I did a quick search on the forums, have looked at the FAQ, and have even tried google. I am trying to resolve an issue on whether counterspelling works against critter powers- such as fear. I am assuming not but was hoping their was some textual support in some book beyond the negative inference that nothing is mentioned anywhere and the semantic arguments that a power is not the same as a spell.

I'm fairly sure that it says this somewhere. But I have no idea where. It might have been a clarification here by a freelancer or dev.

IMNSHO it doesn't really make 100% sense that you can't counterspell them.

counterspelling doesn't work against critter powers, with the exception of innate spell.

if you wanted a houserule, you could always allow banishing to work as counterspelling vs spirit powers only... it might make the skill somewhat worth taking for people who aren't trying to pokemon spirits...

What Jaid said.^^

Thanks everyone! That's what I thought.

It makes spirits crazy dangerous when they start throwing clearly magical lightning bolts around and your mage is powerless to stop them.

Not all that much more dangerous than a drone that starts throwing clearly mechanical autocannon rounds around and your rigger is powerless to stop them...

Autocannon rounds are at least resisted with two sets of dice: Body + Armor. A critter power is resisted with only Willpower.

If the spirit is throwing lightning bolts, then thier resisted exactly the same as normal lighting bolt = Body + Impact Armor/2.

** + any non-conductivity modifiers added to the armor, of course.

(Note: This is per SR4A, who knows what's going to be in Running Wild that changes things?)

Only Confusion, Fear, Influence and Paralyzing Howl use [MAGic + Other Stat] against the character's raw [WILlpower].

Confusion is simultaneously a very Bad Thing, and not a big deal at all, depending on how it goes; It applies a negative dice pool modifier to ALL ACTIONS. If you've got 16 dice to begin with losing three of four isn't THAT big a deal. For your secondary skills, though...

Fear makes you run away, and affects a single target as a complex action. It's not instantly fatal unless you're alone and the thing's actually chasing you.

Influence functions much like a Mental Manipulation spell, but is not technically a spell. It requires a complex action per target. This one is potentially the most dangerous of the abilities that attack the target's WILlpower alone, especially if the critter is also Sapient so they can pick the best target to hit.

Paralyzing Howl is indiscriminate affecting friend and foe alike, so it's not a good thing for groups of critters, and sound dampening 'ware or the equivalents penalize the critter's dice pool, as do Silence and Hush spells; The power only reduces the character's REAction for [Critter's MAGic] minutes - it's not total paralysis unless the creature gets net hits >= the characters REAction. As long as you keep a point of REAction, you're good to engage the critter.

I'm not THAT ready to quake in total fear of "WILlpower only" effects... you didn't use WILlpower as your dump stat, did you? I NEVER do.

As an aside, personally I've found that Banishing becomes much better if you only apply drain when the Spirit wins.

Hence why I said "critter powers." Magical Attacks do grant armor, but do keep in mind that the same lightning bolt cast as a spell also gets Counterspelling.

Which would you rather have?
Body + (Impact/2) + Nonconductivity + Counterspelling or Body + (Impact/2) + Nonconductivity

I guess the way I see it, casting a spell channels the local Mana in a completely different way then a critter using an innate power does so counterspelling is largely useless.

Body + (Impact/2) + Nonconductivity as thats the only one you can get agains anykind of lightning, Counterspelling helps with dodging not damage resistance.

Yeah I never understood that....

Here roll reaction to have it miss you... and add counterspelling! (considering how gimped direct combat spells are).

I belive it works better if you counterspell the indirect spell by adding it to the soak dice and makes them competitive to direct spells in terms to drain and effect. But the RAW is the RAW :(.


As far as the other point... we've had zero ill effects from adding counterspelling to spirit powers so far. I see the point on banishing instead... as it does give it some point... but counterspelling still seems the better skill. (though it does lead to wierdness... you counterspell an illusion even when you're not aware of it through your jamming... yo GM if you're going to do that, reduce the damn concealment power by counterspelling hits (very valuable as concealment is a bit broken as well).

Fine, Reaction + Counterspelling vs. a Force 10 lightning bolt, or Reaction?

The point is, Counterspelling reduces the damage in the end, not having it sucks.