Hey,

I'm playing an angel like mage character and want to create a new spell. The spell should give armor to more than one individual at a time. I have read the spell design section in Street Magic but could only find the Area Spell option. Unfortunately my angel would have to have all characters within LOS and within the radius of x meters to make the spell work (as far as I understand the rules...). I'd like to have some kind of blessing. Once casted, the spell should be sustained but my team members should be able to leave LOS and the radius.

Is there a workaround? Drain doesn't matter.

TIA!

They all have to be in LOS to be eligible targets for the spell to be cast upon them, but there is no such restriction for maintaining the spell.

I don't think you can do what you want. You have three options:

Area spell, but all of your friends must remain in the area.
Individual LOS spell, cast and sustained individually on each target.
Individual LOS spell, and use a spirit or focus to sustain it.

Also, note, you cannot ignore valid targets, so if you use an Area blessing, your enemies that enter the area will also receive the blessing.

What you want is a multi-target sustained spell, which doesn't exist, probably for game balance reasons.

Many examples of just that exist. Numerous Illusion spells, Manipulations like Mana Net and Mob Mind also run counter to your 'doesn't exist' line. I didn't quote rules in my last post, but at least I didn't throw up complete hogwash onto the board...

I think the answer you are looking for is:

In ShadowRun, spells can't be sustained by a magician without line of sight. That is just how the magic of ShadowRun works. Magicians can do almost anything, but they have to see it.

You have a couple "options" to do what you want:

1). Quickening. If you have the Quickening metamagic. You could cast your AoE Armor spell then quicken it and it would sustain itself, allowing people to leave your line of sight.

2). Ritual Spellcasting. If you summoned a number of spirits equal to the number of people you wanted to "bless" then used them all as spotters for the spell, that would allow the team to go anywhere (with the spirit following astrally). Though I don't know how Ritual Spellcasting and sustained spells work....

What the above post was about was saying that a multi-targeted, sustained spell, in which you choose which targets you hit and which you don't does not exist. There are plenty of AoE spells, but that is not the same as a spell that hits only "allies", and not "enemies".

Calm down and try to see what someone is saying before you flame them.

That's not what he's asking for - he wants to boost the group and then have them go into the other room and further apart than the spell radius while remaining boosted. I noted that this is possible by the rules. There is nothing in the OP about selectively targeting the AoE. The OP never mentions "enemies" at all.


Learn to read better and you might get flamed less.

Yeah, the spell would have to be LOS(A) and you would cast it when only your allies were around and then sustain the effect on them.

Or do T(A) and have everyone hold hands then sustain the spell, much like Mindnet. But the caster needs line of sight.

Pg 159 of Street Magic explains it. You need a link to the target of the spell. For Spellcasting it is Line of Sight.

I did forget the new material, sympathetic, and symbolic link rules in Street Magic. So you could preform a ritual spell casting with blood samples from your team, then sustain the spell. Though again I don't know the rules on sustaining Ritual Magic (I have never seen it mentioned).

Though to be able to do that the force of the spell would have to be really high, which means you are going to need a Mana Lodge of equal value to the Force.

I am guessing you are thinking something like:
Physical
LoS
Area
Sustained
Physical Manipulation.
Which would make the drain (F/2)+3, not bad.

I would say the effect would have to be something like, Force of the spell limits the number of people who it can effect. Hits are then distributed among those effected giving each a +1/+1 armor value. So if you did a Force 5, which would cost 2500 for the lodge, you could give out 5 +1/+1. Seems like a fair spell to me.

You have three types of ranges:

Touch
LOS
Area

Any of these can be sustained spells. Area spells, however, target an area. They do not specifically target the individuals within an area. Thus, if you cannot choose between friends and enemies in the area, and if your friends leave the area, they are no longer affected by the spell.

For example, if you cast blessing in Room 1 and affect players A & B, if player A enters Room 2, the spell effects disappear, even if the caster continues sustaining the spell, because it only effects players in Room 1.

I should add, however, that while it isn't possible to have a spell with more than one target (it is either a single individual, or a single area), it is possible to cast multiple spells with the same action, including the same spell more than once. See page 183 of SR4A, because that might cover what you want.

*edit: Researching this more to double check that I'm right about this.

Confirmed, SR4A, page 184 (emphasis added).



That spell doesn't exist. As soon as the group moves farther apart than the spell radius, at least one of them has "dropped out" of the affected area and will no longer receive the boost.

As I noted above you can cast multiple spells in a single action, but you would face multiple sustaining spell negative modifiers, so it won't accomplish your goals either.

Regarding the ability to exclude enemies, you can have a 'restricted target' option on a spell. While that restriction can't be "allies" it can be "People wearing a charm that looks like this."

Excellent point.

Thank you all for your answers!



Yes, I think this is a great solution. Thank you!



Great idea to reduce drain. Will use it, thanks!


This could also work for me, thank you!

BELETED.

I Like that a lot... Points for Rathmun...

I don't know, you are at least stretching the rules here, if not outright breaking them.

The suggestion for restricted targets is voluntary, or a specific race. The list isn't exclusive, but I think the type of target has to fall into the general type. At a minimum, since people with item "x" is so specific and small, it would actually fall into the category of Very Restricted Target.

Very restricted target, however, is designed for caster-only, or a specific (named) individual (It would be interesting to design a death spell to take revenge on a particular mortal enemy). With gamemaster approval, it can be extended to a small group, such as a male trolls, rotordrones, or water spirits (particular metavariants might also fall into this).

The problem, however, as you see in the box just to the left of restricted targets, is that magic is not intelligent. Thus, I don't think magic can distinguish between targets unless there is something particular about their aura or general physical structure (for drones) that enables the spell to distinguish between targets.

It's a clever idea, but I don't think it should be allowed unless the specified items are magical items that bear the astral signature of the caster. Perhaps a new type of "targeting focus" could be developed. If you go through that much trouble, however, it might be better just to get sustaining foci and cast the spell individually on each target.

Here is a thought... you can use items of personal possession for ritual casting purposes (sympathetic and symbolic links) for targeting purposes, and they are not necessarily magical in nature, but they have indeed picked up an aura of the individual that holds it... Since this is allowed, I would say that a specific X of Y with Z (For Example: All individuals wearing a golden seal necklace of Ra) targeting sequence for the magic would be perfectly valid...

Just a Thought...

That's an interesting point, I'll look into it. My gut, however, still tells me its abusive. The sympathetic link would let you target the specific individual, or maybe even the area that individual is in, but in this case, it feels like you are using a charm to work around the "area spells can't ignore valid targets" rule.

Note the Slaughter [metatype/species] spell say they can't be used to distinguish between targets based upon social status or any other quality other than biological species. This suggests that a group of monks couldn't come up with an armor spell that targets only bald people, which would be less abusive than the charm spell, because the GM could just throw bald enemies at you.

Very Valid... it is an interesting topic...

Okay, that won't work either. Sympathetic and symbolic links are unique to the target. Thus, the targeting charms would each have to be unique to the target. If the charms were unique, however, you need a different, unique spell for each target, because there is nothing about the charms to make them qualify as a single group (each has a different aura). Also, the links are destroyed after a single casting, so you would have to make a new one each time.

Doesn't a photograph work as a link, if so then the mage just has to carry a few group photos around.

The problem is the target of the spell, there are only the options of single target and area. In the latter case you still have to choose a single target around which the area is centered, and then all valid targets are affected. Moreover a photograph does not qualify as either sympathetic or symbolic link IMHO.

The loophole might be voluntary target, as the opposition generally does not want to be affected by the runner's magic, and since AFAIK it isn't even possible to deduce the exact spell by assensing chances are pretty thin that the opposition would find out what the mage is doing right away. The other option is that you could forget about not affecting your enemies and use offensive measures against them that either ignore armor (direct combat spells, chemicals, nerve strike etc.) or are highly effective against armor (SnS, elemental attacks etc.). In any case the caster however would have to move the area with a complex action, so Increase Reflexes would be very useful.

This is incorrect. You cannot cast a spell without some connection, either via line of sight, touch or with ritual spellcasting a material, sympathetic or symbolic link. Sustaining however has no such resrtiction. There is no rule in any SR book saying otherwise. It would also be nonsense, or how would you sustain an invisibility spell on any target unless you resist it?

Coming into this late, I know. Stupid work.



Magic is not intelligent, per se, but the wielder of it is. It's the will of the magician that causes the magic to manifest into the desired effect. It's the will of the magician that determines who the recipient of that channeled mana is. So it would be feasible for the magician to target only "allies to me and my team" and have it work out just fine. You feel it's stretching or breaking rules, cool. As I've used "willing targets only" as a restriction for an LOS(A) levitate spell before, I've got no problems with general restrictions. You're still restricting the spell in some fashion, and that's precisely what that aspect of the spell creation is intended for. If certain things were never intended to be used as restrictions, we might have seen an example or two of what *doesn't* count.

Of course there is the statement that magic is not intelligent, but even some canon spell bend or break this rule, at least in my opinion. Detect enemies and translate come to mind.

1. The will of the magician is not sufficient to allow him to ignore valid targets in an area spell, so it would be a rule violation to allow a magiciatn to target on'y "allies to me and my team."

2. "Willing targets only" is the same thing as voluntary, a specifically improved restriction. It doesn't cause problems because your enemies can be voluntary.

3. That aspect of spell creation is desinged to restrict spells in one of two different manners, not just any manner. Using a charm doesn't fit well into either of those manners. While not strictly prohibited, I believe it would be an unintended usage of target restrictions and violative of the spirit of the rules. As you pointed at that, that's my opinion, cool.

4. We have examples of what magic can't do in general. It would be unreasonable for writers to come up with negative examples for every specific rule. They didn't even clearly address how background count affects casting, so why would they take time to make specific examples of what you can't do with a restricted target?

@ Dakka Dakka: You are right, detect enemies does seem to break the restriction, and you didn't even have to point out turn to goo. Of course, just because the writers can't follow their own rules (especially for spells that were designed before the rules were written) doesn't mean we should be able to repeat their actions.