Technically jumping into a vehicle is always remote operation as you transfer your consciousness from your mind to your commlink's node to the node of the vehicle, no matter how many nodes inbetween have to relay your and the vehicle's data. Is that still true, if you are sitting in the riggable vehicle? Or is this too much bending the rules?

Would any other specialization of the piloting skills make sense for a rigger?

If a player in my game wanted to take that specialty, I wouldn't let him define it by how the network traffic was handled. As you point out, there's always some routing involved in rigging. Remote means, well, remote. Distant. So no, I wouldn't let it apply to rigging the vehicle carrying your meat.

As an aside, your consciousness doesn't go anywhere; it's always in your mind. All you're doing is setting up an elaborate interface between your brain and the rigged vehicle. If your consciousness actually went elsewhere, the brain would be unnecessary for the process until you returned. Even in full VR you can still manipulate your body (at -6) if need be.

But that would be a house rule IMO, it doesn't matter vere your meatbody is remote operating is still remote operating even if your meat happens to be onboard the vehicle your remote operating.

It's not a house rule so much as an individual interpretation of the applicability of a specialization, really. I mean, this "rule" applies to literally nothing else, and it's a judgement call that has to be made one way or another unless there's something in RAW about it (which there may be; I honestly don't know at the moment). The alternatives would be to either:
a) not allow it; or
b) allow it to apply 100% of the time.

Neither of those seem very appealing where a specialization is concerned.

The book description of Pilot Groundcraft says the skill is used "to control ground vehicles without legs, whether remotely or in person." "in person" and "manually" seem like two different things to me. Remotely = not in the vehicle. In person = in the vehicle. IMO.

For me, I'd give the dice for every action taken to Command a device. The Common Rigger/Drone Test table is, I think, telling here. It splits those tests into three categories: Jumped-in Rigger, Autonomous Drone Activity, and Remote-Controlled Drone Activity. That last column is the one that this specialization is good for.

In other words, you're good at sending commands to the drone's Dogbrain and having it understand what you mean.

Yeah, that's another interpretation I'd allow. As long as it's not applicable to 98%+ of all possible situations, I'm pretty easygoing on stuff like that.

EDIT: But isn't dogbrain operation what the Autonomous column is for?

i would personally tend to treat remote operation as meaning 'using the control device matrix action', but that's just me.

SR4A, p 245 - Remote Control - The Command Program replaces the Attribute for all tests. (The table that Dash referenced is an extension of this rule)

By choosing Remote Operations, it basically means that the Rigger is relying on her Command Program rather than her Reaction.

Actually even that fraction would be alright by RAW, as long as there is another fraction larger than zero that makes up the rest of the skill. Just look at the semi-automatic pistol and SCUBA/[strike]LBA[/strike]* (depending on how diving develops in the next 60 years) specializations of the Pistol and Diving Skills. Yes, there are other aspects of the skill but those specializations make up the vast majority of applications.

Interesting opinion on Remote Control. From a rules lawyer's point of view, is remote control the same thing as remote operation?


*woops confused the liquid breathing apparatus with a rebreather. The latter is probably more likely to be common in 2070. Strangely there is no specialization for that. Maybe It's because there is no equipment in Arsenal

That's true. I guess I really mean 100%, and I waffled on putting that in my post. Consider it revised.


I don't know that either term gets a specific crunchy definition (Edit: Remote control does; remote operation does not), so that question may be unanswerable. I know that a text search for "remote operation" in the SR4A pdf turns up no hits apart from the specializations in the Pilot skills, meaning that the term is never formally defined in that book. Grr.

I guess treating them as equivalent is probably the most reasonable idea though, which means I have to reverse my earlier position - remote control/remote operation means the use of a Command program to control a device as opposed to jumping in, issuing orders or manual controls, so doing it from within the vehicle in question should be legit.

Just like initiative enhancers. Grrr.

I think my interpretation may even be the intended one, since there are no specialization mentioned for being jumped in. On the other hand the lists are not intended to be all-encompassing, nor are different specializations mutually exclusive.

Argh. I had a long reply typed here, but the internet ate it.

Short version - I'm pretty sure remote operation/remote control means Matrix-based control that isn't jumping in. Both SR4A and Unwired use the word "remote" to describe drone control methods, but neither uses it for jumping in. Here's a breakdown:

SR4A p.245/Unwired p. 104
Issuing Commands/Issue Remote Commands
Remote Control/Remote Control
Jumping In/Jump In

So whether or not issuing commands counts as remote operation (which, for the record, I don't think it does), jumping in almost certainly doesn't. It kinda makes sense, too - jumping in is about the most immediate, direct form of control there is. It's not very remote at all; even the name indicates this.

Like you said, though, the listed specializations aren't the only possibilities. I think "jumping in" would be a totally legit spec for any Pilot skill, but I don't think it falls under "remote operation."

Sorry, i didn't realise,when i posted, that you didn't understand that remote operation means using a command program to remotly operate the vehicle.

Yeah, no worries; I was away from my books at the time and working off Dakka Dakka's definition of remote operation in the original post, which is slightly different from the RAW version. Having reviewed the issue since, I think I'm caught up.