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Am I missing something, or do Cybernetic Replacements for the Metahuman Cardiovascular system not exist? Specifically, why are there no rules for replacing a characters Heart and or Lungs? Is it just assumed in the Fluff somewhere that although these replacements exist they are strictly like for like replacements which offer no improvement over the parts a character was born with?

I would like to hear the thoughts of the community on these issues.

Do upgraded replacements exist and I have just failed to locate them?

Did upgraded heart and lung replacements exist in SR1, 2, or 3?

Is there a game mechanics reason to exclude them from the wide array of Cyberware already in the game?

Is there a 6th world Fluff reason to exclude them?

Mechanically, If you were to implement them into your game (or if you have already done so) what stats would you provide for them (Including Nuyen cost, availability, etc.)?

Fluff wise what effects would they have? For example, If a character replaced his lungs would he or she sound like Darth Vader?

Is there anything else you can think of on this issue? Any other missing Cyberware that you find conspicuously absent from the game?

Thank you all in advance for your answers and thoughts.

Grim Dark Knight
milk ducks
SR4 allows you to replace a single lung with a refillable, internal air tank, but that's the only heart or lung replacement I can think of off the top of my head. I'd have to imagine that doctors in the Sixth World have a dizzying array of ways to improve metaphysical anatomy far beyond what few options are allowed in the book. The ones you find in the book are just among some of the most mechanically-advantageous in game terms. I don't think a character would have any issue finding a replacement heart if his ticker happened to go bad or something -- I mean, if they have the biotechnological savvy to replace a man's legs with hydraulic jacks, and to culture bits of brain mass and stitch it into your skull for increased logical capacity, and to, like, fully and successfully clone actual metahumans, it goes without saying that they should also be able to replace your heart / lungs / liver / kidneys / etc, you might just not get a mechanical bonus for such an operation.

Doc Byte
I'd say there's simply no need for permanent cyber-replacements when you can just clone a new organ. And if you want to enhance your heart or lungs go for bioware or gentech.
QUOTE (Doc Byte @ Sep 13 2009, 12:41 PM) *
I'd say there's simply no need for permanent cyber-replacements when you can just clone a new organ.

Unless you're dirt poor and can't afford the 6k for a cloned Type O organ.

My suggestion would be a price of 2000 nuyen.gif and an Essence cost of 0.5, at free availability.
This makes cybernetic organ replacements (even the alpha grade version) a viable alternative for the poor, but the steep Essence cost means that everyone who can afford it will still have an incentive to go for clonal parts.
Doc Byte
QUOTE (Rasumichin @ Sep 13 2009, 03:38 PM) *
Unless you're dirt poor and can't afford the 6k for a cloned Type O organ.

Maybe you simply die when you're too poor.
Or you get indebted to your local oyabun and die when you cannot keep up with your payments.
QUOTE (Doc Byte)
I'd say there's simply no need for permanent cyber-replacements when you can just clone a new organ.

Yup, vat-grown organs. Mechanically, there's no "benefit or bonus" from having a replacement part that does exactly the same thing, so you don't waste space statting it out. You'll note a distinct lack of a cybernetic pancreas, kidney, and appendix, too.

QUOTE (Doc Byte @ Sep 13 2009, 07:55 AM) *
Maybe you simply die when you're too poor.

Yup. The way it works today is pretty damn dystopian, really. I don't see anyone really doing a whole lot to make it "better" or easier on the poor in the world of Shadowrun. You're a poor ork living in the Barrens and your liver is going? Sorry.

The general consensus so far appears to be that such replacements do exist but they are simply exchanging like for like, with no appreciable performance being gained. Also it seems that cloned organ replacement appears to be the most popular. It would seem to me that since the Artificial Heart was one of the very first Cybernetic organs to be developed IRL, that it would have to have advanced pretty far by the 2070s. Replacement Lungs are a bit more of a stretch, but with some of the other replacements, like the previously mentioned oxygen tank, it seems possible that in the 6th world they can be replaced as well.

Another couple of questions along the same lines,

What if, a character had Replaced his Torso, Arms and Legs with Full Cybernetic Replacement limbs, and had also replaced both heart and lungs with Cybernetic replacements, so now all of the muscles involved in running, for example, have been entirely replaced. Would such a hypothetical (not to mention very expensive) character ever get fatigued? Or would he be able to sprint at full speed pretty much indefinitely?

Would having just the Heart and lungs replaced with Cybernetics not increase a characters endurance in some way? Would he not be less likely to get winded from running etc.?

Keep the comments coming please.

Thank you,

Grim Dark Knight
There's a lot of bio- and geneware augmentations that allow fatigue resistance.
The Bicardiac Quality from Runner's Companion may also prove insightful in this matter.
If you want performance-enhancing cyberhearts and -lungs, you could model them along these examples.
Simply keep in mind that cybernetics are cheaper, but cost more Essence than their bio equivalents.
You may want to compare examples such as Muscle Replacement vs Muscle Toner/Muscle Augmentation, Wired Reflexes vs Synaptic Booster or Dermal Armor vs Orthoskin as models to extrapolate from.
But think of the possibilities! You can get a super-appendix with built in signal jammer and smartlink or a weaponized super-liver with built in pistol or the latest pancreas drone that will quickly exit your body to stab someone with it's built in spurs. biggrin.gif
I guess he means something like the stuff from Syndicate.
Cyber-Heart, Cyber-"Brain", Cyber-Lungs.
But all those things would do can allready be achieved in Shadowrun, through use of Biotech.
Not Cyber-Tech, mind you.
Doc Byte
QUOTE (GrimDarkKnight @ Sep 13 2009, 06:03 PM) *
It would seem to me that since the Artificial Heart was one of the very first Cybernetic organs to be developed IRL, that it would have to have advanced pretty far by the 2070s.

Or they're simply gone. Telegraphs where the first RL 'phones' but today we're using cell phones which are gone in SR and replaced by comlinks.
Yup. Consider that when RL artificial hearts were developed, we hadn't (and still haven't) perfected just growing new ones.
The last issue to resolve; does anybody want to make a statline (including cost, availability, and essence loss) for a generic cyberware organ replacement?
Lok1 :)
Yes you can home grow your organic organs but sometimes their chrom counterparts can be more duriable or powerfull.
Powerful, yes. I can imagine a chrome heart having more throughput or efficiency over a biological heart. Durability, no. Ideally, a cultured heart or lung should have perfect biocompatability compared against a cyberware equivalent, and would be supported by the body. Somewhere, somehow, a cybered heart is going to require maintnance or software update.
There's always synthacardium for heart replacement. If you want a complicated alternative, here's one: Cyberpunk 2020 has cyber (and bio) replacements for all kinds of things Shadowrun lacks. Plastic Warriors converted their stats to SR2/SR3. They weren't balanced even for those editions and they certainly don't match SR4(A), but you can take the ideas and run with them. It's not much different from inventing it yourself, but at least you have a precedent of some kind to work from.
Cool, thank you all for the answers. I will lookup the conversions from Cyberpunk 2020 but will probably end up looking into Bioware options instead of Cyber. My GM wanted me to find more specific references (even examples of this being done in previous editions or a really, really well thought out Fluff justification, would have been enough and he would have done up some stats on something for me to purchase) before he allowed me to get a Mechanical advantage from having a Chrome Heart and lungs. I was planning on eventually getting Full Deltaware replacement limbs (Assuming the character lives long enough) and going for the whole "I am a tireless machine, immune to fatigue" angle, but if the Chrome does not exist for a full Cardiovascular replacement that performs better than the original meat parts then my original end goal is not possible. It appears however that such 'ware does not really exist in this setting, as such things as cloned organ replacements have superseded the old fashioned Artificial hearts that we have today. So I will have to rethink my direction.

Thank you all for your responses on this topic.

Grim Dark Knight
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