So I was GMing my group yesterday (who are fairly new to SR) and they are finally getting the "shoot people in the face for money" aspect.

They had to get into a rock concert and didn't want to pay anything. So one person was able to sneak in by avoiding the guards, one person mugged a concert goer, took her ticket and left her unconscious body in the alley while he strolled into the event.

Then while they were in the concert retrieving the data they needed, while engaging a mook security guard (which they could have simply knocked out) the guy doing the talking was able to pull his katana from where he had it concealed (which I gave him a penalty for drawing it) and was able to do a called shot to slice his throat while drawing, then he pulled him into the room the guard was guarding and left him bleeding behind the couch. The guy wasn't dead just in shock from the damage that he took, and the player never even blinked and checked to see if he was still alive.

While this was going on another player that was in the concert main area backing up the person doing the above skulduggery. Since it was a loud rock concert and the mosh pit was overcrowded a fight broke out and started spreading through the entire concert. He took this opportunity to find somebody that looked like they had better than normal attire and shoot them in the back of the head with his pistol and riffle the guy while was bleeding on the concrete. He took his commlink, and some miscellaneous jewlery.

I'm so proud of them, my babies are finally growing up.

Plus when the rest of the team that hadn't been with the two at the concert because they were working on some of their contacts asked them what happened, the guy that slit the guards throat said this "Yea he's probably not dead so somebody probably found him before he died so "No harm, no foul""

And I made certain that when they drove away from the concert I made mention that there wasn't a woman laying in the alley and then let the players know about ghoul's, organleggers, and everything that could possibly happen to unconscious people left in alleys. The guy that knocked her out now feels bad about it.

Interesting. I suppose my main question would be, did everyone have fun? Other than that, I am a little curious if you as a GM made note of the bodies and if they have any one who would care that they were harmed and if those NPCs have the means to come after the PCs, even if it is just filing a report with Lonestar/Knight? Also, did the PCs have viable non-violent options available, stun damage track filling or charisma stuff perhaps? Would a NPC still want revenge if they were only knocked unconscious with less Physical damage track?

Speaking of Stun and Physical tracks, I haven't figured out yet if the negatives from the two tracks stack or not.

Good for you, just wait until they start PvPing each other.

They do. Imagine having a raging migraine headache. Now imagine that, but you've also got a broken arm and a few bullet holes in your chest.

Ahh thanks, I appreciate it. I thought it made sense like that. Does that mean to really down an opponent you want to try to fill both tracks, like even if you fill the Physical track first, just to really rub it in for their final moments as the bleed out and go into shock you try to fill their Stun track too? I'm picturing some Runners staring in horror as one of them uses slap patch or electricity or something on a downed NPC muttering something like "Survive this...". That reminds me, I better reread stabilizing, makes me wonder if those negatives from the tracks end up being against that... Hmm, wasn't there something about Physical damage turning into Stun damage if it doesn't bypass armor...

Sorry, now I feel like I have derailed the thread. Still curious about my earlier questions on the consequences those player characters might face and if other viable non-lethal options are available to them as well.

AFAIK, the negatives from damage don't apply to the Stabilize test unless the GM is feeling vindictive and/or "all tests except for resistance" happens to include Stabilization. That said, most teams should carry a Medibot-3000 with them (from the Essential Gear thread).

I'm glad you're happy with the way your players are taking to SR, but as others have said I would encourage you to make a note of those loose ends (the guard and the girl in the alley) and bring those back to haunt the players. You need real world style consequences in SR to keep your players from stomping through any challenge you give them with guns blazing once they figure out how lethal combat can be. You don't want that player's default solution to every situation to become "I slash his throat with my katana" (even if it is cool every now and again).

Plus, in SR consequences are essentially the equivalent of Alignments in the Game That Causes Cancer. You don't go around being good because you're a "Lawful Good" character or shooting people in the face for no good reason because you're "Chaotic Evil". Your choices are based on how the world will respond, and eventually there should be consequences for everything...

Sounds like last Tuesday...

Ah the wonders of different play styles/groups. I get proud when my groups stop doing things like that to get into concerts. Most of my groups learn that a good run is one where you never strike a blow or pull a weapon.

On the other hand, glad to see another ref enjoying themselves.

Yeah...


Speaking of consequences, a guy with katana is pretty obvious, and when he cuts someone else's throat open with it, you have to be oblivious not to notice it happen. The body, blood and people trying to move away from the guy with the sword would have been a big neon sign for event security.

Knives are better for that sort of thing...

I see your THIS, and I raise you a THAT.

Fun. That reminds me of the Hitman 2 level where you attend the party at the German embassy in Russia. Especially if and when your hit went south on that level.

Sounds like you are having fun. Bravo.

Other people advised you to "track the loose ends." I'd say consider what style of game you are playing and then decide what to to do with the loose ends. A little indiscriminate ultra-violence as flavor and RP isn't a bad thing if you want that from your players. It sounds like you do.

Before anyone tries to assail me for it, yes violence can be used for roleplaying development. They aren't mutually exclusive.

There is certainly nothing wrong with going down that road. But many GMs find themselves frustrated later when they try to branch out and the only thing the players know is how to "hack and slash" their way through problems. Like all things, the GM has to strike the right balance.

OP: Are you and your players psychotic, or are you just being sarcastic?

Although loose ends can and should be exploited for fun and profit, I think people tend to overdo them in rpg campaigns, victims of random acts of violence typically have little to no recourse.

And Krypter, perhaps you enjoy playing Rainbow Bright & Carebears but other people remember that in the Sixth World Bullets are cheap and life is worthless.

As eidolon points out, its just the classic black trenchcoat versus pink mohawk cyberpunk situation. My group tends to go with the trenchcoat, but if mohawk is what makes your table tick than go for it. The system supports both, and neither is wrong. Thats what I love about PnP, the dynamics of the world work the way you want them to. In my game, a few too many of those creates a corp strike team or gets you an APB for the armed psychopath on the loose.

Quite frankly though, until the katana it was actually not too over the top for me. Heavy handed, but nothing that would cause much of a problem...unless you wanted the concert goer who got jumped for their tickets to be a ganger who'd look for revenge...

Again, either way. Important thing is the group is on the same page as to how the world works...

Congrats.

Personally I like my There Is No Kill Like Overkill and Kill It With Fire approach. I'm not a very clever role player, and my kind of fun is when I get to do things; talk for me is quite boring (especially when someone else is doing all of it). I'm not subtle, so I get my kicks where I can.

(My current PnP RPG character has a gun that effectively fires no-spread anti-personal mines at short ranges, the only other PC that out damages me is a guy who can throw 900 Kg rocks)

What can I say? I get "testy" when people question the mental health of Pink Mohawk Players.

Ah yes, memories. Your first robbery-murder is always the one you remember most fondly.

If that is in Shadowrun, i want to know how to do that! ^^

And the second lesson is: if the run could be good, it would not have been outsourced to an expendable force in the first place.

Well up to this point it had been a little hard to get them out of the mindset that they weren't the good guys (with the exception of one person they are all previous players of the game that causes cancer) and there wasn't alignments.

The person that got mugged might have lived and could come back to haunt them, but it was a run down industrial sector (the concert was in a converted warehouse and advertised to the low and street area's because the musician liked to keep in touch with his pep's) and I'm figuring that people get mugged there all the time, and the concert was VERY overbooked so it had probably happened several times.

And the musician was an upcoming rock star so I'm just going to have the record label put down to a botched extraction from a rival label. The security that he had around him and the stage was better than what was on his dressing room and backstage. So they just figured that when he started coming off-stage they saw the opposition and changed their plans.

A couple of hours after they hit the concert one of the players said that he was going to look for any news info on the mugging and the concert, I let him find about 56 muggings that were reported from the same time period (implying that it happened all the time), and on a music news blog that there had been a botched extraction backstage and that the musician was seriously considering changing his plan to keep giving concerts to the background he came from because of it. Which should any of the gangers that seriously followed him find out that it was because of this team's efforts then they might be having problems.

Very cool! I am proud of your players too, defeating the mindset that comes with the other P&P game is tough. In my experience I am surprised though, when I experienced the switch over the other players had no problem with shooting and looting, to the point where they would forget they were in a danger zone just to strip the poor sec guard they just sniped of his earthly possessions.

Those consequences sound pretty damn cool as well, you should be proud of yourself as well in being the fun setting for the mayhem.

It's not. It's this game called Alpha Omega (sadly their viral marketing was poorly timed and coincided with another ad campaign) that used d20 as their base system and made it better. So stats are still somewhat D&D like (human average 10, maximum 18, PC average 12) but has a set range: 0 to 100. The character I mentioned above has a strength of...36, plus he was on drugs (46), had a slight magical buff (56), and then wielded two strength categories higher (effective 76) taking the penalties. Had he gotten to throw the rock at something it would have done 5d10 x2 damage; my "anti-personal mine gun" does 2d10 x2 per cartridge at a full auto rate of fire of 4 cartridges a pass (right now, that's every 2 seconds). All of us have about 40 hit points (strength monkey has 53), not counting armor (which subtracts damage per hit).

I should note that we're only on the level of fighting category 4-5 monsters on a scale of 1 to 10 (starting points characters are about on par with category 3). Category 10 monsters have devastated whole cities (it should also be said that every monster printed that lives in the ocean is category 10).

Hrm, then i guess i will have to stay with my Troll Concept in SR3 that did 28M Damage with Hand-Blades and 22M Damage with a Bow.
Bad/Good enough i guess ^^

Just had my third session with these players. So far all they have been on was milk runs, so I didn't have the Johnson's screw with them. This time I'm running them through a modified version of "On the Run", and they just got to the point where they beat off the other runner team after Loomis. They question Loomis some about the mini-disc, and intimidate him into giving it up. And of course as they were leaving him behind one of the players asked him why he stole it in the first place.

And he said "Stole it? My father left it to me in his will with the rest of the crap he had left to him in this work when he croaked a couple of months ago. I've been trying to sell it to hopefully turn my luck around because that's some ultra-rare drek.."

There was complete silence for about three seconds, the mage whips up Analyze Truth and starts asking him some more questions. And once they get Loomis's story verified two of the players say almost simultaneously "You mean the Johnson lied to us?" with absolute shock in their voices. It was priceless.

Nice.

So very priceless. Thank you for sharing that awesome sauce.

Absofragginlutely mega-ditto

That is Awesometown. Its very difficult to introduce intrigue into a game without spoon-feeding it to the players. Very artfully done, and kudos to them for picking up on it.

But leaving a trail of unconscious bodies from SnS rounds is so much fun!



But... but.... I play Splinter Cell/Metal Gear style. They event put Sam Fisher on the cover of SR4A to validate the Splinter Cell style.