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Akhkharu
Forgive me if things don't make sense, I'm a little bit drunk.

I've been GMing SR4 for a few months now. I'm not the best at it but I'm learning. Last session, the players & I did something that I'm not sure how to handle / fix.

Brief: The PCs are looking for their hacker friend who's been kidnapped. While investigating, they managed to alert someone they shouldn't have and they sent someone to give them a message. Basicly, they sent in an enforcer with stun sticks and stunned them out, wrecked the PCs office in the process, and spray painted "Stop Your Search" in bright pink.

During the fight, the technomancer hacked the enforcers disposable comm. (he doesn't take his real one on missions like this) and called Lone Star. The technomancer made sure the enforcer heard him and told Lone Star "I'm killing people, come and stop me." Once the PCs were knocked out, the enforcer traded his disposable comm. for one of the PCs before escaping.

When the PCs started to wake up, they got a call from the PC that ran away that Lone Star is about 20 seconds away. They argued for a bit, 2 took off and 2 stayed behind as 2 Lone Star officers burst into the room.

Lone Star took the 2 PCs in for questioning as one of them had the comm. from the enforcer.

Problem I'm having is, what would Lone Star do to these 2 players. Would they check the SINs of them and probably find that they are fake (fake SIN rating 2). Would they look into other unsolved incidents recently and possibly tie PCs to that?

Lone Star has another SIN of one of the PCs on their watch list. Lone Star is actually watching his place. Is he in bigger trouble if the connection between the 2 SINs can be made.

What about the player with the disposable comm. Does he have his SIN on him, or is it now in the hands of the enforcer? If the enforcer has it, how much trouble would he be in for having a fake SIN?

Are SIN tied directly to a person's comm., or is it similar to the way it is now and it's a piece of paper/plastic to keep in a wallet?

Checking for a fake SIN, what device do I use? What kind of rating would Lone Star have? Is there a way to beat the machine?

Any suggestions or help is much appreciated.
Again, sorry if it doesn't make sense or I jump around a bunch.
Thanks
Akh
knasser
QUOTE (Akhkharu @ Aug 20 2009, 06:29 AM) *
Forgive me if things don't make sense, I'm a little bit drunk.

I've been GMing SR4 for a few months now. I'm not the best at it but I'm learning. Last session, the players & I did something that I'm not sure how to handle / fix.

Brief: The PCs are looking for their hacker friend who's been kidnapped. While investigating, they managed to alert someone they shouldn't have and they sent someone to give them a message. Basicly, they sent in an enforcer with stun sticks and stunned them out, wrecked the PCs office in the process, and spray painted "Stop Your Search" in bright pink.

During the fight, the technomancer hacked the enforcers disposable comm. (he doesn't take his real one on missions like this) and called Lone Star. The technomancer made sure the enforcer heard him and told Lone Star "I'm killing people, come and stop me." Once the PCs were knocked out, the enforcer traded his disposable comm. for one of the PCs before escaping.

When the PCs started to wake up, they got a call from the PC that ran away that Lone Star is about 20 seconds away. They argued for a bit, 2 took off and 2 stayed behind as 2 Lone Star officers burst into the room.

Lone Star took the 2 PCs in for questioning as one of them had the comm. from the enforcer.

Problem I'm having is, what would Lone Star do to these 2 players. Would they check the SINs of them and probably find that they are fake (fake SIN rating 2). Would they look into other unsolved incidents recently and possibly tie PCs to that?

Lone Star has another SIN of one of the PCs on their watch list. Lone Star is actually watching his place. Is he in bigger trouble if the connection between the 2 SINs can be made.

What about the player with the disposable comm. Does he have his SIN on him, or is it now in the hands of the enforcer? If the enforcer has it, how much trouble would he be in for having a fake SIN?

Are SIN tied directly to a person's comm., or is it similar to the way it is now and it's a piece of paper/plastic to keep in a wallet?

Checking for a fake SIN, what device do I use? What kind of rating would Lone Star have? Is there a way to beat the machine?

Any suggestions or help is much appreciated.
Again, sorry if it doesn't make sense or I jump around a bunch.
Thanks
Akh


I only have a few minutes to type this, so my reply is only short. Others may have better suggestions. But really the two arrested characters are in big trouble. Being captured can be effectively as bad as being dead. Out of the game, you're done, roll new character. The two that stayed behind made a terrible misjudgement. The player that called the police in had a good idea, badly timed. They needed an escape route of their own.

A rating 2 Fake SIN is something you use for buying some stuff online or in shops, getting around town and avoiding getting hassled by routine drone sweeps. It probably wont stand up to a proper police interrogation in a case where there have been murders. The actual rules (such as they are) are on pg. 267 SR4A. Basically, assign a rating to the interrogator's verification system (I would use 4 in a police station for normal usage. Higher is available if there's a reason to suspect a fake) and then make an opposed roll between the two. On a tie, the PC must answer questions about his supposed life (I would use Logic + Con).

With Edge usage, it's possible they could bluff their way out of there (they'll have to ditch their Fake SINs, which are now compromised) and make a get away. Biometric samples will have been taken, mind you.

But basically, I think the two PCs are in big trouble. If you don't want this to be new character time, I'd allow the two that got away to have a one-chance at breaking their friends free. It wont be easy. They could either do a social run on the station (i.e. they use trickery and good Social rolls, not violence) to get their friends out or they do a hard hit on the transport taking their friends to a longer-term incarceration. Both will require significant planning, contacts and the Best Getaway In the World.

Another option is that Lone Star will try to make use of the players. Maybe they'll slap a bomb in the two suspect's heads and make them useful. Would be a nasty situation all round, but then it already is.

If it's of any use, I have a Police Station location prepared.

Hope all this helps,

K.
X-Kalibur
Do it the "Saving Silverman" way. Have Lee Emery drive a truck into the cell wall, break free, and get away with no hassles! Ok, maybe a bad idea.
BobRoberts
Personally, I think this is a great opportunity for some fun RPG.

The 2 PCs are in a bit of trouble - fake SINs, a 'bad' commlink, call with some threatening talk in it. A rating 2 SIN should not pass the detectors in a lone star station.

However, they've not been caught red handed in the middle of a 'game over' crime - selling 2 tonnes of coke, murder, etc. There's no corpses. Quite likely they can show the commlink isn't even theirs?

Think Knasser got it right - with edge and some social skills they should be able to talk their way out of this at the cost of a couple of cheap SINs? Perhaps throw in a fine for 'wasting police time'.


Failing that, I'd use this as an excuse to jerk their chain a little. Here's a couple of vague ideas:

Have a lone star detective use them to catch a bigger fish. Perhaps he *really* wants that enforcer for a bigger crime/personal reason. Recognises info on the Commlink and knows that it's not the PCs. He'd use the PCs as bait/confidential informants/etc to catch him.

It's a good one, sets up a potentially useful contact who will hassle you from time to time.

A lawyer you don't know and didn't hire springs you on a bunch of technicalities. The cops didn't mirandise properly, were wearing the wrong colour socks, chewbacca defense, etc. Almost anyone could have hired them...


On the SIN front, it is stored on the commlink. I think the enforcer would need to get some reasonably tricky hacking done to get at the SIN information (encryption 5 on the SIN is standard IIRC?). I guess at the end of the day it's a rating 2 fake SIN, so there's only so many things he can use it for. If he uses it, then it's not going to take long for the technomancer to find out where he is and what he's doing?
Kerrang
QUOTE (Akhkharu @ Aug 19 2009, 11:29 PM) *
Brief: The PCs are looking for their hacker friend who's been kidnapped. While investigating, they managed to alert someone they shouldn't have and they sent someone to give them a message. Basicly, they sent in an enforcer with stun sticks and stunned them out, wrecked the PCs office in the process, and spray painted "Stop Your Search" in bright pink.


So, the office that got trashed was actually owned by one of the PCs? Was this one of the PCs that stayed around waiting for the Star, and if so, did this PC still have his own comm? If so, the PC should have been able to prove to the Star that this was his/her office, and they were the actual victim, then provide the stolen comm info to the Star and get them sniffing after the Enforcer.

Once the PCs are taken in by the Star, though, their rating 2 fake SIMs would be exposed, except for the one who ended up with the disposable comm. If this PC has multiple SINs, and has a higher rated SIN, he could provide the info on one of those SINs for the Star to check up on, and he might get out of the jam. The other PC is still busted for using a fake SIN, but that is not a huge crime in and of itself, the problem comes in if that SIN can be tied to a criminal SIN, or the PC can be linked to other crimes via prints/DNA/etc.

Now, the crime which was actually committed on this run seems to be simply B&E with destruction of personal property. Even if the runners that were hauled in are not the owners of the property, if the PC who owns the office shows up and refuses to press charges because the other PCs were allowed to be on the premises (no B&E charge), and he knows they did not destroy his property, the Star would have no choice but to release the PCs or charge them with other crimes.
Cheops
The really big problem arises from the question "Do they have the SINner negative quality"? If they are SINless then the Star can do whatever they want with them if they spot the fake SINs. At that point it is up to you to decide what you want to do with them. Snitching for the Star can create some very interesting RP opportunities.

A really good option for the Technomancer, assuming he likes these teammates, is to call in a Human Rights watchdog like Amnesty International or M.O.M. or some such. Once they show up the Star has to treat the PCs like human beings. This means the issuance of a SIN, right to representation, the need to press charges, and the requirement to do so within 24 hours. This again opens the door for the PC who owns the place to drop any charges against them leaving the only crime the carrying of Fake SINs (although in my games that is a fairly hefty crime) and maybe some license infractions.

Course if they are already SINners or their Fake SINs hold (a TM in one of my games used sprites to glitch the verification devices when their ID was being checked) then they have the full rights and protections of the law.

PS. all this assumed a Seattle campaign. Local laws and rights may vary.
Warlordtheft
Another option is when checking the sins-they find that they are fake. Lone Star at that point can do what ever they want as they don't exist. They could send them into a dentention center for sinless and ship them off somewhere and sell them as slaves. Or the star could say-I'm taking your prints, retinal scan, and DNA (see records on file in runners companian, and criminal sin in the BBB flaws). That should be about it. Now the star officer may accept a "fine" (a couple thousand nuyen) for making a crank call and let them be on their way.
Akhkharu
QUOTE (Kerrang @ Aug 20 2009, 10:15 AM) *
So, the office that got trashed was actually owned by one of the PCs? Was this one of the PCs that stayed around waiting for the Star, and if so, did this PC still have his own comm? If so, the PC should have been able to prove to the Star that this was his/her office, and they were the actual victim, then provide the stolen comm info to the Star and get them sniffing after the Enforcer.

The office that was used unfortunately belongs to the guy who's comm. got swiped. I rolled to checked who's comm. got switched.

QUOTE (BobRoberts @ Aug 20 2009, 03:16 AM) *
Have a lone star detective use them to catch a bigger fish. Perhaps he *really* wants that enforcer for a bigger crime/personal reason. Recognises info on the Commlink and knows that it's not the PCs. He'd use the PCs as bait/confidential informants/etc to catch him.

I like this idea, as the PCs can help fix their mistake from last season and get the Vory out of Lone Star. I'll have to work out some ideas, but this seems do-able.

QUOTE (knasser @ Aug 20 2009, 12:20 AM) *
If it's of any use, I have a Police Station location prepared.

That looks sweet. Haven't had a chance to go over it all, but just at a glance. I can already see the players trying to hit this place.

I'll talk to the 2 players and see how they want to proceed. If they're wanting new characters, go with that. Might just do temp. characters for either a hit on Lone Star, or until they get out.

Thanks for the ideas
Akh
Akhkharu
QUOTE (Cheops @ Aug 20 2009, 10:56 AM) *
The really big problem arises from the question "Do they have the SINner negative quality"? If they are SINless then the Star can do whatever they want with them if they spot the fake SINs. At that point it is up to you to decide what you want to do with them. Snitching for the Star can create some very interesting RP opportunities.

Neither of them have the SINner negative quality.
A buddy wrote up info on Winnipeg so we're having the game is set there. For local laws, etc. I'm using it like Seattle, to keep it easy on all 6 of us.
knasser
QUOTE (Akhkharu @ Aug 20 2009, 06:07 PM) *
That looks sweet. Haven't had a chance to go over it all, but just at a glance. I can already see the players trying to hit this place.


Glad you like it. It's designed to be reasonably realistic and a place that you could do a run against. But despite the general low-power of the location, there's enough capability in that place that any run which wasn't very well planned, would likely end very badly. If they do go with springing their friends, you might want to cook up some dispoable sub-PC types that the two players whose PCs are captive could play as part of the hit team, until their own characters were freed. Just a thought. If they can blag their way out of there though, so much the better.

K.
nezumi
1) The SINs most likely will not stand up to scrutiny. In SR3, the LS runs a rating 8 check in the station. They'll run a rating 4 or 5 at the car, if memory serves. They'd be burning a LOT of edge to make it through that. A SIN is a number (Serial Identification Number) attached to the person's identity. It's matched to his biometrics, and is usually stored on a credstick (but not certified credsticks). The fake SIN is floating in the system, it's not just a card you can hand over or lose.

2) What the cops do depends basically on how pissed off they are, and if they're meeting quotas. This whole crime that happened above, were any SINned people bothered? If not, the cops don't have to make an arrest - crimes against non-citizens don't 'count'. They could if they wanted to show they're stopping crimes, but you know... the beat cop doesn't really care. Did the cop have to come way out of his way to get here? Has there been a lot of trouble in the area? Do the arrested people look like trouble? Do they look like money? Basically you have to remember that, for the cop, this boils down to a few possibilities...

-The cop has enough evidence to push the perp through a trial and get a conviction. The cop gets a brownie point.
-The cop does NOT have enough evidence, but realizes the perp is going to be trouble. The cop shoots the perp in the street or cell, dumps the body, and knows life will be a tiny bit safer in the future.
-The perp has a TON of money on hand. The cop requires the money to let the perp free. The cop takes a long vacation to the Federated States of Hawai'i.
-The perp has a non-astronomical amount of money on hand, doesn't seem a real threat to cops and maybe there's not enough evidence for a trial. The cop requires the money to let the perp free and buys a cheap hooker for a night.
-The perp has no money, isn't a threat, and doesn't have enough evidence attached to him. The cop beats the tar out of him, swipes all his stuff and tosses him out of a moving car.

Remember that the average Lone Star officer doesn't get paid enough to maintain a Middle lifestyle. He's poor. And Lone Star isn't paid to protect the SINless.

kzt
Thisi s what I'd do.

The PCs get to go downtown. (It's an emergency call at a business, the LS guys can't just leave) The IDs will probably not hold. If their prints/dna are on file for something else (like their backstory) things get exciting. If they were ever arrested before they will be matched up.

Otherwise a detective shows up and individually (isolated from their buddy) asks them what was going on and who was there. He's got lots of CHA and skills. PCs probably don't tell lies good enough. So he then confronts them and asks them what was really going on.

LS isn't in favor of kidnapping. Solving kidnappings looks good, solving kidnappings of the right people can look really good. Lots of things can be forgiven if it results in good press coverage or makes the right people think highly of LS. They owe the LS detective, they walk out. But they get a SIN of some sort, since they went through booking.

If they stonewall and are not wanted they'll probably get a criminal SIN and maybe 30 days in jail for aggravated annoyance of the cops and/or placing a fake emergency call. It's not a really big deal unless they are wanted for something.
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