Alright, the first three promising "interesting cyberware" threads I dredged up didn't address these, so here I go. I want a magician character with a full cyberarm. Perhaps that's a waste of essence, perhaps I just want it anyway. I mean, if things work out as I hope they do, I might end up with a character who can poke his hand around a corner 30 meters away and start firing off stunbolts. Not that I couldn't do the same thing with Mage Sight Goggles, but maybe I can avoid looking like a huge gaz. Here are some questions;
1a. Modular cyberlimb rules only seem to apply to people who have the Universal Cyberware Connector Plug. I don't want one of those, I just want my cyberarm to be able to launch its hand. How does that affect the cost of the limb?
1b. Does that affect the capacity of the limb?
1c. I can install things in the hand, right? I mean, in the description of the drone hand it says I cannot further modify it. Thus, since the description of the grapple hand has no such edict, I can modify it as a normal cyberhand, right?
2. I can install a cybereye in my meathand for as little as .1 essence. Can I install a cybereye in my cyberhand? I imagine it would take capacity. How much? If there is no indication of any such ability, I'd houserule that it uses capacity equal to the rating of the cybereye. Sound reasonable?
3. I can cast touch-range spells on anything I can touch with my meathand, and LOS range spells on anything I can see with my meateyes. If I pay essence for cybereyes, I can cast LOS spells on anything I can see with them. Therefore, if I pay essence for my grappling cyberhand, can I cast touch spells on anything I can touch with it?
4. This actually doesn't so much apply to the grapple hand, but I gotta know. Could a mystic adept punch the crap out of someone with Killing Hands and Critical Strike and all that, and channel a touch-range spell into the victim at the same time? Or are touch-range spells only delivered by a gentle poke, in the same manner as electrical shocks from shock hands?
5. Finally, what else might I do to pimp out my cyberhand so that people I launch it at to cast touch-range spells on are maximally boned? If I made it a shock hand, I doubt it would it be doing the 5S AP0 from the impact, 6S AP1/2 from the shock hand, and finally the spell itself, because for some reason you can't hit anything with a damaging amount of force if you're also shocking it at the same time. What if I used hand razors? Thoughts?
Replied are appreciated. So are merciful thoughts. The hour at which I post this is late.
Full Version: Grapple Hands
Disclaimer: Working from Memory, Not all that good with the SR4 rules. Take with grain of Salt.
1a. I am not sure, but i don't think it affects the cost, like, at all.
1b. Same Answer as before.
1c. Nope, if you have a full arm, you have a full arm. Where you install anything does not matter in the way of Rules, as far as i understand it. That's purely fluff and even if you replace the fingers with something that takes up capacity, it will hinder you when you want to build in smuggeling compartments into the upper part of the arm.
2. Nope. No Essence paid, no Magic. Cyber-Eye into the Arm/Hand is possible, but if you only pay capacity for it, then you basically build in a camera. And that's a big no for Casting. If you pay the 0-8 for an Alpha Arm and then the 0,1 or 0,2 for Eyes in that Arm too, then you are still at 1 Point of Essence and it works.
3. Yes, i guess you can. At least, that's more or less the general consensus dumpshock came up with. Also the only way to make a semi ranged weapon focus(*hint hint*)
4. Killing hands works with this setup, as does elemental strike and the other Stuff. But as far as i remember, using a Touch-Range-Spell means no Damage from physical Attack.
5. Climbing claws/Magnet System are a nice idea. And the Shock pad of course. Or Gecko-Stuff. Once you have made contact, most people won't be able to remove your hand from themselves. So you can blast them with impuni(spelling?) without having to worry about having to touch them again. But remember that this is more or less a Two-Way-Street, not a One-Way-Lane. Also, Cyber-Armor directly stacks with all other Armor on your Character, due to the abstract combat/damage-system used in the World of Shadowrun. Further, see my Answer on Question 3. Semi-Ranged Weapon-Focus. Or build in injector stuff. Stunbolt is all fine and dandy, but drugs don't have drain.
All in all, the Rocket-Punch/Grappe-Hand is by far the coolest and in my eyes most usefull thing you can build into your arms ^^
If it were not a mage, i would go with cyber-legs with hover-feet and use the hand to do water-ski behind cars to get through town ^^
1a. I am not sure, but i don't think it affects the cost, like, at all.
1b. Same Answer as before.
1c. Nope, if you have a full arm, you have a full arm. Where you install anything does not matter in the way of Rules, as far as i understand it. That's purely fluff and even if you replace the fingers with something that takes up capacity, it will hinder you when you want to build in smuggeling compartments into the upper part of the arm.
2. Nope. No Essence paid, no Magic. Cyber-Eye into the Arm/Hand is possible, but if you only pay capacity for it, then you basically build in a camera. And that's a big no for Casting. If you pay the 0-8 for an Alpha Arm and then the 0,1 or 0,2 for Eyes in that Arm too, then you are still at 1 Point of Essence and it works.
3. Yes, i guess you can. At least, that's more or less the general consensus dumpshock came up with. Also the only way to make a semi ranged weapon focus(*hint hint*)
4. Killing hands works with this setup, as does elemental strike and the other Stuff. But as far as i remember, using a Touch-Range-Spell means no Damage from physical Attack.
5. Climbing claws/Magnet System are a nice idea. And the Shock pad of course. Or Gecko-Stuff. Once you have made contact, most people won't be able to remove your hand from themselves. So you can blast them with impuni(spelling?) without having to worry about having to touch them again. But remember that this is more or less a Two-Way-Street, not a One-Way-Lane. Also, Cyber-Armor directly stacks with all other Armor on your Character, due to the abstract combat/damage-system used in the World of Shadowrun. Further, see my Answer on Question 3. Semi-Ranged Weapon-Focus. Or build in injector stuff. Stunbolt is all fine and dandy, but drugs don't have drain.
All in all, the Rocket-Punch/Grappe-Hand is by far the coolest and in my eyes most usefull thing you can build into your arms ^^
If it were not a mage, i would go with cyber-legs with hover-feet and use the hand to do water-ski behind cars to get through town ^^
Great! Excellent. Thank you. Just a few clarifications, and a touch of whining.
1. If I can get my cyberarm with a grapple hand built in at the low, low cost of 3,000 nY and 0 capacity, that might be too good to be true.
2. But... I paid essence for the cyberarm. And here's the thing; I CAN'T pay essence for a cybereye in the arm, because all cyberware in a cyberlimb has to paid for with capacity. Don't tell me it's going to have to be those ridiculous goggles...
4. I've never seen a clear explanation. The Rules: "To touch an unwilling target, the caster must make a normal unarmed attack as part of the Complex Action of spellcasting (see Melee Combat, p. 156). A tie on the Opposed Melee Test is sufficient for the caster to touch the target (p. 63)."
5. Good stuff! I'm a big believer in cyanide.
Dude, speaking of water-skiing, imagine replacing your feet with waterjets, grabbing the back of a motorboat with grapple hands and going to town!
1. If I can get my cyberarm with a grapple hand built in at the low, low cost of 3,000 nY and 0 capacity, that might be too good to be true.
2. But... I paid essence for the cyberarm. And here's the thing; I CAN'T pay essence for a cybereye in the arm, because all cyberware in a cyberlimb has to paid for with capacity. Don't tell me it's going to have to be those ridiculous goggles...
4. I've never seen a clear explanation. The Rules: "To touch an unwilling target, the caster must make a normal unarmed attack as part of the Complex Action of spellcasting (see Melee Combat, p. 156). A tie on the Opposed Melee Test is sufficient for the caster to touch the target (p. 63)."
5. Good stuff! I'm a big believer in cyanide.
Dude, speaking of water-skiing, imagine replacing your feet with waterjets, grabbing the back of a motorboat with grapple hands and going to town!
1.Hmm, now having had a look into augmentation it seems you really can not get the grapple hand without that thing having to be modular . .
Take a look at how much Capacity a lower Arm has. Deduct this from the ammount of Capacity a whole arm has. Ask your GM nicely if you can have it without it being modular in kind, after having bribed him with coke and chips.
2. Actually, you CAN get an eye implanted there and have to pay Essence for it still. If you wire the eye DIRECTLY into your Brain/Optical Nerve, like you do with the usual Cyber-Eyes, then you still have to pay the Essence for that. and thus you can cast through it too. If it's built into the Arm using capacity instead of essence? Nope, no dice. That's just a camera. That is NOT wired into your brain at all. The ARM is wired into your Brain, true. But not the stuff inside. And there's the hurdle. build in Eye, wire into brain, pay essence, cast. Also, i would advise on protective covers for that.
If you shoot your eye at things, i would want it to be safe from getting damaged by that.
4. That's one of the big rules in Shadowrun. You can't do more than one kind of damage per attack. At least, if i remember correctly.
5. Add the poison-reservoir to your climbing claws to kill two elves with one punch ^^
Water-Jets are not done the way i think you may think them to be done.
They are little jet turbines that come out of your lower leg instead of feet.
They pull in water from the direction of your upper leg and push it out in the direction of where your feet used to be.
Basically, they turn you into a torpedo. But the HOVER-Feet . . or Skimmer-Discs, as they are called, they work exactly like Skates/ski do. But both on water and land, and that's the whole beauty of them ^^
Take a look at how much Capacity a lower Arm has. Deduct this from the ammount of Capacity a whole arm has. Ask your GM nicely if you can have it without it being modular in kind, after having bribed him with coke and chips.
2. Actually, you CAN get an eye implanted there and have to pay Essence for it still. If you wire the eye DIRECTLY into your Brain/Optical Nerve, like you do with the usual Cyber-Eyes, then you still have to pay the Essence for that. and thus you can cast through it too. If it's built into the Arm using capacity instead of essence? Nope, no dice. That's just a camera. That is NOT wired into your brain at all. The ARM is wired into your Brain, true. But not the stuff inside. And there's the hurdle. build in Eye, wire into brain, pay essence, cast. Also, i would advise on protective covers for that.
If you shoot your eye at things, i would want it to be safe from getting damaged by that.
4. That's one of the big rules in Shadowrun. You can't do more than one kind of damage per attack. At least, if i remember correctly.
5. Add the poison-reservoir to your climbing claws to kill two elves with one punch ^^
Water-Jets are not done the way i think you may think them to be done.
They are little jet turbines that come out of your lower leg instead of feet.
They pull in water from the direction of your upper leg and push it out in the direction of where your feet used to be.
Basically, they turn you into a torpedo. But the HOVER-Feet . . or Skimmer-Discs, as they are called, they work exactly like Skates/ski do. But both on water and land, and that's the whole beauty of them ^^
I would rule that an independent cybereye have all the connections for handling actual natural sight. The 0,5 ECU cost is simple for the space and a fibre optic line connected to yourn optic nerve.
Good too.
Also, don't forget, the Eye gets it's own capacity for upgrades with eye-stuff again.
Also, don't forget, the Eye gets it's own capacity for upgrades with eye-stuff again.
Personally I think I'd argue that you should be able to cast out of "capacity" based cybereye since you paid Essence for the cyberarm, but even if your DM rules otherwise it shouldn't be a problem to pay Essence for the eye and just say that it's installed into the arm.
Yeah, but then we are back on the slippery slope of "can i cast through the camera? I can cast through the eye which i paid no essence for which is because of that, basically, a camera!"
just make the Arm Alpha, make Level3 Eyes Alpha and you are still within one point of Essence and nobody gets hurt.
just make the Arm Alpha, make Level3 Eyes Alpha and you are still within one point of Essence and nobody gets hurt.
Aye, don't get me wrong, I totally understand where you are coming from and you have a very good posistion, hell on futher reflection I'm even starting to waver. 
But I do have to question how your ruling would interact with modular cyberlimbs, I mean, could an eye that was paid for with Essence and was "fluffed" to be installed on a cyberhand be detacted and reatacted nul sweat?
But I do have to question how your ruling would interact with modular cyberlimbs, I mean, could an eye that was paid for with Essence and was "fluffed" to be installed on a cyberhand be detacted and reatacted nul sweat?
As long as you pay the essence, yes, it can.
There's more connections that have to be closed when attaching the hand with the eye, true, but as long as you have the connection wired straight into your brain without going through the connection the arm itself has to your brain, you can use it whenever you attach it. Like you can have several pairs of eyes installed, but you can't cast through them if they are removed from your body.
Connection gone? Magic gone. the only part where it would become iffy is if there is an ESSENCE-HOLE created when you remove the limb with the eye in it . . but please, let's not get started on that one . . that way lies madness . . well, more madness anyway . . Honestly? i doubt even the guys that came up with the Essence/Hole-Rules fully understand them by this point <.< . .
There's more connections that have to be closed when attaching the hand with the eye, true, but as long as you have the connection wired straight into your brain without going through the connection the arm itself has to your brain, you can use it whenever you attach it. Like you can have several pairs of eyes installed, but you can't cast through them if they are removed from your body.
Connection gone? Magic gone. the only part where it would become iffy is if there is an ESSENCE-HOLE created when you remove the limb with the eye in it . . but please, let's not get started on that one . . that way lies madness . . well, more madness anyway . . Honestly? i doubt even the guys that came up with the Essence/Hole-Rules fully understand them by this point <.< . .
Oy, I remember the conversation between FrankTrollman and Synner, pity that Frank didn't get his way.
Yep, i thought you'd see it my way ^^
I still say they should not have changed Cyber>Essence and Bio>Index from SR3 . . But eh, nobody's listening *shrugs*
I still say they should not have changed Cyber>Essence and Bio>Index from SR3 . . But eh, nobody's listening *shrugs*
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