I may be undergoing buyer's remorse. For my first character, I picked a GMC Bulldog; solid, reliable, good to shelter the team or haul around large/heavy things. Since he was a former tank driver, when I modded the thing up, I may have taken the tank analogy too far: Six more points of standard (not hidden) armor, two gun ports (right and left), full set of run-flats, equipped for rigging. The only nod to 'stealth' is a changeable license plate.
Too blatant and obvious to be taken on runs?
Full Version: Urban Tank
Depends, are you playing in a "Pink Mohawk" world or an "Ice Cold Pro" one?
Ravor: Judging by the first run with this character a couple weeks back, the GM appears to be leaning towards ice cold pro. Especially after pointed comments regarding my character's appearance.
You're screwed.
- J.
- J.
QUOTE (The Jake @ Jul 29 2009, 09:38 PM) 
You're screwed.
- J.
- J.
Ah, well. Live and learn. Well, learn, anyway. Leastwise it will significantly change how the thing looks if I rustle up a chop-shop with a good street rep and have them strip the extra armor off.
QUOTE (TeknoDragon @ Jul 29 2009, 10:46 PM)
Ah, well. Live and learn. Well, learn, anyway. Leastwise it will significantly change how the thing looks if I rustle up a chop-shop with a good street rep and have them strip the extra armor off.
Or make the armor a little less obvious. I would also hide the guns.
Go down and take Seattle with you. Don't let your GM spoile your fun. Sureyou might not last long but you'll rememmber the trail of distruction.
While some think trail of destruction, I think hours of vehicle combat rolls.
Nothing says I love my gm then coming up with a fully armroed Jackrabbit with hidden MGL 6's moded to burst fire
Coem on, you know you want to drive it.
mmm I need that for atlanta coem to think of it.
Coem on, you know you want to drive it.
mmm I need that for atlanta coem to think of it.
QUOTE
While some think trail of destruction, I think hours of vehicle combat rolls.
Agreed. The SR4 and SR4A vehicle rules suck shit-dipped balls. I couldn't sit through another session that was vehicle-focussed - it's even less appealing to me than "Hacker-run" sessions.
QUOTE (TeknoDragon @ Jul 29 2009, 07:46 PM)
Ah, well. Live and learn. Well, learn, anyway. Leastwise it will significantly change how the thing looks if I rustle up a chop-shop with a good street rep and have them strip the extra armor off.
Why don't you see if he'll let you have a do-over. If like you said, its your first character and a new campaign then you can't be expected to be psychic and know the style of game that the GM was planning on running. Why don't you ask him if you can take the money you spent on the bulldog and 'reinvest' it in something more campaign appropriate.
My favorite 'black' car is a Murcury Comet with a Morphing Plate, Spoof Chip, Runflats,
This clocks in at
(5000 less than a stock bulldog) availability 12 and although it won't be able to shrug off anti tank rounds it should be more than adequate against smallarms and between the morphing plate, spoof chip and grid link override you should be able to shake all but the most dedicated pursuit. If you feel like going crazy, an extra ten grand will get you Chameleon coating too. If your GM is feeling particularly nice (and you bought him some good beer) then you could substitute the Comet for a Chrysler Nissan Patrol (re-fluff it as a high end touring sedan like a Audi A6 or Mercedes E Class) with the engines souped up to redline at 210. That'll up the price to
QUOTE (imperialus @ Jul 30 2009, 09:36 AM)
Why don't you see if he'll let you have a do-over. If like you said, its your first character and a new campaign then you can't be expected to be psychic and know the style of game that the GM was planning on running. Why don't you ask him if you can take the money you spent on the bulldog and 'reinvest' it in something more campaign appropriate.
My favorite 'black' car is a Murcury Comet with a Morphing Plate, Spoof Chip, Runflats, 6 points of Concealed Armour, Increased Speed to 130, Increase Accel to 18/36, Drive By Wire Override, and Grid Link Override.
This clocks in at 36000 (1000 more than a stock bulldog) availability 12 and although it won't be able to shrug off anti tank rounds it should be more than adequate against smallarms and between the morphing plate, spoof chip and grid link override you should be able to shake all but the most dedicated pursuit. If you feel like going crazy, an extra ten grand will get you Chameleon coating too.
If your GM is feeling particularly nice (and you bought him some good beer) then you could substitute the Comet for a Chrysler Nissan Patrol (re-fluff it as a high end touring sedan like a Audi A6 or Mercedes E Class) with the engines souped up to redline at 210. That'll up the price to 44200 but it'll be able to outrun anything short of Westwind and have a total armour value of 16 which means it could conceivably shrug off an RPG shot and keep going.
My favorite 'black' car is a Murcury Comet with a Morphing Plate, Spoof Chip, Runflats, 6 points of Concealed Armour, Increased Speed to 130, Increase Accel to 18/36, Drive By Wire Override, and Grid Link Override.
This clocks in at 36000
(1000 more than a stock bulldog) availability 12 and although it won't be able to shrug off anti tank rounds it should be more than adequate against smallarms and between the morphing plate, spoof chip and grid link override you should be able to shake all but the most dedicated pursuit. If you feel like going crazy, an extra ten grand will get you Chameleon coating too. If your GM is feeling particularly nice (and you bought him some good beer) then you could substitute the Comet for a Chrysler Nissan Patrol (re-fluff it as a high end touring sedan like a Audi A6 or Mercedes E Class) with the engines souped up to redline at 210. That'll up the price to 44200 but it'll be able to outrun anything short of Westwind and have a total armour value of 16 which means it could conceivably shrug off an RPG shot and keep going.
..My "black" car: Compact SUV car (stats and price like Thundercloud Morgan w/o weapon mount), Concealed Armor 16, Morphing
Plates,Spoof Chip, (look-alike RL Suzuki Compact SUV), (took about 26k) I really liked to get more but nyen run out..for now..
I hate to break it for you, but there is no such thing as concealed armor 16. You can have a maximum of 10 points of concealed armor. If you want more, you have to take the regular, obvious kind.
QUOTE
Too blatant and obvious to be taken on runs?
Not if it's an H&K Urban Tank ^^
QUOTE (Cadmus @ Jul 30 2009, 03:51 PM)
Nothing says I love my gm then coming up with a fully armroed Jackrabbit with hidden MGL 6's moded to burst fire
Nothing says leave me the fuck alone to my GM than the Honda Spirit with 100kg of ANFO under the back seat. For what's about 4BP's at character creation, not only can you get military grade respect, but also renovate a large building.
Suppose you could also drive it... but it is a honda, no self respecting man is going to be seen in one unless they're still living at home or to uni.
QUOTE (Dragnar @ Jul 30 2009, 04:11 PM)
I hate to break it for you, but there is no such thing as concealed armor 16. You can have a maximum of 10 points of concealed armor. If you want more, you have to take the regular, obvious kind.
Arsenal p.133.
Concealed (Rating 1-20), max 10 for concealed armor is for drones..
QUOTE (Stingray @ Jul 30 2009, 03:20 PM)
Arsenal p.133.
Concealed (Rating 1-20)
Concealed (Rating 1-20)
Believing the compiled tables? You're new to Shadowrun, aren't you?
That one's wrong, like quite some others. Read the text describtion.
QUOTE (Arsenal, page 132)
The maximum armor rating of each armor type a vehicle can have is twice its Body rating (or three times its Body rating for drones of the micro, mini, small, medium, and large size), up to a maximum of 20 with normal armor or 10 with concealed or smart armor
The only difference being a drone makes is the theoretical max of three times its body (otherwise drones couln't mount reasonable armor). The absolute max is the same.
[bait] I still think that the best urban tank is the 9K22 Tunguska. So the 30mm twin autocannons are a bit old. Nothing quite like a bit of irresponsible firing spree in a downtown Seattle mall. [/bait]
QUOTE (Dragnar @ Jul 30 2009, 06:11 AM)
I hate to break it for you, but there is no such thing as concealed armor 16. You can have a maximum of 10 points of concealed armor. If you want more, you have to take the regular, obvious kind.
Right you are... Guess what else I noticed when I re-read the armour rules:
QUOTE (arsenal p 133)
Note that the rating of the armor upgrade is not
cumulative with the basic armor value that most off -the-rack
vehicles are already equipped with. Instead, the modifi cation
assumes that the original armor is being stripped and replaced
with the new armor.
cumulative with the basic armor value that most off -the-rack
vehicles are already equipped with. Instead, the modifi cation
assumes that the original armor is being stripped and replaced
with the new armor.
That means that you can't improve the armour beyond its 'off the rack' rating of 6 at chargen (10 for the Patrol Car).
Forget about subtlety. Take the van in and add a ram plate and jump jets. For those times when you feel like parking upstairs.
QUOTE (otakusensei @ Jul 30 2009, 08:39 AM)
Forget about subtlety. Take the van in and add a ram plate and jump jets. For those times when you feel like parking upstairs.
That reminds me of a pink mowhawk ride that we came up with once in a 3rd ed game.
It was called the Car-battoir. A pink Cadillac convertible with increased armour, a pair of vengance mini guns under the hood, a supercharger, flames shooting out the sides and a button that caused a blade to slice across the knees of whoever was in the backseat severing their legs. They would be cauterized by a flamethrower hidden under the drivers seat.
There was also the Celestial Harmony Wagon. A chopped down, uparmoured hummer with a special muffler to make louder 'vroom vroom' noises, and ruthenium hubcaps that flashed through the chinese zodiac symbols. It also had a hottub in the back with machine gun mount so you could take potshots at things while relaxing in the tub. The entire campaign ended up centering around that bloody truck after a couple of Triad gangbangers scratched the paint, setting off a cycle of vengance that culminated in our pushing a fuel air bomb out of the back of a cargo plane onto a Triad warehouse (and the surrounding block). It's a pity the campaign ended then because our next step would have been to release some 'found' bioweapons into their headquarters which just so happened to be in downtown Hong Kong.
It's entirely plausible to use your obviously armoured van. It's simple fact that the streets of 2070 are more violent than today, so secure courier services are going to be more common. Now, an obviously armoured van is a little unusual, but not excessively - someone has to cater to the very high security market. Get uniforms and paint it up like a corp van.
QUOTE (Chrysalis @ Jul 30 2009, 08:32 AM)
[bait] I still think that the best urban tank is the 9K22 Tunguska. So the 30mm twin autocannons are a bit old. Nothing quite like a bit of irresponsible firing spree in a downtown Seattle mall. [/bait]
Chrysalis, some things never go out of style. Especially things rated in multiple tens of millimeters of bullet diameter. Now, what kind of ammunition? APDS? 30mm explosive rounds? Big, nasty chunks of depleted uranium?
Considering some of the other high-speed vehicles about, might want a high-capacity, high cyclic rate launcher of the guided, rocket-propelled type.
At this point, I'm restraining myself from digging through Bolo books for ideas...
QUOTE (Heath Robinson @ Jul 30 2009, 09:08 AM)
It's entirely plausible to use your obviously armoured van. It's simple fact that the streets of 2070 are more violent than today, so secure courier services are going to be more common. Now, an obviously armoured van is a little unusual, but not excessively - someone has to cater to the very high security market. Get uniforms and paint it up like a corp van.
Or better yet, get chameleon paint so you can change the apparent delivery company with the push of a button.
QUOTE (imperialus @ Jul 30 2009, 09:57 AM)
Right you are... Guess what else I noticed when I re-read the armour rules:
That means that you can't improve the armour beyond its 'off the rack' rating of 6 at chargen (10 for the Patrol Car).
That means that you can't improve the armour beyond its 'off the rack' rating of 6 at chargen (10 for the Patrol Car).
Well, I'll be. Guess I'll have to re-allocate the
spent on the 'upgrade' on something else for the vehicle. I feel better now, as my mis-reading of the armor upgrades led to a Bulldog with Armor 14. Glad you folks are good at catching the newbie mistakes I've made.
QUOTE (TeknoDragon @ Jul 30 2009, 09:18 AM)
Well, I'll be. Guess I'll have to re-allocate the spent on the 'upgrade' on something else for the vehicle. I feel better now, as my mis-reading of the armor upgrades led to a Bulldog with Armor 14. Glad you folks are good at catching the newbie mistakes I've made.
spent on the 'upgrade' on something else for the vehicle. I feel better now, as my mis-reading of the armor upgrades led to a Bulldog with Armor 14. Glad you folks are good at catching the newbie mistakes I've made.Hey, I've been playing Shadowrun since the mid 90's and I missed that one.
QUOTE (imperialus @ Jul 30 2009, 12:36 AM)
Increase Accel to 18/36
Almost never do that. Turbo-boosting gives a greater yield in nearly every vehicle, except air vehicles.
QUOTE (otakusensei @ Jul 30 2009, 06:39 PM)
Forget about subtlety. Take the van in and add a ram plate and jump jets. For those times when you feel like parking upstairs.
Subtlety and Style: Rover 2068 (Body 13 and Armor 10) Only 25000 yen
add Spoof Chip, Morphing Plates..Better,faster and cheaper than Bulldog van having Body 16, Armor 8
QUOTE (Stingray @ Jul 30 2009, 12:47 PM)
Subtlety and Style: Rover 2068 (Body 13 and Armor 10) Only 25000 yen
add Spoof Chip, Morphing Plates..Better,faster and cheaper than Bulldog van having Body 16, Armor 8
add Spoof Chip, Morphing Plates..Better,faster and cheaper than Bulldog van having Body 16, Armor 8
One problem with the Rover over the Bulldog: Windows. Sure they're tinted and all, but all it takes is someone seeing through the tinting enough to see the scary, heavily armed people inside to go running and hit the PANICBUTTON and have the Star show up in five minutes or your first bullet-wound is free!
GMC Bulldog/Hermes rolls up to an alleyway, deploys a GMC Sandal drone, and no one is going to think about that van for hours, even if they saw it on the security cameras. Takes a long time for a drone to get through security due to bomb sniffers and all that. No windows for sneaky kids to look into, either.
Or just kiss subtlety good-bye and drive up in a Tata Hotspur.
My group did a getaway from Disneyland after Extracting Goofy in a 2070 Land Rover Impulse, and that made for great footage as the Disneyland Securities Armed 2068 Jaguar Interceptors gave chase on the highways of LA!
QUOTE (CanRay @ Jul 30 2009, 07:05 PM)
One problem with the Rover over the Bulldog: Windows. Sure they're tinted and all, but all it takes is someone seeing through the tinting enough to see the scary, heavily armed people inside to go running and hit the PANICBUTTON and have the Star show up in five minutes or your first bullet-wound is free!
Solved by Full-Tint windows with some Image Link modifications. The Tech exists, the Neo-Anarchs Guide to Real Life tells me so
OK, that would work then. Just have a nice happy family sitting in the SUV, then surprise everyone when the ShadowTeam comes out. 
Guess I'm just too used to my group getting Pedovans in anticipation of things going wrong. Windows are easier to shoot out than van walls.
...
Unless the Assault Cannons come out, then you're just fifteen kinds of jammed. With a baseball bat. Sideways.
Guess I'm just too used to my group getting Pedovans in anticipation of things going wrong. Windows are easier to shoot out than van walls.
...
Unless the Assault Cannons come out, then you're just fifteen kinds of jammed. With a baseball bat. Sideways.
QUOTE (CodeBreaker @ Jul 30 2009, 09:13 PM)
Solved by Full-Tint windows with some Image Link modifications. The Tech exists, the Neo-Anarchs Guide to Real Life tells me so
..one way reflective windows..
QUOTE
Forget about subtlety. Take the van in and add a ram plate and jump jets. For those times when you feel like parking upstairs.
Knight Rider with the A-Team-Van . . i like it ^^
QUOTE (Stingray @ Jul 30 2009, 07:18 PM)
..one way reflective windows..
That too :3
QUOTE (CanRay @ Jul 30 2009, 07:05 PM)
One problem with the Rover over the Bulldog: Windows. Sure they're tinted and all, but all it takes is someone seeing through the tinting enough to see the scary, heavily armed people inside to go running and hit the PANICBUTTON and have the Star show up in five minutes or your first bullet-wound is free!
Vehicles more regularly have tinted, or tintable windows thanks to Mages. That's one good thing that Mages have done for the world.
One.
QUOTE (imperialus @ Jul 30 2009, 03:57 PM)
Right you are... Guess what else I noticed when I re-read the armour rules:
Note that the rating of the armor upgrade is not
cumulative with the basic armor value that most off -the-rack
vehicles are already equipped with. Instead, the modifi cation
assumes that the original armor is being stripped and replaced
with the new armor.
That means that you can't improve the armour beyond its 'off the rack' rating of 6 at chargen (10 for the Patrol Car).
QUOTE
Note that the rating of the armor upgrade is not
cumulative with the basic armor value that most off -the-rack
vehicles are already equipped with. Instead, the modifi cation
assumes that the original armor is being stripped and replaced
with the new armor.
That means that you can't improve the armour beyond its 'off the rack' rating of 6 at chargen (10 for the Patrol Car).
Sorry but did I miss something here?
I don't see the connection between the start and end of the last sentence.
QUOTE (crizh @ Jul 30 2009, 02:22 PM)
That means that you can't improve the armour beyond its 'off the rack' rating of 6 at chargen (10 for the Patrol Car).
Sorry but did I miss something here?
I don't see the connection between the start and end of the last sentence.
Sorry but did I miss something here?
I don't see the connection between the start and end of the last sentence.
Hrmm, I'm not sure. To me, this sounds like it's simply saying you can'ts tack the armor mod on top of the default armor. So if it has 6 armor, and you want armor of 10, you have to remove the 6, and replace it with the 10 (Meaning you pay for 10, not 4). It also means that if the cap for regular, non concealable armor is 20, you can't "Stack" that on top of the original 6, for 26.
That's how I read it anyways.
I read it like Bull did. You don't add additional armour that you put on a vehicle to its standard one, it replaces it completly.
QUOTE (Heath Robinson @ Jul 30 2009, 01:21 PM)
Vehicles more regularly have tinted, or tintable windows thanks to Mages. That's one good thing that Mages have done for the world.
One.
One.
I think the term you guys are looking for is "polarized", which means 1-way only. I mean, better than the 1-way glass we have currently. And all windows have this option at no additional cost.
QUOTE (Bull Posted Today, 03:26 PM )
Hrmm, I'm not sure. To me, this sounds like it's simply saying you can'ts tack the armor mod on top of the default armor. So if it has 6 armor, and you want armor of 10, you have to remove the 6, and replace it with the 10 (Meaning you pay for 10, not 4). It also means that if the cap for regular, non concealable armor is 20, you can't "Stack" that on top of the original 6, for 26.
That's how it is read.
QUOTE (Neraph @ Jul 31 2009, 05:15 AM)
I think the term you guys are looking for is "polarized", which means 1-way only. I mean, better than the 1-way glass we have currently. And all windows have this option at no additional cost.
Polarised mean that they do not permit light which does not have a corresponding polarisation to pass through. They are bi-directional, though. You can turn a polarising filter around and nothing changes. I've done this in real life.
One way glass works by reflecting more light from things in front of it than letting through light from behind it. This is why viewing boothes for one-way glass are never lit during use. Tinted glass works as one-way glass during the day - the sun is significantly brighter than the lights inside. During the night, however, the interior must not be lit to gain the same effect.
QUOTE (TeknoDragon @ Jul 30 2009, 06:13 PM)
Chrysalis, some things never go out of style. Especially things rated in multiple tens of millimeters of bullet diameter. Now, what kind of ammunition? APDS? 30mm explosive rounds? Big, nasty chunks of depleted uranium?
Considering some of the other high-speed vehicles about, might want a high-capacity, high cyclic rate launcher of the guided, rocket-propelled type.
At this point, I'm restraining myself from digging through Bolo books for ideas...
Considering some of the other high-speed vehicles about, might want a high-capacity, high cyclic rate launcher of the guided, rocket-propelled type.
At this point, I'm restraining myself from digging through Bolo books for ideas...
Well the Tunguska comes with missile magazines, so anti-vehicle missiles. What I was thinking is a nice mix APDS and depleted uranium. After all, the modern version takes three people to operate, with 2070 modernisation, you could have one and replace the additional crew space with more ammunition and autoloading magazines.
QUOTE (Chrysalis @ Jul 31 2009, 03:28 PM)
Well the Tunguska comes with missile magazines. What I was thinking is a nice mix APDS and depleted uranium. After all, the modern version takes three people to operate, with 2070 modernisation, you could have one and replace the additional crew space with more ammunition and autoloading magazines.
One person? Hell, it'd take one person to operate a platoon of them, and most of his job would be issue the fire confirmation on each individual target tracked.
QUOTE (CanRay @ Jul 30 2009, 12:16 PM)
Guess I'm just too used to my group getting Pedovans in anticipation of things going wrong. Windows are easier to shoot out than van walls.
Not in SR. Armor is armor is armor.
QUOTE (DWC @ Jul 31 2009, 10:32 PM)
One person? Hell, it'd take one person to operate a platoon of them, and most of his job would be issue the fire confirmation on each individual target tracked.
I never did like Abercrombie&Finch. Next the GAP store. I mean how many people come into a shopping mall with an anti-tank missile?
QUOTE (Chrysalis @ Jul 31 2009, 04:14 PM)
I never did like Abercrombie&Finch. Next the GAP store. I mean how many people come into a shopping mall with an anti-tank missile?
I don't know, how many of the people on here run PCs? And how many PCs are those?
I bet the answer would be pretty close.
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