Recent threads have mentioned that Dumpshock amounts to an iron lung keeping the dying Shadowrun genre alive. This leads to an obvious question, what can we do about it?

Obviously promoting Shadowrun is a good thing but probably not enough. The books are hard to find but are on the shelves, but what Shadowrun really needs is something to draw in new blood. I know the legalese to Shadowrun is all screwed up so for the moment I'm ignoring them, more on that later. Here's my notions:

A Shadowrun Movie:
Obviously this would draw a huge number of people to Shadowrun. Few things would be better for the Game than to have a (good) Shadowrun movie made. Unfortunately the odds of a good one are slim, more than likely it would be another Wing Commander, a movie that had only the vaugest relationship with it's parent game and turned people away from it, due to budget constraints or simply not attracting a skilled enough director.

A Shadowrun TV Show/Cartoon:
The same issues as above apply, however it might benefit Shadowrun even more than a movie to have a TV show running year after year attracting new gamers. And if a bad director is messing things up he could be canned and a new better one found.

A Shadowrun Comic Book:
This has a little more potential in my mind. Less initial startup cash than a movie means it can probably have a prayer of happening, and like a TV show it might run for years and attract new gamers. Also a bad writer could be canned and replaced with a new one who would boost the ratings.

A Shadowrun Online Comic:
This strikes me as the most likely option and the one I'd like to try. It has most of the advantages of the comic book option, with an even lower startup cost, and there are probably enough skilled artists and writers here on Dumpshock to make it happen. A Team of an artist or two, a good writer, and a webmaster with the skills to make an attractive and functional website could easily build an online comic that would attract attention and draw readers. And comics do sell merchandise, a link from the comic to dumpshock, another to Amazon.com's Shadowrun books, and the comic could easily boost sales of books while attracting new members to the Shadowrun universe, and possibly pumping new life into the Genre.

So the question becomes, where do the legal threads lie on such ideas and how could they be implemented?

Well, I don't know about it being "dying" per se, though I haven't kept up with threads in the past few days. I myself am working on a (entirely unofficial) Shadowrun webcomic, and Adam has mentioned a short movie contest in the works, so if there's a decent turnout that could help. Also, buying friends who roleplay copies of the core rulebook for birthdays/holiday of choice/just because can get new addicts. We can't really affect things like a Shadowrun movie or official comic book series, but what we can do is continue the low-level propagation.

~J

As far as I am aware... Fan Pro holds all rights to shadowrun and anything shadowrunesque EXCEPT for computer game rights, which belong to M$. I'd also say that, all said and done, shadowrun is probably too complex to be easily made into a movie or anything more than a saturday morning cartoon show. I'd go with Cyberpunk. That's still a big enough jump that it's in the right direction, without throwing in magic which makes it kinda out there for your older audiences (you want to make something that would interest you, your jock school mates, your younger brother Timmy, your father, your mom, your girlfriend... Make it too out there and you lose them.) Also, just from what I've seen, I'm guessing the movie is more likely to come from Europe than it is from the U.S. Just seems that Europe has more interest in the whole genre, not sure why.

I'm not totally sure why you're bringing it up, though. Unless there's someone here who's secretly a multimillionaire or an incognito network exec, there's little we can do for tv shows and movies. Webcomics you can do, I'm sure that FanPro would give you the stamp of approval as long as you don't make money off of it (e-mail them about getting advertising to pay for bandwidth or whatever, I doubt they'll complain. The're generally pretty good people.) You'd need to work on getting plot, humor and make it easy for new people to jump in on it. An artist would help too. (I know one who does commisions if you're interested.)

That said, the best way to get new blood is to deal with prospective players on a one to one perspective. Go to gaming clubs, invite your friends, things like that. Don't regale them with too many stories, they bore people if they don't know the game (my wife is teaching me that detail). Once again, I'd suggest looking at Cyberpunk as a starter, it's a LOT simplier in regards to rules (pretty much just d10) then tie the two games together.

It'll spread through either random spending ("OOh that looks nice"), between friends ("I hear Shadowrun is good."/"Wanna play in my Shadowrun game?"), Convention demos ("Play Shadowrun!"), movies (ala D&D), and possibly Mainstream Computer Games (anyone know how much Redemption helped white-wolf?). The other options still rely on people knowing of shadowrun unless you get them pushed into the mainstream somehow (Big advertising campaigns).

I'd go for a Mainstream Computer Game any day though (An FPS would be nice) as then you don't need the high budget to make the film work well and it probably gets about the same viewing from the target audience as a high-budget film. If you can get the budget for the film then I'd choose it instead though.

You forgot the most important thing you can do to promote Shadowrun...
Every time you go to a rpg convention, go with the SR corebook under your arm, join the Master´s list...and run a shadowrun adventure to a group of players. Another day run an introductory game for newbies...and so on...

that´s the most important thing you can do to promote SR...and is the most important. It doesnt mind if there is a ccg, or a cartoon, or a group of friends is making a movie, or whatever... run shadowrun games at conventions

Reverendo Fastjack

Actually we needn't have a millionaire to make a movie, there are plenty of Indie film producers out there who make movies on shoestring budgets of only a few thousand dollars. Of course a high percentage of those movies suck but now and then you get the next Army of Darkness. . .

As for word of mouth, yeah it's good and all but I assume Dumpshockers and other fans are already doing that (I know I am, having introduced 5 people to it recently) and it doesn't seem to be working well enough, hence my desire to do more.

But yeah, a webcomic is what we the Dumpshockers could do to promote SR. I personally could contribute art, although I wouldn't be so Arrogant as to call myself the greatest artist alive I've been writing 8 pages of webcomics a week for well over a year now without a miss, so I know how to keep a deadline. As I said, for the project to be good it'd take at least 3 people, an author, a webmaster, and an artist. I'd be willing to shelve my own private worlds in order to concentrate more on promoting Shadowrun.

When you consider that my own humble comic efforts, promoted only by me and then sporadically because I don't like to plug myself, have netted me over 1200 hits just last 24 hours you can see a real option for getting the word out fast. Hugely popular comics like Sluggy Freelance get over 8.5 million visitors a day (Not that we can reasonably expect to reach that level anytime soon, but 1/10th of that might be possible), imagine if 1% of those liked it well enough to buy a single book. This would not replace gamers introducing the game to friends, cons, etc. It would be another option for getting the word out on top of that.

I'd still like to see evidence of Shadowrun in any way being on the sicklist. (Well, I wouldn't like to see it, but if it's out there I'd prefer to see it than not)

~J

I have no such evidence, besides what I have read on Dumpshock about dwindling supplies of books in stores (I can attest that's the case in my own home area), rare con events, and dying sales.

However I submit that it is not a requirement for this project to benefit Shadowrun as a whole. It's not as if further promotion will hurt things, maybe if Shadowrun is doing good getting even more word out will make it do great.

At least here in Germany SR is still #2 or #3 of the RPG top ten...
(#1 was, is and probably will forever be The Dark Eye, the following places are usually occupied (in varying order) by D&D, WoD and SR.)

Oh yes, I'm always for promoting Shadowrun. I estimate that I've spent over $50 US, probably closer to $100 in purchasing Shadowrun books for friends who are interested. They've in turn started buying their own books. Promotion=good, and shall be pursued wholeheartedly, I just wanted to have clear evidence if this were a serious issue rather than the general pursuit of the expansion of Cool Stuff™.

~J

One of the best ways to promote it is to run events at conventions. Gaming with your friendly neighborhood group is all well and good, but those groups tend to be pretty static (few new players). If a convention booklet contains dozens of SR events, people will take notice. If a convention book makes no mention of SR, people will think the game is dead.

I used to do demos for WWGS and a quick 1-2 hour event, free of charge, can bring players in very quickly. Use a few tricks from various books, make sure the players know which books they are, make sure you know of the merchants who are selling them, and start sending people their way. One quick run filled with success and interesting descriptions can net you two or three people per table. If the retailers are willing to give a discount to anyone who plays in your events (even as little as 5%), then players are much more willing to drop their cash on a game they just enjoyed. I even started running "build your own _____" events where I'd spend 1-2 hours helping people create characters, then I'd run a game for 1-2 hours. People leave with a character sheet in their hands and they're all the more likely to pick up the books.

The problem with a movie is that it could easily be a money pit (e.g. The Dungeons & Dragons movie). Even comics and webcomics are only going to be seen by fans, with very few new players getting pulled into the game through them. You want gamers, make sure they know the game is out there. Taking just a couple hours out of your convention sightseeing can do a lot for your favorite game.

*enters dorktower mode*
Shadowrun Movie.... IT MUST BE MINE!
Shadowrun Figurines.... THEY MUST BE MINE!
Shadowrun LARP Suit.... IT MUST BE MINE!
Shadowrun Posters.... THEY MUST BE MINE!
Shadowrun Comic Books.... THEY MUST BE MINE!
Shadowrun Compter game..... *orgasms* thee-eYMUSTBEMINEMUSTBEMINEMUSTBEMINEMUSTBEMINE!

For larp shadowrun prop.Get clothing,and put pouches on the inside/out side,place light plastic plates,preferably slightly curved.Bingo you have prop shadowrun armour.This is legal, as far as I know.

Perhaps it could be a good idea somethinthing as simple as this...Commandohq gives to the SR players who enlisted some dice, D6 that have the feathered S instead 1 as a "gift" for the SR players who plays the SR games of the commando at conventions. so each player left the game table with a character sheet and a cool dice.

Eh... dice and other gifts require an outlay of capital, however small or large. Custom dice, regardless of quantity purchased, are going to be too expensive to just give away to players in any appreciable quantity. They'd also promote taking advantage of the company ("Want some free dice? Go sit at that table..."). Knick-knacks like pins end up in the garbage or in a junk drawer, in most cases. A fun demo, a character sheet, and a 5-10% off coupon for SR product result in the best cost-benefit numbers. Even the retailers get the benefit of increased business and publicity.

Keep it simple, keep it cheap, and keep the customers moving from the streets to your events to the retailers...

When posting in other RPG message boards, add a link to Dumpshock or FanPro in your sig. Name it "Shadowrun: Where Man meets Magic and Machine" or something like that.

It won't attract thousands of gamers, but it's free, it's easy, and the readers will be gamers, so at least they know what's a RPG.

I'm thinking of doing that in WotC's Forums...

Its easy, grab 3-5 of your friends and drag them to a con (especally ones like GenCon, where DS and friends run a lot of games) and find your friendly SR GM. We love it too ya know.

The biggest stumbling block I've found for getting new people into shadow run is that the system is bulky and hard to manage. The oragniation of the rule books don't help matter either. That aside, I think the setting is easily one of the richest and most intruiging to be found in an RPG, so I would suggest working that angle of it.

The shadowrun books were good promotion. I read those years before I played the RPG.

I've seen different people try to get new players into Shadowrun. The technique that I have seen most effective at getting someone to come back to play their second game of Shadowrun is to have a really good GM at their first game.

Their first game would ideally involve the rule book only a little bit, just enough for the new players to know it exists and that if they want to do more they should get a copy and read part of it. Perhaps look up the range table for submachine guns, or the defaulting to attribute table. Nothing that involves a rules controversy, nothing that involves looking on more than one page.

The first game would ideally involve the GM giving such a wonderful description of the Shadowrun world and the character's place in that world that the player can start roleplaying immediately.

The NPCs should be alive, the settings interesting, and the action easy flowing. The players should walk away from the game and be able to tell their friends the situation they were in and what they did in that situation. The worst thing is for the new player to walk away with a feeling of confusion about what was happening or their part in it.

I am hard at work on a sitcom pilot following the antics of Predator Omega and Nadja Daviar as they try to maintain a relationship despite the madcap machinations of the Horror who lives next door!

true calvin, i think dumpshock is like pandoras box, you go there to solve a question like can invisibility be defeated by thermo? and it opens up a million more, even more difficult problems that your group would have never thought of. I think dumpshock is cool since it is a community though, and allows people to callaborate on things, but really i regret the day i opened it up

also, i think for the sake of the gms sanity it would be best if only he knew it existed, that way no one is asking him questions like whether he has to get rid of all the gear he used on a run because of the serial numbers of something.

The request for "no hijacking!" was as laughable as a request for water in a clean glass. If the people weren't going to give you a clean glass before you asked, they probably won't after. Once you start the thread, you no longer control its direction, so if you want to get it back on topic try nudging it that way. Honestly, I've seen more support of newbies on these boards than derision.
From your join date you seem to be new here, and thus clearly have your own experiences to back yourself up (actually, joining today, you wouldn't have any experience as a poster unless you've switched names), but I haven't observed what you speak of.

~J

*ahem* I'm sorry, Shadowrun is dying?

Most Shadowrun books are in fourth+ printings. I don't know how many books are made in each printing, but still, to even reach 1) a third edition and 2) subsequent printings of those editions is pretty drekking good. I play Hackmaster as well as this and Hackmaster has had two books have a second printing each. That's all. And if Hackmaster is doing well, then Shadowrun is doing excellent.

And I just bought and have in my hand two books.



But honestly, yeah, tell people about the setting for Shadowrun. It's the shining point of the game (the system is kinda bulky, but the setting...gold). When you're on the bus or the train, read one of the sourcebooks. If you've got a desk job that you can read at (security gaurd, receptionist) read it there. Post gaming stories about it on other boards (usually other boards (at least the one's I go to) have a section for just general gaming stories).

But above all, don't give up on it. Period.

(And what's this drek about Dumpshock being elite? I just joined a few days ago and I haven't felt elite-d against.)

Ditaki: *Flameflameflame*

~J, handing out your required elitism.

Postscript: This is, of course, a joke. I feel silly saying that it is, but you can't be too careful

Stand outside your local games hobby store, firing a shotgun into the air to get people's attention, and shout to them that they should play Shadowrun.

Don't forget that gunshots and people running attact the freaks and less socially-concerned people of the world, who'll take Shadowrun easier than the uninformed masses...

The best way to promote Shadowrun is to break into Lockheed-Martin and steal plans for new prototype planes, then publicize them.
I was going to say break into Microsoft and steal the written portions of Longhorn, but I refuse to give a straight line that straight.

~J

In the circles I play in Shadowrun is frequently looked at as "that game". Everyone knows it's there, they know what it's about, and they always say "it might be interesting to play a little". But when you boil it down it ends up being too cyberpunk for the fantasy people, too fantasy for the cyberpunk/action people, too complex(both the system and the world) for the new people, and too foreign a system for the old people.

Really I find it's easiest to get WoD players into it.

Running it at conventions is a great idea. Maybe I'll sign myself up as a master this next GenCon.

The funny thing is, GoldenAri, I haven't seen ANYONE start a non-SR cyberpunk game. It seems to go from modern (WW settings) straight off into Sci-fi, totally skipping that in between bit. I'm sure there are some GURPS games around that contradict me, but as far as I am aware, there are only two rulesets dedicated exclusively to the CP genre (CP2020 and SR) and CP is pretty much dead.

Also, as I've said before, I'd encourage people to look at Cyberpunk or remove magic and decking (for newbies). The only reason I got into shadowrun is because I loved the genre so much I was willing to read through the entire core book, cover to cover, in a couple of days. It's complex, honestly, and my wife got all of 10 pages into the core book before she dropped it. Cyberpunk is d10. As an SR GM, it's easy for us to take that ruleset, throw out the stupid stuff that makes no sense and bring in the SR world. Alternatively, just ignore all the magic and decking rules for a while. If you stick with just the core street sam rules, the game is a LOT less intimidating and its easier to add more aspects as you go on.

I think it would also be nice if someone wrote up a 4-8 page intro adventure. Only allow premade characters, make a straightforward run (Food Fight!) and explain each action step by step, so I, as someone who's never played an RPG in my life, can GM for my n00b friends. Because we made it, we could distribute it for free, which means they only need a handful of standard dice to get a sampler. Advertise it as a FREE RPG first, Shadowrun last, then put it online and on kazaa.

One of the easiest and most realistic ways to promote Shadowrun -- and you wouldn't need to join the Commandos to do so, although you'd get perks for doing so -- is to simply go to your local game store and offer to run demos in whatever space they've got set aside for that. (And if they don't have space for gaming, whether in the store, in the back or upstairs, put up a flyer. And if they don't have space for flyers... well, I question if it's a good game store. But anyway, find a different game store that does have one of those.)

The more people you pull in to the store with good demos, the more people you get interested in the game who may then turn around and buy it while in the store. And if the store runs out of copies, they can order more. Meanwhile, folks can check out other stores or go online.

From what I understand about the Commandos, you can get intro scenarios from them. It can also help give you guidelines on creating your own scenarios. Also, if you don't want to run Food Fight (which is, even with the combat, one of the most fun scenarios if you play it up to the hilt), there's also a very simple, sample adventure in the back of the Shadowrun Quickstart Rules. (Something else you could sell your potential players on, as it's cheaper than the core book and still gives you an idea of how the game is played.)

Conventions are a good idea, but not always feasible unless they're local ones. Going to Gen Con can represent a huge outlay of money that some gamers really can't afford, whereas they might be able to buy the SR core rulebook and perhaps one or two supplements while at LocalAreaCon. With that in mind: running games and demos at the local cons is always a good thing if you want to raise interest at least in your area alone. You get to attract interest that you may not otherwise be able to just from your local game store alone. While there, giving the URL for the Shadowrun website, as well as Dumpshock "in case you have questions that you need an immediate answer to," isn't a bad idea. Show them there's lots of fan support, and not just life support.

I'm planning on getting interest in SR re-kindled in my area by running Shadowrun:Missions games at local stores and home games. I'm still waiting to hear when the first module will be ready though.... Grrr...

You can read more about it here:

http://invision.dumpshock.com/index.php?showforum=20

Anything relating to mass-media of Shadowrun: novels, movies, comic books, anime series is the domain of WizKids, not FanPro. FanPro has the RPG license - nothing else.

Some posts ago y spoke about some SR dice...well, after some researching (and speaking with one of the 4 companies (yep, only 4) in the world that make dices, thats the result...

1000 dices, with the logo you like in one of the sides(of course remember that is a dice!!) cost 80 euros, and as they must make a mold especially for them...so that are 180 euros more (but you must pay that ONLY the first time, if you order more dice you dont need to pay the mold again, only the dice price) ...so, you have 1000 dice with a SR logo for 360 euros (480$)...after 2 months you order another 1000 dice...it only cost 80 euros(101$)...

180+80=260, not 360.

dice=plural; die=singular

How interesting. What's the contact information for this company? We might be able to, if we got FanPro's approval (or would it be WizKids to use the image?), pool together and get the mould made and then order a few batches to distribute as desired...

~J