Just recently started running a SR3 game with my local group and need a quick clarification on a couple of spells. Yes I run SR3 and not SR4, I have all the necessary books (including 3 copies of BBB). I have my reasons, mostly not wanting to spend a ton of money on a new edition as well as some issues with how the fluff has been treated.

So here's me asking Dumpshock to not flame me and step into the RAI WABAC for SR3. In return I'll probably start posting session logs of this campaign for posterity and for others to plunder at will.

Is there any reason to ever take Heal/Treat or Invisibility at higher than Force 1? I can't see any benefit to the higher force based on RAW. Heal/Treat cure success # of boxes based on a TN of 10-Essence while Invisibility increases the TN for perception by the number of successes. Since Force = TN for casting and drain, I can't see a reason to ever cast above Force 1.

Note: I have GM'd multiple systems over the years but haven't had a steady SR group since 1998. In that group I ran intermittently while mostly playing optimized sniper/heavy weapons characters. Magic users were mostly in the hands of folks that knew the mechanics so I didn't familiarize myself with them much.

hi hi

If you cast Heal/Treat at force 1, you can only ever heal 1 box of damage (the number of boxes healed is limited by force) on top of that, you can only use magical healing once on any given injury. So no casting rank 1 heal a bunch of times over and over.

For invisibility, the target number to resist the spell is equal to its force, so if you cast invisibility at force 1, everyone and their dog is going to succeed their intelligence roll.

That's what I needed.

Apparently reading the spell entry helps. My brain has been glossing over that Force limitation on heal for about 12 years now.

Don't feel bad I had to ask recently how the heck spirits attack when they don't have an unarmed combat skill

IIRC, the spells where Force doesn't matter are the Increase Reflexes ones.

Welcome to Dumpshock, KnightofArgh. Ares Pride!

And Malachi, doesn't it not matter as long as Force is at least 4? Or am I just stuck in SR4-mode?

Yes, you're in SR4 mode. In SR3 there were 3 distinct spells: Increase Reflexes I, Increase Reflexes II, and Increase Reflexes III. As I recall, neither the Force, nor the Spellcasting test mattered. If the spell "activated" then it would grant +1d6, +2d6, and +3d6 to Initiative, respectively. The only time Force came into play was: determining the Force of a Sustaining Focus to sustain them with no penalty, and the TN for a Mage to Dispel them.

Although I have to ask, do you really want to get your IPs from a ( Force 1 ) spell as opposed to making it as hard as possible to dispell?

Anyone who was in a position to dispell your sustained Increase Reaction spell was better off using his action to manabolt you into oblivion. If he's willing to waste his IP dispelling my spell, then I'm ok with that.

It's been awhile since I've read Third Edition's rules, but if I remember correctly, wasn't Counterspelling useless against dispelling attempts? I just remember it as being more of a pro/con choice.

A note, a force 1 invisibility is amazing against non-magic types. If you can manage to get more successes than their intelligence, then they dont even have a chance to see you.

Yet another broken rule, fixed by 4th.

Very true. Just be very sure you know they dont have any magic and be very sure you're rolling enough dice to beat their INT's. Of course the moment it hits magic it's useless.

Aren't pretty much all spells limited to successes = the force of the spell, or am I thinking of something else?

I am pretty sure they are. So yeah only the initiative-spells are ok with one success (and force one). Maybe on some you can lower the power too. But most of the time: FULL POWAHHH.

Well, the ones that increase IP's has a threshold of 2/3/4 Hits. So for the equiv of Wired 3, you're casting at least Force 4. But yeah, not much reason to cast above that, other than to make it harder for an opposing mage (or his summoned spirit) to attack and pop your spell.

However, if the typical character has a Intelligence of 3-4 and you have 8 successes on your casting, then they DO NOT SEE THROUGH IT... somethig I was very happy to see go away in 4th Edition... The typical caster in SR3 has far more dice to throw for effect than the resistance stat of the typical opposition... this being the case, if I can garner enough successes above your resistance stat, you will never resist the effect...

Course, I could remember wrongly, but I do not think so... this was a favored tactic of our Mage in 3rd Edition...

Keep the Faith

the camouflage spell still confuses me. i don't think force plays any part in it's mechanics.

Once again, you cannot have hits greater than the force of the spell. For the Camo spell:



So at a force 1, all you're doing is, at best, imposing a single -1 penalty, no matter how many hits you score on your Spellcasting test.

There are likely one or two spells kicking around that force isn't important on. Just peeking over a few other spells in Street Magic, Nutrition is one. Additional hits provide a higher quality "meal", but for game purposes, that's pure flavor (literally and figuratively) and doesn't really matter beyond RP purposes. Healthy Glow is another that net hits are mostly an RP thing.

But most spells are either resisted, grant penalties or bonuses, or have a threshold. And all of these are subject to at leasta minimum Force to be useful.

Bull,

We're talking about SR3 spells here... thats an SR4 descripition of Camoflage.

Oh, well, hell... Why the hell we talking SR3?

Yeah, SR3 had a bunch of "exceptions".

I'll shut up now

Because I'm old-school and it was my OP...

Call me crazy, but I don't see any reason to spend a couple hundred to update to SR4. Plus a little bit of my network technician soul dies every time I see it implied that wireless is more reliable/fast than a full fiber infrastructure.

Of course SR3 era Matrix architecture resembles TCP/IP rather than Neuromancer phone phreaking at my table.

I'll shut up now before I trigger an edition war.

Thanks again folks. My question is answered. Now to generate those session logs and post them. Everyone loves session logs... Right?

All good man. I just somehow spaced on the fact we were talking SR3 only. Doh

Go for it