With the experiences in Basic Training, what is a good skill set for a washed out UCAS soldier? Post-MOS school, what skill set is appropriate for the different focuses?

We have enough vets and active duty to make this happen. Setting them up like PACKS earns extra points.

there's a lot of stuff that just doesn't have a SR crossover, or if it does .. it's in that *other* book ... am I allowed to invoke its name ?

like morale checks / gut checks, for when the DI is screaming in your face and you need to resist the urge to wipe the spittle from your chin.

and where does endless polishing of brass, and cleaning of boots and painting grass greeen and gluing leaves onto trees fall?

and it's not so much Running that's important as is "not stopping!" I can't even see a "Crawling through mud for no good reason!" skill
___________

Can you tell I really enjoyed my time

Shadowrun Logistics Trains: "Calling more than your Fixer and visiting the Crime Mall"

Discuss.

If you need a supply train, you're no longer a "Shadowrunner", I'd say.

~Umi

USMC Basic Training
Unarmed 2, Edged Weapons (Bayonet) 1 (+2)
Pistols 2, Longarms 3
Survival 1
First Aid 1
Etiquette (Military) 1 (+2)

Thoughts?

The Air Force stole them from us.



From a general/army point of view:
Firearms Group
Heavy Weapons
Gunnery
Athletics (At the highest rank you can fit in!)
First Aid (Combat Wounds +2)
Unarmed Combat (Grappling +2)(Fairly low rank for most)
Leadership (If character was commissioned or e5+)
Outdoors (Fairly low for most, very high for combat arms or intelligence types)

As for specialties, it starts getting extremely broad. For Navy, Air Force, and Army, (Don't know a single thing about Marines.) there are just a huge range of careers available, from cook to mechanic to avionic technician to printer repair.

Maybe make that into PACKS supplements? With associated Karma cost?

I'll check what the former Army officer in SR1 had for skills. After all, neither UCAS nor CAS have anything near today's US army.

USMC Basic Training -- 48 BP or 50 Karma
Unarmed 2, Edged Weapons (Bayonet) 1 (+2)
Pistols 2, Longarms 3
Survival 1
First Aid 1
Etiquette (Military) 1 (+2)

(I don't normally do Karmagen so my math might be a little off. Used the Karma cost table from SR4A, p 270)

Do you guys think that, with the advancement of UV nodes, the Marines boot camp times would be reduced at all from the current 13 weeks? What kind of 'ware, if any, do you think would be standard issue?


No. Pistols is not covered in Boot - it's only granted by specific MOS's.

During boot camp there's also classes on camouflage, cover, and concealment, and during the whole Crucible the recruits are required to wear camo paint, so Disguise 1/Infiltration 1 may be in order. First Aid 1 (Combat Wounds) or something would be closer to it, as we learned how to treat sucking chest wounds, chemical burns, and open fractures in addition to heat injuries and a few other things. I'd say Longarms 1 or 2 (Assault Rifles) would also be closer, as we fired the M16A4 rifle exclusively. In SOI (School of Infantry) they branch out to other weapons, but simply in boot it was just the M16A4. Clubs 1 (Rifle Butt) would also fit, as MCMAP teaches bayonet movements that also include the rifle stock. In fact there are more rifle butt moves (3) than bayonet (2, 3 if you count a disrupt) in Boot.

I remember being told that Basic & AIT costs somewhere around $50,000 per soldier. That was in the early 80s, probably $250K these days. So putting in Wired 1 or 2 wouldn't be out of line. The main issue a real military would have is that EMP is something they are seriously concerned with, and it would seem difficult to protect those kind of distributed and very low energy systems. So Bioware?

Build a bit of an EMP shield into the soldier's uniform ...?

Honestly, I'm a little confused why anybody uses real people for soldiers in shadowrun anyway. A decked out combat drone with weapons* and fully upgraded software will run you about 150k, including ECCM and an EW agent program. This hits harder and moves faster than any soldier. If you have a drone rigger off site controlling platoon-sized elements...

The argument for humans on the battlefield would come down to individual initiative... but I don't see board room execs valuing that high enough to justify the increased cost.

If it takes $50,000 to train a soldier, another 50,000 to equip them (Estimate, including combat armor, ammo, battle rifle, uniforms...), and then monthly salaries, benefits, death gratuities (current day $400,000)...
Assuming a soldier doesn't die, there's a cost to the entity of:
96,000 wages (four year contract)
~ 74,000 benefits
50,000 training
You're looking at 220,000 (1.46 drones!) BEFORE equipping the soldier, transferring them to the combat zone, or offering incentive pay for dangerous missions. And even after all that... they're walking somewhere unless you start spending millions more to give them a vehicle.

*Based on my own runner's MCT-Nissan Hellcat with autocannon and AT missiles. Could go way cheaper if you use say... a Lynx as the chassis, but I see the execs approving the budget swayed more by the idea of a literal army of winged missile-toting terror.

Edit: And think of the PR! "Not only has Mitsuhama completely crushed the INSERT BAD GUYS HERE, we did it without losing a single life on our end. Sign up today!"
Edit x2: It'll also certainly help when Sirrurg shows up to kill all the life force in your army base. No people to drain here you mean dragon, just depleted uranium and propellant.

Part of the problem is that prices in SR are absurd. In both directions.

No. Because, with a budget rivaling that of, maybe, Ukraine, the army simply copuld not afford this. The UCAS or CAS are NOT the USA, and they do not have anywhere near the military power the US has. They are bitter, broken remnants of a once-proud superpower (and a neighbouring country; very small remnants in that case). They are NOT said superpower. Marines boot camp probably hasn't improved much at all, but everything's horribly run down.

As for ware, the writeups of Marines in previous books suggest "not much", and most probably comes with a payment plan, because removing cyber eyes, ears, or limbs upon discharge probably is a bit harsh. The NCO in Sprawl Sites has a Datajack, Headware Memory, and a Smartlink, and that's it. Brainscan stats grund soldiers ("UCAS Army grunt") with no cyber at all, "cybered UCAS Army Soldiers" with plastic bone lacing, level 2 wired, flare compensation (retinal mod) level 2 muscle replacement, and a smartlink, and UCAS Army Riggers with a VCR 2, datajack, and smartlink again.

Going from there, Smartlink seems like a safe bet for above-grunt level troops. Possibly other retina mods as well, maybe even bargain cybereyes. Other than that, they'Re far below 'runners cyber-wise. I'd say they'd use standard cybernetics, probably bulk-bought from the lowest bidder, so no big brands, unless a Mega feels charitable. In Just Compensation, the UCAs army buys across the board, Aztech, Telestrian, and Ares, on a lowest bidder basis.

Drones can be hacked. Metahumans, less so.

Real armies are finding that out the hard war these days, too.

Exactly. While it's easier to bribe, fool, or blackmail a Metahuman, they still have some ability to possibly pull the "Big Red Button" and raise an alarm.

Drones? "Be as faithful as a puppy."

Mob Mind (SR4a 210)
The caster can give individuals orders with a simple action (each), or the group a single order with a single simple action.

Not to say there aren't defenses, but the same is true for hacking! It's also a lot less demoralizing if a drone watches a drone explode or turn on its allies, but a soldier watching friends die, or worse having a friend shoot at him?

Needs Line of Sight, can be countered by a mage on overwatch or a spirit. Oh, and needs the OpFor to have a compent mage they want to risk by putting them on the font lines.


If a friendly drone firebombs a unit, the effect should be the same.

Mages are rarer than Decker/Hacker/Deckers.

Or a drone carrying a reeaaaaaaally long fiber optic cable. ...or, as it's a mana spell, they can be astral with spirit protection going the same speed as the drones!

Situation 1: Traditional force on force engagement. Drones detect OPFOR miles and miles out. Rigger gives command: Engage, RTB. Accept no new commands until RTB, turn off wireless. Follow tacsoft for further guidance.
Situation 2: Sustainment operations after taking city. Mages patrol streets astrally with Steel Lynx and spirit escort casting "detect thoughts" constantly. Anyone found to be planning anti-Skynet actions is immediately disintegrated by autocannon.

I still think that despite the risks (and in war there will always be some), the drones with occasional technomancer/rigger/magical support come out ahead of meatbodies.



But there are no friendly units to the drone! Just more drones!
Edit: And while it would certainly upsetting if you car tried to kill you, I wouldn't rank that anywhere near if your best friend Bob suddenly walks into your tent/CHU and shoots you in the kneecaps. Not to kill you, but just to maim and then off himself so that the story spreads around camp, spreading mistrust and fear. Neither of which effect drones.

I'd be more upset if my Kaff machine tried to kill me, personally.

Rule of cool/style over substance/military conservatism/genre tropes, all bundled up into one tangle of reasons.

Funny, it seems like planes > shooters to me, in terms of terror. Just saying. And you seem to be assuming the standard Shadowrun army is Skynet, which ... makes no sense, especially since Shadowrun has a certain history with robot apocalypses.


Also, expediency and availability. Most militaries actually cannot afford all the latest tech because there's really only one country who throws enough money at it's military for that doctrine,a nd that country doesn't exist in Shadowrun. Usually, you fight wars not with the army you want but with the army you have. Which, in many cases, is basically peasants with rusty guns. that'S the global norm. The US military is a one-of-a-kind exception due to very specific cultutal and economic conditions. Don't assume it's anywhere near what is normal in terms of warfare.

For the first part. Again, my hypothetical army doesn't have anybody who could be terrified, so it doesn't matter if a drone going crazy is scary or not because the only people are astral mages (safe) and riggers on other continents. (Also safe.) Furthermore... I'm not assuming this is the current trend. I'm asking why it isn't. Hermit... please let me know where the breakdown in communication is, because it seems I'm either doing a horrible job conveying what I want to, or you're just skimming my posts and then being condescending towards me about it.

So, let me try again.
1) Drones are cheaper than training people, both short term and especially long term. If you are going to train anybody new, it is cheaper to buy a cutting edge drone.
2) This methodology actually fixes a lot of logistics problems, in part due to being far cheaper.
3) The PR is better.
4) A drone army is no more vulnerable than a standing army of meaty people, just in different but equally counterable ways.
5) All prices for the drones have been retail, versus in house expenditures for the trained soldiers - a corp that actually manufactures the software or hardware will have an even greater reward this way.
6) Since you buy cutting edge drones each recruitment cycle, your army stays fresh with a patch download, as opposed to continually upgrading units and providing new training.

This does not address Rule of cool / style / tropes.

Drones don't give you magic.

Point taken.

I'm amending my statement: "Why don't shadowrun armies utilize an overwhelming majority of drone combatants, with rigger/spider/technomancer/mage/spirit support as needed?" or "Why don't Shadowrun armies, who retain their specialized support, replace your basic grunt infantryman and combat vehicles with drones?"

Because military training in SR is nowhere near the level of training/cost that the United States pours into its people. You can outfit a basic grunt in the 2070's for next to nothing, and training is likely to be rudimentary at best (peasants with cheap knockoffs). It is not until you get to veteran and elite levels of training that will you see anything comparable to what the US spends upon their soldiers on a routine basis (and it is still likely to be far less in expenditres than it is today), and those units in SR will NOT be Battalion/RCT/Division sized for the most part. They cannot afford such things (Something that Hermit commented upon already).

Add to that the fact that simsense software can allow for a lot of additional training benefits. Skillwires can give you soldiers that are Swiss Army Knives. And, finally, there's a lot of tradition involved in having "People in the loop" with the military if nothing else.

It's easier to break laws than it is tradition.

More importantly, all prices for Drones in SR$, are for single-unit purchases. I guarantee you, if a nation or corporation elected to buy, say, twenty thousand of the same drone, then the total price would be significantly less than 20,000 times the single-unit price.

and despite that, you end up with a droid army that is more likely to shoot itself in the arse than it is to be a significant threat.

Grunts are and always will be a requirement, for the simple ability to make snap decisions when there are no orders .. rather than go into low power standby or keep patrolling an area ad infinitum.

plus Grunts are cheap to breed, conscription in the absolute worst case

But Shadowrun only gives acquisition cost for gear, and never ever mention any maintenance cost (or time). Fuel or charging units, spare parts, labor and all the logistics associated would need to be factored in. Gear does break in the field.

In real life, you also would have actual issues for communicating with your drones fleet. By luck, SR is a magical world where hidden mode is enough to make almost invisible to emission detection, standard ECCM software can defeat any jamming, and satcom have unlimited bandwith even for real-time virtual reality, no matter what the meteorological conditions are (without a satellite antenna, the 4 kilometers range you get from Device Rating 5 would be a tad short for combat situations - 10 km if you upgrade Signal to 6 would be a more adequate).

I doubt the ratings for wars would be as high without blood, too.

MilSpec Pilot, R6.

Fuzzy Logic drone upgrade.

Adaptability autosoft, R3 (or better, a milspec one at R6).

... yeah, this sucker is going to be better at "snap decisions" than your typical soldier.

Even just Pilot 4, Fuzzy Logic firmware, and Adaptability 3, that's a DP of 8 to "figure out" anything unexpected - without a rigger riding herd remotely.


Drones don't need to be fed, housed, or paid. They don't collect veteran's benefits, they don't suffer battle fatigue, and they never sleep. And they don't complain or hesitate when ordered to undertake a suicide mission, or do something distasteful (including outright war crimes).

Wait wait wait... Veterans have benefits?

COST. Also, rules say IMPOSSIBLE. No rating 6 pilot in rating 3 drones, because at best you can upgrade to 5. And I think you really overestimate fuzzy logic. Plus, enemy hackers. And EMP. And DEUS.


With Shadowrun's ridiculously low prices for military hardware, I highly doubt there will be much room for bulk discounts. It's a mystery to me already how the corps that developed these ever get even selling them in fire sales like they apparently do. And a soldier is highly versatile and can do demolitions, set booby traps, climb, swim, change outfit at nearly a moment's notice and even strip enemy combatants of equipment. They can also refuel themselves usally, where drones need to plug into a maintainance unit to recharge or need to refill their tank, and have (albeit limited) autorepair capabilities. A Steel Lynx can traverse moderately rugged terrain and shoot, and that's that (it's a Dalek without anti-grav, basically). For the same flexibility in a solder, you need a much more expensive, highly modded anthroform drone or a host of different cheap drones.


Metahumans don't need expensive software to perform, they need no fuel and refueling stations (or rather, can forage their fuel on site most of the time), they autorepair, they only rarely get confused when given vague orders, can plot and assess a situation independently, and they can climb stairs.

Drones have batteries that run empty, cannot autorepair even moderately, and get confused fairly fast when given orders like "get to the next village and hole up there until evac arrives". Also, drones need to be maintained and stored, which in the end is just as expensive as a bunk, a latrine and cheap sloppy soy for human soldiers.


Because peasants with guns, a soldier personasoft with some decent skillsofts and skillwires give you nearly the same combat power for a fraction of the price? More combat power if the soldier happens to be an ork or troll. Add in combat drugs for a boost to drone-level speed and you're set.

Let's stat it out!


Ares TanDem Military
HAND +3, ACCEL 5/10, SPD 30, PILOT 5, BODY 3, ARM 12, SENS 3, AVAIL -, COST 58800¥/64070
Upgrades/Accessories: Autosofts (Clearsight, Targeting [Automatics], Adaptability, Defense, Maneuver [TanDem]) 4, Weapon Mount (external, flexible, remote: SCAR-H3+launcher[60*AV+6*HE]), mechanical arm (full), 1 clip (30*APDS), Matrix stats (5, 4, 5, 4), 1 clip (30*AV), grenades: 1 magazine (6*HE), 1 magazine (6*FlashBang)

Ork grunt

Agi 3, Log 3, Int 3, B6, A18/11, Cost 8200¥/24220, 500/3 months

I split between bare cost and geared up cost. Bare, you get about 9 orks for one drone's price, geared up it's down to 2.7 for one, but these orks will perform better individually than the drone will.

Drones lose.

The software might have ZERO cost. Military programmers exist, after all. So one master copy, installed separately on a million drones? Still only costs ONE COPY worth of money.


That "no more than +2" is a limit for HARDWARE - Response and Signal - not software. System/Pilot and Firewall are not limited. I can put an R4 pilot in an R1 drone, no problem. I can put R6 firewalls into any drone. The only "grey area" is whether or not "milspec" Pilot programs as high as R6 even exist - and amusingly, that's the only point you didn't argue with.


Actually, I underestimated it. I pegged it at +1 die - while RAW, it's +2 dice in combat, +3 dice otherwise.


All things that a bog-standard soldier with modern equipment are challenged by, too.

But .... while I could just say "Mislpec R10 firewall, Milspec R9 Analyze program, Milspec R9 Encryptionprogram, hardware EMP hardening" ...? I can nix ALL of those considerations with just two words:

Faraday and cage. Total, absolute immunity to outside EM radiation/signals when the antenna is retracted inside the "cage".


While I agree that SR's prices for military hardware are ludicrously low, at least for current stuff ... "economy of scale" applies at ALL steps of the chain. There would be a bulk discount for anyone able to afford thousands of uits in a single order.


Anthroform drone. With Chameleon Coating. And software appropriate to the mission at hand.

Oh, and um, "swim" ...? *shrug* Except out in the ocean, why swim when you can walk on the bottom?


.... but they can't fly.

Plus: gecko tips. Walker mode. Lots of answers to stairs out there.

I don't think an ENTIRE military would be ALL drones. But there's definitely room to replace metahumans in a LOT of roles. Pretty much the ENTIRE strike-fighter role, really.

Again, it works because SR is a silly world where a Maneuver autosoft has been developed once at some point and works for all ground, air or water vehicles. Even if the description itself mentions "a comprehensive guide to a drone's particular specs".

You always pay for the whole program cost. When you buy MS Windows or Office, you pay for a fraction of the development cost, calculated accordingly to expected sales to millions of customers. When you buy a military drone command & control software, you pay a far bigger fraction of the development cost, calculated accordingly to expected sales to between one an a dozen of customers.

Corporations are savvy enough to know that if they sell 10,000 drones and 1 program, the customer is going to make copies. There would be a single contract with a global cost, and provisions for huge penalties if the number of copies exceed a given number, or if non-proprietary software is ever installed on the drones, to be checked by corporate employees on a regular basis.
There is no such thing as single unit cost in military procurement.

That's not how it works. There would be a bulk discount for anyone able to afford more units in a single order than the average customer. When you're talking about a computer or a car, the average customer is someone who buy one at a time. If you're talking about military equipment, the average customer is someone who buy one hundreds to several thousands at a time. Assuming of course there is someone like an average customer and you're not the only one currently in negotiation.

Also no IFF. No positioning. No radar. No tacsoft or any kind of coordination between units. No transmission of data, video or audio information to command and no order sent back, outside of preprogrammed "windows of communication" (which need to be spaced enough to maintain such an electronic warfare immunity).

Military programmers aren't slaves. And a million drones still cost a lot more than a million orks. Also, since the corps hold IP rights on that software, the military programming it's own knock-offs of these programs might soon find itself before the Corp Court.

And that is assuming the UCAS military works like the US military does, which is fused with related industries into a hybrid being called military-industrial complex. News Flash: it doesn't Most militareis do NOT have attached industries for these purposes. That's why arms companies exist, you know. That's where megacorp programming subsidiaries make money. And that is why there is copyright protection as a program option in every legal program. Because that ensures this does nto happen. And as public actors, militaries have to play by the rules. They're not shadowrunners who could care less about laws, much as they might want to.


System is, because system may not be higher than response. Firewall is not. I did not see a reason to inflate firewall, since that gets real expensive beyongd 6, and we want a grunt, not a super special elite prototype video game character robot thing.


Drones still have dog intelligence, not human intelligence. THAT's where you make wrong assumptions. The drone gets +3 dice on interpreting orders and trying to deal with situations like "my target isn't where my map says it is". Things humans just navigate by default.

No, you just prove you don't understand how an economy and the setting work.


... and faraday cages. Or the rules.

This is total, absolute bullshit for drones, because that also means they are totally and absolutely impossible to control. Not to mention blind and deaf except for closest ranges. Plus, this is again a modification that eats mod slots in the drone. It has four. It can modify for four slots total. And that's that.


There is no mass market for stealth planes. It is in nobody relevant's interest that there can be enough opf a mass market for these. Why, do you think, doesn't the US lower the F-22's price tag by allowing Lockheed to sell them everywhere? China, Russia, Iran and North Korea sure would be very interested to buy them by bulk.


Mathematics. Price tag. Show me how this can be cheaper while providing comparable flexibility and durability as an ork. Also, why waste money on cameleon coating? everybody has IR vision anyway, and RuPo coating does shit about that. Try to think things through before you post a reply.


Because it'd need environmental seals to not break. Which cost money, and slots, both of which the drone cannot afford to waste.


Neither can anthroform drones?


I assumed an anthroform drone. Can you read?


Only if you assume the military in question has an infinite budget for the purpose of such planning. Which the US military may have, but the UCAS army, certainly not.

Yeah, "guide to a drone's particular specs". so you take that "Maneuver (Ground)", and you go into the settings/configuration menu. You tell it whether your vehicle is wheeled, tracked, track-and-ski, etc. How many axles it has, which ones are power, which ones have steering. Enter in the profile for your engine(s), the weight of the vehicle (dry AND loaded), and so on. IOW, the "particular specs" of that chassis' performance envelope.

You don't need completely different programs for a GAZ pickup versus a Ford Americar.

Also, I'm not talking about buying anything - there's no reason the military itself can't write their OWN programs. Especially for things like Pilot software, where they do NOT want anyone else knowing exactly how it works.


Visual target confirmation; cameras still work through a faraday cage. For that matter, so do lasers.


Inertial navigation. Visual navigation based on landmarks (I believe cruise missiles can do this, even now, IRL).


Laser comms, if there'll be a satellite or ground station in LOS to the unit.

Extend an antenna outside the cage for a microburst transmission, if not.

Alternately, physically drop a transmitter with the relevant data, that pops a parachute and waits a few seconds before turning on the radio.

As far as the Device Rating limits, remember there is the Modular Electronics modification, which eliminates the +2 limit.

Also, wait, there's riggers out there that DON'T use laser/microwave tight beam comms whenever possible?



-k

Nobody doubts this is theoretically possible. Whether it's finanscially feasibly is what we're debating.


Which costs money ... and so do the higher-rating parts ...

Damn these limits on quote blocks, anyway.

Part One:

Unless the basic chassis quickly becomes obsolete, the comparison should not be 1:1.

A drone chassis could be in service for 20 years, even 30, given a reasonable update schedule. In that time, it will be replacing not 1, not 2, but as many as (assuming each soldier serves an average of 5 years active duty) six metahumans. Not to mention, the drone may outlive the first ork it replaces, even without combat to consider.


How does anyone hold rights on software they had no hand in creating? Hmm?


.... it's assumign absolutely nothing, except that the people in charge aren't complete idiots.


Not for Pilot programs. Plenty of vehicles have Pilot programs that exceed their Device Rating.

Also, consider that military vehicles are DEvice Rating 5, so everything starts out already rated 5, if not otherwise specified.


Actually, Fuzzy Logic helps in all decision-making efforts.

So does the Adaptability software I mentioned - and that at least explicitly calls out "making autonomous decisions".



.... until they extend their antenna outside the cage. Or, if they're not flying/moving erratically ... laser link. Faraday cages don't stop light.


LIDAR. SONAR, for watercraft. Ultrasound at close range. Did I mention LIDAR ...?


Right. I takes two. Of the four above and beyond standard features, available to all drones. Oh dear me oh my.

Part Two:

Blah, blah, blah, blah. Weren't you just extolling that the UCAS and CAS militaries (and others in SR) don't work the way the U.S. military of today works?

Unless a military has an exclusivity clause in the contract to ground-up design a new drone or vehicle, SR militaries are in no position to block a multinational corporation, like say, Ares, from selling whatever they damned well please, to whoever they damned well please, at whatever price they damned well please.

Very much unlike how the U.S. military operates today.


Show me where I've said that drones would replace even INFANTRY.

AFVs? Strike aircraft? Perimeter patrol? Mine clearing? Reconnaissance? All perfectly suited for the use of Drones.

And yes, some use of drones in Infantry roles - as force multipliers. Heavy weapons platforms, supply haulers, "let the robotoy go through the door first", etc.



Someone mentioned "changing colors".


Okay, so your Marine variant forgoes the Electromagnetic Shielding (which the water itself renders pretty redundant anyway).



Your problem. I did no such thing. Seriously, why must "a robot army", mean "an army of HUMAN SHAPED robots" ...?

Steel Lynx. Off the shelf, with an off-the-shelf Ares MP-LMG (belt fed) and 500 rounds of regular ammunition. Add R6 Electromagnetic Shielding, Fuzzy Logic, and Gecko Tips (so it can navigate stairs). Nothing else, not even the uprated Pilot, Adaptability, etc. Just as-is.

22,300¥, fully loaded as a single-unit purchase; probably quite less if you buy half a million of them at once. Body 4, Armor 9; 13 dice to soak. Negligible recoil. 10 dice to attack.

Will serve for 20+ years, needing only repairs, mainenance (not covered in RAW), and re-ammunition. No salary, no health benefits, no morale upkeep. Housing can be an unheated, lightless BOX. Is not even capable of contemplating a change of career.

...

... how much does that Ork cost to train and equip? How much salary will she draw during 10 or 20 years of service? How much will her basic healthcare cost? How about morale maintenance? Housing, for them and their possible family ...? And what are the odds that she will serve without complaint nor even thought of not re-enlisting? She's not a slave, after all.

Then if you like, add the Pilot, Adaptability, and other software to taste.


It wouldn't take an infinite budget.

Part Three:

Sure. Can you ...?

Lose the Ad Hominems, please-and-thank-you.

Welcome back Neraph ! ... Look what you did !!

Let's break this down.

CAS spends 394,881 on each soldier.

Combat Drones cost <150,000

In conclusion:
Year one, it's more economical to get the soldier. However, it very rapidly switches over just after that 1.5 year mark. The money saved is then spent keeping the tech current and expanding the army, resulting in far greater combat effectiveness as a whole.

I'm going to be very disappointed if the rebuttal amounts to "nuh unh." (Yes I know somebody *coughCanRaycough* will now say just that out of spite! )

To be faire, as far as the rules go, you're left to wonder why and how corporations keep charging several thousand nuyen for programs that can be designed by any half-decent programmer with a programming suite in a few months. A handful of open source projects volunteers could have made the entire software industry collapses a long time ago.

Visual IFF between vehicles with ruthenium coating? Visual IFF between drones and infantry that will fire from cover, with only their weapon/turret and the muzzle flash visible? Visual IFF between air vehicles at several thousand feet and a ground unit inside a building?

The best inertial navigation system have an accuracy of about 200 meters, which makes it slightly unreliable in an urban environment. However, it's a drift over time. Correcting it every few minutes with a GPS point would be good enough. The problem I was referring to is rather the real-time positioning, that could have helped the IFF issue.

Satellite laser link is way outside the boundaries of technical feasibility, because of the power and precision required. With geostationary satellite, the distance requires incredible level of precision. With low-orbit satellites, it's the satellite movement. And either way, you also have the issue of having a beam coherent and/or powerful enough to reach the satellite. Assuming of course there is no cloud between the drone and the satellite. As far as I can tell, the technology doesn't show up in Shadowrun. If it did, then it would be equally feasible to blind the satellite (though again, as far as the rule are concerned, resisting jamming is ridiculously easy with ECCM program).

A ground station (or, as the US military is starting to consider, a blimp) is a lot more feasible. The first problem is a position that allow to maintain a line of sight with ground combat units is also going to be in line of sight for the enemy, and be a prime target.
Also, maintaining said line of sight is very difficult in an urban environment, which has become the dominant battlefield, and can be scrambled by rain, dust, and smokescreen. Rules limit range to 100 meters, and fog or smoke may interrupt it at the gamemaster's discretion (and the military generally anticipate that the gamemaster will be an asshole).

Unavoidable if you really want that faraday cage. This would however involve mechanical piece that will wear down. Also, you need to preprogram the interval at which the drone transmit, since he cannot receive a signal to order it.

This can work in some situation, and lead to complete failure in other, just like EMCON can be with human troops. If the tatical situation is well defined (tips: it never is), friendly fire risk is low, and the enemy has electronic warfare capability, EMCON is an option. If things are more complicated, like "high friendly fire risk" and "enemy EW capability," then the full drone option may not fit the bill.

Anyway, the enemy only need to catch up commend Access ID once to be able to spoof drones, going back to the question of how many dice do you roll.

It would work one way. That's actually how early reconnaissance satellite generation worked, because they couldn't get them back on Earth. A drone, on the other hand, should get home at some point by default, before running gout of fuel/battery. This option would have a limited use, only for a very specific case where critical intelligence needs to be retrieved before the mission is over and without the drone breaking EMCON. So including it in every drones, adding weight to them and thus fuel/battery consumption, is wasting money.

How do you mount an aoutocannon and a 4-tube missile launcher in non-reinforced weapon mounts?