Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Best build for a jumped-in rigger - technomancer, adept or mundane?
Dumpshock Forums > Discussion > Shadowrun
Tyro
Technomancers get 5 Matrix IP's natively, but take a Resonance hit for 'ware. Adepts take a Magic hit for 'ware, but that's nowhere nearly as debilitating as a Resonance hit. Mundanes don't have to worry about Essence so much.

I'm also interested in ideas for preventing the breakup of signal. I saw a great idea for Chameleon-Coated iBalls with gecko grip and communications lasers recently. Have them roll up the walls (or have someone stick them there) and set up an essentially undetectable whisker-laser system to keep communication even through heavy jamming and/or radar-opaque materials (like that stupid wallpaper they introduced).

For that matter, could I get a breakdown of pros and cons of jumping in vs. tactical rigging? Riggers have interested me for a long time, but I still feel that I need advice on how to build a really good one.

Thanks in advance!
Udoshi
The rigger in my current game is a technomancer. From what I've seen, being able to replace a drone's Pilot program with a sprite - especially one you can roll up any autosoft you desire for it - is invaluable. TMs are also able to thread programs and options for them on the fly, can help out. The downside is that TMs are karma intensive to make good. Commlink deckers are better from the start, and its significantly easier to get a straight six-stat commlink.

There are three kinds of rigging to keep in mind. Autonomous, letting the drone do its thing. Remote control, or the captain's chair as I've heard it called, in which you use the Command program for everything. Which is great, because its fairly easy to get a significant dice pool cheaply with a good Command program and a specialization. There's also Jumping In, which can net you the hot sim bonus as well as the control rig bonus. There's a nice table on Page 247 of the 4th edition core book that spells out what you need to roll for common tests under each control method, and is certainly worth looking at.

Take a look at this thread, and this post specifically, should help.
http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?show...mp;#entry608053


Personally, I'm curious how electronic warfare comes into the game for riggers. Spoofing, jamming and other tricks that life easier, if anyon has any suggestions.
McAllister
Skinweb array is easy and you look like a douche but you don't get jammed so hard. But does it help Mancers?
toolbox
QUOTE (McAllister @ Aug 28 2009, 05:34 AM) *
Skinweb array is easy and you look like a douche but you don't get jammed so hard. But does it help Mancers?

I don't see why it wouldn't. The TM will probably need to plug the 'web into some other device on his person and route his traffic through that (or else develop the skinlink echo), but other than that it should be fine. Also, it goes under the clothes - so you look normal unless you strip.
LurkerOutThere
There's a technomancer only merit in unwired, more then metahuman I think it is that gives them the ability to jump in and out of drones as a free action. Can be usefull and allows for some cheese.
Tyro
QUOTE (LurkerOutThere @ Aug 28 2009, 12:18 PM) *
There's a technomancer only merit in unwired, more then metahuman I think it is that gives them the ability to jump in and out of drones as a free action. Can be usefull and allows for some cheese.

Actually, that Edge is not restricted to 'mancers (unless they changed it in errata?)
LurkerOutThere
I could have sworn it was, but I don't have my books with me at the moment.
Tyro
QUOTE (LurkerOutThere @ Aug 28 2009, 02:23 PM) *
I could have sworn it was, but I don't have my books with me at the moment.

It doesn't mention it in the edge's description. I checked before I posted.
toolbox
Nope, MTM is unrestricted, and a damn good investment of 5 BP for riggers of all stripes to boot.
LurkerOutThere
I've given your question some thought and here's the basic question. If all your going to do is Rig or Matrix then technomancer is likely the way to go. If you want to be a bit more versatile then I would go with a cybered "mundane"

If MtM is not restricted I would definitely take it regardless of what build you go with.

Jaid
if all you want to do is rigging, then you could cyber up a technomancer for a pretty strong character. if you want a rigger who is also part hacker (enough to be able to defend their drones from a hacker) i would be more inclined to suggest a mundane, as the technomancer will be way too tight of a squeeze in terms of BP.

on the other hand, you could also try a latent technomancer rigger, allowing you to pick up all the skills that would be fully compatible with technomantic rigging, allow you to be somewhat competent outside of rigging, and have the options for some nice echoes later on in your career that will boost you to new levels of awesome...
Tyro
How would one go about building a latent-technomancer rigger? I have very little experience with technomancers, I'm afraid :-/

[Edit:]
My current build:
[ Spoiler ]
toolbox
One big issue with your skills as presented above is that ECCM is handled by Electronic Warfare rather than Hacking. You'll probably want to switch those ratings around if you plan to avoid getting jammed (or jam your opponents in turn). Hacking is useful for stealing drones, but that's not usually a rigger's main goal. Your best general defense against drone hacking is encryption, beefy Firewall ratings and IC on all your drones. Modifying your commlink and drones to transmit on nonstandard frequencies also helps a lot.


If you decide to go with the technomantic option, I wouldn't bother making it a latent; that opens up more options, true, but once your TM abilities start developing it's going to change your rigging methods a lot. It would probably be simpler to choose either a TM or a mundane rigger during chargen and stick with it.

If you want to make a riggermancer, I'd suggest maxing Resonance, your Matrix attributes (soft-cap these) and as many relevant complex forms as possible, especially Encrypt and ECCM. Invest a chunk into the Software skill for threading and sprite compiling. As a bonus you get Biofeedback Filter for free, making it a lot safer to jump into your drones (since as a TM you're always in hotsim).

You'll probably want to choose the Dronomancer stream from Unwired (because it gives you access to really useful sprites for rigging) and a rigging-friendly Paragon like Daedalus, and pick up any rigging-related qualities you can find. Don't skimp on your rigging-related skills, but be aware that you probably won't have more than 10 points left over for any other area of expertise. So choose what you want to rig (vehicles vs. drones) and how you want to do it (jumping in vs. Command) and build for that first.

Then it's a matter of using your sprites as middle management for your drones and EW needs, letting you delegate less essential aspects of the role to intelligent assistants while you handle the bigger tasks yourself. You can probably afford to skimp on your drones' Pilot ratings, since they'll likely be under sprite direction rather than trying to figure things out for themselves. After you submerge, access to Echoes will give you things like a control rig equivalent or the ability to rig any device, even if it's not rigger-adapted.

That's a rough idea of how I'd do it, anyway.
DuctShuiTengu
QUOTE (Tyro @ Aug 29 2009, 04:58 AM) *
How would one go about building a latent-technomancer rigger? I have very little experience with technomancers, I'm afraid :-/

[Edit:]
My current build:
[ Spoiler ]


A suggestion, if you're planning on more-or-less keeping the build you've put together so far: combine your various Mechanic skills into the Skill Group. You're currently spending 40 BP to get the skills that make up said group at 4/4/2/0, when spending 40 points on the skill group would get you all of them at 4.
Tyro
QUOTE (DuctShuiTengu @ Aug 29 2009, 01:44 AM) *
A suggestion, if you're planning on more-or-less keeping the build you've put together so far: combine your various Mechanic skills into the Skill Group. You're currently spending 40 BP to get the skills that make up said group at 4/4/2/0, when spending 40 points on the skill group would get you all of them at 4.

*facepalm*

Will do. I'm seriously considering a 'mancer, though. Not as powerful, maybe - they take a LONG time to get as powerful as hackers, especially with the new Attribute costs - but I like the flavor better. Besides, they're more versatile.
gtjormungand
QUOTE (Tyro @ Aug 29 2009, 03:46 AM) *
Will do. I'm seriously considering a 'mancer, though. Not as powerful, maybe - they take a LONG time to get as powerful as hackers, especially with the new Attribute costs - but I like the flavor better. Besides, they're more versatile.

What?! How in the world are technomancers more "versatile"? Starting out, a hacker can be exceptionally skilled at all matrix interactions at the same time and STILL have BP available to invest in meatworld or rigging using cyberware. A technomancer is incredibly limited to start with, takes all of their karma to become as good as the hacker was out of the gate (though eventually exceeding the hacker), and then has nothing left to start down another section of the game. A hacker could use all the karma and become slightly more skilled at their matrix abilities and use the rest to become skilled in different aspects of the world. And then there is nuyen advancement, which the technomancer could conceivably spend on drones and the like, but the hacker could do the same and spend some of it on cyberware advancement.
McAllister
@Toolbox: I thought ECCM just subtracted from the ECM's rating. When do you have to roll Electronic Warfare, other than cryptographical applications?

@gtjormungand: Technomancers have the advantages of agents-on-the-fly and threading up anything they lack, but for the most part the excel above and beyond what a hacker could ever hope to do at 1 or 2 things, like your Threaded rating 12 Stealth CF.
gtjormungand
QUOTE (McAllister @ Aug 29 2009, 11:30 AM) *
@gtjormungand: Technomancers have the advantages of agents-on-the-fly and threading up anything they lack, but for the most part the excel above and beyond what a hacker could ever hope to do at 1 or 2 things, like your Threaded rating 12 Stealth CF.

I'm not saying that they don't. I'm just disagreeing with the use of the word "versatile" to describe the 99.9%-matrix-centric technomancers, which is what happens when following the progression that allows one to hit those extremes.
McAllister
Oh! Yeah, the difference is matrix-versatile (as in, can do anything in the matrix) vs. meat-versatile (as in, can do anything in the matrix or meatworld).

You know what? Fuck da star, make an AI.
toolbox
QUOTE (McAllister @ Aug 29 2009, 09:30 AM) *
@Toolbox: I thought ECCM just subtracted from the ECM's rating. When do you have to roll Electronic Warfare, other than cryptographical applications?

You're right that you don't actually roll anything when using ECCM; I worded that quite badly. What I meant was that if ECCM, jamming, decryption, etc. are relevant concerns for a character - like they are for a rigger - EW is the more generally useful skill as compared to Hacking.
Tyro
From what I've read, Electronic Warfare isn't actually utilized much. FYI, I meant Matrix-versatile thanks to threading and sprites.

[Edit:] What 'ware, if any, should a technomancer get?
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Dumpshock Forums © 2001-2012