Siege

Tell the adept that they are weak for attempting to rely on such things. Shame them out of trying it.

Lacking that, this goes onto a long debate over the exact wording of an obscure phrase.

As long as the number isn't insane (at chargen), I'd let it work.

I think I said this before, but it seems to fit:

Kinda lends NEW MEANING to the old cliche`--

"All right, NO MORE 'Mister Nice Guy'! The GLOVES are OFF!"

--Doesn't it?




--Foreigner

Never had the problem, but I would rule that if the Adept used his Killing Hand power, only this power's damage would apply, unmodified by accessories.

I would say that only the accessory damage would apply, not the power.

I've never had anyone bring this up, but I suppose I'd let it work. If it works through shoes, gloves, etc. then it should work with other kinds of hand/footwear.

It works, because killing hands and bone lacing would in theory work from a game rules standpoint. Although, Ive always thought of killing hands as a sort of "aura" around the hands (foot whatever) that makes it strike at their being rather than just hit them due to some artwork I saw early on in playing SR. Like an above poster said, if it works through shoes and such its gotta work here. Besides, the 1 power from hardliner gloves isnt really going to make or break anything, I wouldnt sweat over it. Same goes for shock gloves I suppose, although Ive never seen them used with killing hands (usually only with a normal punch so the stun dmg adds up).

The thing is that everyone who uses Killing Hands is going to end up equipping all sorts of accessories because there's no reason not to. There ought to be some kind of advantage to going bare (if only because it has more style).

Perhaps using knuckles and heavy gloves could make it harder to use certain maneuvers that require more flexibility. That sounds like a good compromise to me.

On that same idea, Killing Hands would be compatible with muscle augment to boot.

-Siege

Not a big deal if they try to max it, really. All things considered Killing Hands isnt worth it except if you plan on meleeing spirits. Even a troll with Str 10, Muscle Aug 4, Suprathyroid, Titanium Bones, Hardliner Gloves comes out to only 20M stun. Assuming he had the magic to get Killing Hands D, he can punch like an assualt cannon at the expense of all that essence/magic/buildpoints. By comparison you can do nearly the same thing simply by using the troll with Str 10, Muscle Aug 4, and a dikoted polearm at 19D with the advantage of having an additional 2 reach. If you want something a bit more concealable, go with a dikoted sword at 18S and 1 reach. And that doesnt even factor in the potential bonus dice for ambidexterity from using a weapon instead of being unarmed, and even with the cost of the edge its still cheaper than paying for magic.

I wouldnt worry about anyone trying to max out killing hands. IMO its best used at 1 point for M damage or 2 points for S, to use for smacking around spirits and saving your teams booty. Its a nice tool to have in the bag but if a player wants to really sink the recources into trying to max it, dont mind them. Its nothing you couldnt get another way in an equally effective level... I mean adepts could turn that 18S sword into a weapon focus...

hmmm....you guys pretty much convinced me. I guess I was tinking the finale of "Kickboxer" where JC VanDamn char got whupped up on until he cut the glass/glue/rope off his hands. That's the way I've always pictured it, come to think of it. Or was there a rule in one of the older Eds?

It would, for normal people.

Like hardliner gloves or improvised cesti, it does wonders for the average unarmed attack.

But trying to mix it with magic is another matter entirely.

-Siege

Have the Killing Hands destroy whatever is being worn on the hands.

Question: Does Killing Hands mean you have to take off your shoes to kick some guy? The gloves come off, yes. But fighting bare foot? Suddenly I've visions of Bruce Willis in Die Hard.

Also considering the abusive drawbacks of the no-gloves policy for the GM, I would allow Killing Hands to be used with any and all accessories that boost Unarmed Combat.

Imagine a Tae Kwon Do adept having to take off his shoes to use his kick attack. Absolutely ridiculous!

Yeah, the main idea was in fighting Spirits. And I agree that more than Killing Hands: M is unnecessary.

So, the concensus seems to be that the accessories would add to the power Physically, even though they normally only add to unarmed's Stun damage.

What about Shock Gloves in the same situation?

What if the Hardliners/Knuckles were Weapon Foci?

Additionally, can anyone tell me where Brass (or whatever they are made of in 2060) knuckles can be found in Shadowrun canon? I know I've seen them written up, but I'm not sure of the source, even down to whether it was an official one or not.

In Brainscan there's a group of NPC adepts whose Killing Hands power takes the form of a flaming aura around their hands.

In that case, Req sez: take off the gloves, homies.

Yeah, well in Brainscan theres also a Brain...that gets uh...scanned.

How do you explain that, Req?