before you ask, yes i searched and found the superhero thread, which was informing

here is setup:
I noticed in runner's companion in the changeling section there was a little quality called claws, p112. the basic type that is always out (hmm, sabertooth type ...) and retractable. RETRACTABLE! It does state this it incompatible with any cyberweapon and limb replacement.The retractable version can be hidden like retractable cyberweapons.

now for my question:
Having the Claws quality (10 BP retractable), can you use bonelace on the claws along with the rest of your body, aka wolverine becomes weapon X, and have all the benfits??
bones/ claws has tough as the material laced into the bones?
the damage bonus based on the material (titanium gives +3)?
basically is it legal? bone lacing is BODYWARE, not a cyberweapon or limb replacement

all thoughts and opinions welcomed

i haven't figured out the regeneration part yet, but i like to think i am one step closer to putting a wolverine based character into SR. If anything, it would make a good backup PC for new players until they a feel for the game. Most people alest know who wolverine is, NOW, after the movie, and could make an easier way to bring in new players

and it would be cool to play, i believe

I put "wolverine" into the search box and got 6 pages of references. I'm sure more than one showed how to do it both as an adept and with cyberware.

But on with your problem.

Regeneration: use a spirit with the power to use it on him perhaps through a spirit pact.

RAW doesn't say anything about the interaction between claws and bone lacing/density. IMHO, if lacing/density can make unarmed attacks deal STR/2+3P damage, it should make claws deal at least the same amount. In fact, since claws only do STR/2P damage anyway, using them would be of no real benefit. I'd allow it as a flavor thing, though.

Regeneration is incredibly useful, but it doesn't make you invincible. It's probably a bit more effective against physical attacks than Arcane Arrester is against magical attacks, so I'd make it available as a SURGE quality for 30 BP. Keep in mind that headshot damage, magic damage and damage from dumpshock/black IC can't be regenerated.

Dorf Adept with Cyber-Spurs and Titanium Bonelacing.

the biggest advantage i see at the moment is if the claws can laced as the rest of bones, it saves on essence cost. you don't have to pay for the spurs, ess. or nuyen
which helps if you're trying to do a phys-ad/cyber combo to create wolverine

and fluff factor, of course

not worried about the regeneration at the moment, just if i can combine the bone lacing with changeling quality claws

it SHOULD work, if the Claws are described as Bone. how should the procedure know which bones to lace and which ones not?
but now that you can't dikote anything anymore, why go with the cyber version? go with bone density stuff. perfect assassins weapons.
Bone is bone, reinforced or not. Even if the reinforcement shows up on some gen-test, they still can't tell if you have retractable bone claws in your usual bones.
Well, as long as they are inside your bones at least. if they are out? even x-ray will show them.

It would also be nice to add the platelet factories bio to help the regeneration.

hey stahlseele, you are right
the claws won't show on a cyberscan. cyberspurs would though

didn't think of that

and SINS can be altered to show that the bonelacing was the result of an accident and the bones needed the reinforcement

Still, aside from being true to concept and looking cool, why use cyber bonelace instead of bio bone density?
Oh, and Wolverine also had something done to his body so his body did not stop muscle-growth quite that soon.

The problem, rule-wise, is that titanium bone lacing is legality code: F and shows up on a MAD scanner. Also, cyberware and regeneration don't mix unless the cyberware is deltaware, which is unavailable at char-gen.

The closest you can get would be a changeling adept with retractable claws and quick-healing/high pain tolerance qualities, along with adept powers to make the character effective in close combat. Or for the cybered version, get bone augmentation or less obvious lacing (such as plastic or ceramic), retractable cyberspurs on both hands, and other healing/damage soaking 'ware to taste, along with the usual senseware and initiative-enhancing 'ware.

Wolverine, like most comic book characters, can't really be duplicated with the rules. You are better off settling for a character with a slight Wolverine flavor (spurs, durable, quick-healing). The other potential problem with comic book characters is that as a player, you might tend to have how badass Wolverine is in the comics in mind. So it will be a jarring discontinuity when the character doesn't do that well.

ol wolvie have had his fair share of problems with metal detectors

adamantium seems to be highly ferrous...

What?

In the Ultimate Marvel continuity he doesn't set off metal detectors because of the stealth capabilities Weapon X installed into him. Just FYI.

heh, thats ultimate, ill stick to the "classics"

if you get the quality restricted gear, titanium at 16F is obtainable

basic wolverine is stealth and close combat, with some motorcycle piloting thrown in
and nothing says he can't be elf or dwarf: short hairy elf, or tall dwarf
charimsa is more then just looks. a decent to high cha might explain why people are attrached to wolvy, besides writer fluff

you can make a starting wolverine, just really starting. which explains why he isn't a true badass, yet.

a movie version is trickier, having to add in firearms and such

hmm, a wolverine type character as a spike baby.......off subject thinking
i am just wanting to make sure bonelacing the claws is legal in most games, including SRMs

People always forget his enhances senses...

Make a Wolf shapeshifter, +delta alumium Bone lacing (150.000k) - yeah Titanium would be nice... but 400.000? yeah right, Surged Claws (Or delta spur for 18.000).

To reflect toughness even against magic: make him an adept with a bit of +healing (for when his regeneration not takes)+ Sense Dice +Maybe a bit of Mystical armor +strength, body or extra healing dice *g*

And pump him full of healing Nanites / Symbionts if you have the money(So he regenerate even critical magical damage in a day or so.

delta is great, though expensive
and not availble at character creation, only basic & alpha

haven't forgotten the senses. looked over some qualities for that, too
just don't like the idea of giving him metagenic berserker, though if played right (and not so much by RAW) it is a good RPing aspect and true to wolverine

Either way, you have to have a nice GM who like "overlooking" some rules. Either the Delta-thing... or ask for regeneration as a Ki-Power... or cobble it together a bit less effective (without regenration but with LOT of extra body+symbiotes/nonosymbiotns and that worm thingy *g*. +(stuff against tireing, diseases, toxics and extra smell sense)

symbiotes, high pain, tough, mystic armor, etc....

anything to simulate a regeneration power without being able to really have the power

bone lacing helps add in to armor, too

If i understood that whole stuff right, muscle grow is stopped by a certain protein or hormone or something which is produced when the body is of the opinion that enough is enough.
Weapon X basically injected him with something that keeps this stuff which keeps the muscle grow in check at a lower level than would be normal, so he get's more dense muscles.
So, more Muscles than he would regularly have. Thus, more Strength. Probably also a bit more Speed. Compare Weapon-X-Wolverine to the Wolverine without Adamantium in him.
The Versions without Adamantium generally are more sleek and agile, nut quite as bulky and muscular in body built. Well, actually, the Versions with the Adamantium in there AGAIN
should be a bit more sleek and agile too, as they don't have the Weapon-X-Muscle-Growth-Stuff in them anymore, as the removal of the Adamantium basically kicked the healing in
high gear. Yes, even higher gear than you usually know from him. High enough to completely heal him from being run over by a Truck in a matter of seconds. Many bones broken,
tissue ripped, nerves destroyed, organs made into paste . . And then when the Truck is not on his body anymore, he is allready healing. Completely healed before he stops rolling.

The Adamantium is basically keeping his healing factor in check, because it is something entirely alien to his system and the healing factor does indeed try to fight it because of that.


Yeah, i know, i know . . i know waayy too muuch about this stuff ^^#

If you really wanna go for regeneration, there's a DRUG that gives this power.
And if you do go for that, kindly forget all about cyber and go with bioware.
That stuff actually gets completely repaird/healed up by regeneration i think.
Soo . . natural retractable Claws like uncle Logan, Stronger bones too.
And the claws regrow if broken off or something and the Bones mend again.

Else, you're pretty much limited to infecting a Dwarf with some HMHVV Strain.
Presto, instant Regeneration if you're lucky. Also, a kind of animal too.

There's nothing that can measure up to Regeneration in terms of healing in SR.
But Trolls can come pretty close with the right augmentations and high Body.

I have every issue of every Wolverine mini-series out there and ongoing subscriptions to all the X-Titles going back 15 years plus all the back issues I can find so I can relate to you.

As far as I know, Wolverine's healing factor is what kept him in primo physical condition (I have no recollection of Weapon X implanting him with a "muscle growth factor inhibitor" or anything like that, do you remember where you read it?) combined with his muscles adapting to the extra weight of his skeleton. Not to mention the vast increase in leverage and structural durability his bones give him to further boost his strength.

As to how he looks in the comics, sleeker versus more muscular, that's not really applicable since every artist draws him differently. Joe Madureira for example draws him with forearms that are literally 3 feet in circumference.

I think I'd make Wolvie a dwarf, he just seems like a crusty dwarf to me.

Wolverine IS a Dwarf. He is SHORT!
As to where i read that? Weapon-X the Novel.
And of course, his healing factor keeps him at peak level performance every minute of his life.
Also, it makes this life last one freakish long time too. Nobody really knows how old he is, but 200 to 300 years is a common guess i think.
He simply does not age. He does not get tired. Not even his own bodys toxins can stop him. The Healing factor goes so far as to literally heal away physical and psychological traumata.
That's one of the explanations for his loss of memory. Because the Memories hurt. He healed. Basically, physical memory suppression. Subconsciously done by himself.
Yeah, okay, i am afraid you might possibly have me on his looks . . am not saying you do, but i do acknowledge the possibility of it being true ^^
Else, make him an Ork. Or some sort of meta variant of Ork. Wasn't there one really short too?

Are claws bones? AFAIK they consist of horn. At least I don't have bones in my finger nails and I think cats and dogs don't either.

-> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm...law_closeup.jpg

Even if you'd lace you claws, you'd have the problem that they regularly wear of an regrow.



The problem's that the cyberware will vanish when shifting to human form.

Its SURGE it can be bone or that stuff cats claws and fingernails are made of (the name sliped my mind) I would how ever go for full bioware not any cyber.

Surge claws are altered fingernails and toenails, not bone - bone lacing would do absolutely nothing for them. Wolverine has cyberspurs, anyways - in fact, I think his character is where they got the idea for cyberspurs.

I think Wolverine has the most love interests of any character in the Marvel universe.

Besides all the nice features of the Wolvie concept let us not forget the disadvantages. Like a mad rigger blaming SURGE mutants for further ruining (meta)humanity and sending large anthroform drones after him armed with highlevel piloting and autosoft sets.

As for memory, memories aren't in DNA. If the brain is damage and the various synapses severed they won't grow back into the patterns that match up with what was there before.

At the end of the recent Wolverine Movie, the evil government scientist was quite right that the bullets fired into Wolvie's skull wouldn't kill him but would harm his memories.

Sign--

Wacky

as far as the claws go, it does say the fingernails & toenails. if you are a purist & go by the RAW, then chances are the answer would be no on bone lacing
in the spirit of the game, what to say the retractable claws aren't bone, in the sense of fluff and such. i'll that up to each GM

it was finally revealed that wolvy's claws are bone. Yeah, i agree the idea for cyberspurs are most likely based on him. what is not cool about 3 claws popping out of your hand.
anyway, in one of the best written issues of xmen, after magneto had ripped the metal off of wolvy bones ( and nearly killed wolvy still, even with his regen.), wolverine stepped into the danger room, did a basic combat sim, and popped bone claws, much to the agony of the pain of doing it. several times it was noted, in flashbacks and recons of the adamantium being applied, that it was noticed more of the metal went to the arms then should have been needed.

it is stated that no matter what metatype you choose, you still choose what he looks like: skinny dwarf, fat elf, short troll, etc..

love interests? he has what, even based off the movie or the comics, close to 160 years of life. knock off 15 or 20 for growing up and such, still looking at 140 years to sow his wild oats, as they say

The first most important part to remember is wolverine having bone claws is a retarded retcon, which means its better to just go with spurs. Classic wolverine flavor beats the crap out of retcon when bad writing attacks flavor.

We also have to differ between the comic-wolvie and the movie-wolvie. If you want to have the second one, bone lacing, 2 sets of cyberspurs and a lot of body-dice are the only thing you need (go for the spirit-pact for regeneration). I admit that my opinion established because i was a little bit disappointed by the conversion of the comic-character to the movies, but as far as i saw it, the only thing Logan was capable of, was to withstand a lot of damage. Every other character was faster, stronger, better at fighting and smarter. I didn´t see an advantage from his century-lifespan, no "master of all martial-arts and as one of just a few chars capable to beat spidey", no "speaks several languages fluently", no "special military and espionage training".

i think i read some recent research that showed females wants the "bad boy" around a specific time each month, but more dependable sort otherwise.

tho i will always love the page where the writer made wolverine remember why cyclops was boss, as it involved a leveled area of forest and a sentinel, in one blast

and the funny part there is that spidey never really learned any formal combat form until right before civil war

Yeah, he´s just f***ing quick. Spider sense makes his part, too. I remember a very old comic where he fought with this stupid chinese martial-arts guy. He also said that spidey would become invinvible, if he would learn martial arts.^^

got to love the westernized love for martial arts...

Yeah, but it is just so famous, because the knowledge of the ancient european martial arts got lost. I think they would be much cooler.^^

well, there is savate. basically kickboxing with metal toed shoes and walking stick

There is also pankrase (greek-style), but hardly anything is left of what it basically was. The samurai and shaolin are always pointed out as being the masters of close-combat, but they are definitely not better than our ancestors. I think a german knight could also kick the nuts of an samurai. The only difference is, that they implemented fighting in their traditions and so it survived.

and outlawed the ownership of weapons among the peasantry, especially firearms...

....what worked out until the portuguese introduced firearms finally in asia.^^

But to get back to the topic: creating a wolverine-char in SR would really be a pain in the ass and not very effective. Close-combat simply is lame in SR in comparison to ranged combat. Sad but true. But for the fluff, you really need to get some things done to come even close to Logan. Not worth it, no matter how fluffy you like it. At least regeneration should be possible (which is not for most GM´s i think of).

Depends on the time frame of the character. Earlier wolverine did not have come back form the dead levels of regeneration. He was a bad ass fighter, near captain america skills. As his regeneration grew he just became an outlet for crap writers to show how "bad" the villains were.

While there is some of that I think they were making a generalized comment that if he knew how to fight he would be unstoppable. A trained fighter with super human agility, super human strength, and the ability to sense where an attack was coming from before it happened would be bad ass. Add in comics frequently make any "trained" fighter able to take out dozens of people in a fight without a problem and he becomes more absurd.