A character I'm currently building will be using a GM-Nissan Doberman perimeter-patrol crawler, and maybe I'm missing something, but its stats just aren't matching up with the information I'm seeing. Maybe you guys can help? As I understand it, the Doberman (being equipped with a weapon mount) is considered a Security class vehicle, and has a Device Rating of 4. This means that his Matrix Attributes (Response, Signal, Firewall, and Pilot) should all be equal to that rating, right? The listed Pilot rating for the Doberman in the Street Gear section is 3 (in both SR4core and SR4-20th); is that an oversight, or is it meant to be 3 because of some special circumstance that I'm missing?
Also, the Arsenal supplement says that the Doberman comes standard-equipped with Walker Mode, which, on top of halving overall speed, also increases the vehicle's Handling by 1. But, again, both SR4 books list the Doberman's handling as 0; is this an oversight, or is it meant to be 0 because of some innate handling penalty on medium-sized drones that I'm not seeing?
-milk.
Full Version: Some questions about Drones
The Device Rating only covers the Firewall, Response, Signal, and System ratings for the drone, the pilot rating is not determined by the Device Rating.
Not sure what you are looking at in Arsenal, but there is no writeup for the Doberman there, it is only in the BBB Vehicles and Drones section, and it is a crawler, not a walker. The Doberman is listed in the compiled tables in Arsenal, but it still shows a handling of 0 there.
Not sure what you are looking at in Arsenal, but there is no writeup for the Doberman there, it is only in the BBB Vehicles and Drones section, and it is a crawler, not a walker. The Doberman is listed in the compiled tables in Arsenal, but it still shows a handling of 0 there.
Corebook states that "Pilot is used in place of System for vehicles, drones, and agents". It also states that it provides "the same function as System". I would assume that means it has a Pilot rating equal to the System rating it would normally have if it weren't a vehicle, since the two attributes are essentially interchangeable.
Also, Arsenal pg.106 provides a table labeled "Core Rulebook Vehicles - Standard Upgrades", where it lists the vehicles from the Core book and shows what Arsenal-listed upgrades they're assumed to have. It says that the GM-Nissan Doberman should have Walker Mode, a Weapon Mount (External, Fixed, Remote Control), as well as Clearsight and Targetting Autosofts at Rating 3 each.
-milk.
Also, Arsenal pg.106 provides a table labeled "Core Rulebook Vehicles - Standard Upgrades", where it lists the vehicles from the Core book and shows what Arsenal-listed upgrades they're assumed to have. It says that the GM-Nissan Doberman should have Walker Mode, a Weapon Mount (External, Fixed, Remote Control), as well as Clearsight and Targetting Autosofts at Rating 3 each.
-milk.
QUOTE (milk ducks @ Sep 14 2009, 07:33 PM) 
Corebook states that "Pilot is used in place of System for vehicles, drones, and agents". It also states that it provides "the same function as System". I would assume that means it has a Pilot rating equal to the System rating it would normally have if it weren't a vehicle, since the two attributes are essentially interchangeable.
Also, Arsenal pg.106 provides a table labeled "Core Rulebook Vehicles - Standard Upgrades", where it lists the vehicles from the Core book and shows what Arsenal-listed upgrades they're assumed to have. It says that the GM-Nissan Doberman should have Walker Mode, a Weapon Mount (External, Fixed, Remote Control), as well as Clearsight and Targetting Autosofts at Rating 3 each.
-milk.
Also, Arsenal pg.106 provides a table labeled "Core Rulebook Vehicles - Standard Upgrades", where it lists the vehicles from the Core book and shows what Arsenal-listed upgrades they're assumed to have. It says that the GM-Nissan Doberman should have Walker Mode, a Weapon Mount (External, Fixed, Remote Control), as well as Clearsight and Targetting Autosofts at Rating 3 each.
-milk.
The errata for Arsenal changed the weapon mounts on both the Doberman and the Lynx in that table to Turrets rather than Fixed. The speed and handling changes from it having walker mode are already figured into its stats (why this doesn't result in better handling than it does isn't stated anywhere). Kerrang is correct, however, that the Device rating covers Firewall, Response, Signal, and System, not Pilot (It may, however, limit the rating of the pilot as it would with any other program being run there).
QUOTE (milk ducks @ Sep 14 2009, 11:33 AM)
Corebook states that "Pilot is used in place of System for vehicles, drones, and agents". It also states that it provides "the same function as System". I would assume that means it has a Pilot rating equal to the System rating it would normally have if it weren't a vehicle, since the two attributes are essentially interchangeable.
Just to clarify this bit, it is saying that for Drones and the like, the Pilot rating replaces the System (Device) rating, and provides the same function. It definitely does not state that the Pilot is at the same rating as the System would have been, and this is obviated by the fact that all Drones have a separate Pilot rating which may or may not be equal to the Device rating.
QUOTE (milk ducks @ Sep 14 2009, 11:33 AM)
Also, Arsenal pg.106 provides a table labeled "Core Rulebook Vehicles - Standard Upgrades", where it lists the vehicles from the Core book and shows what Arsenal-listed upgrades they're assumed to have. It says that the GM-Nissan Doberman should have Walker Mode, a Weapon Mount (External, Fixed, Remote Control), as well as Clearsight and Targetting Autosofts at Rating 3 each.
As noted, since they are assumed to have these upgrades (i.e. they come with them), walker mode is already calculated into the Handling of the Drone. This essentially just keeps you from buying Walker Mode for a Doberman, and improving it's handling in that manner.
QUOTE (DuctShuiTengu @ Sep 14 2009, 01:45 PM)
The errata for Arsenal changed the weapon mounts on both the Doberman and the Lynx in that table to Turrets rather than Fixed.
Oh ok, I see that now. How does that impact the Doberman's standard availability rating, or does it? Turret Flexibility is listed as having a Forbidden availability, but it comes standard on a Drone that's not even classed as Restricted?
-milk.
QUOTE (Kerrang @ Sep 14 2009, 01:36 PM)
Just to clarify this bit, it is saying that for Drones and the like, the Pilot rating replaces the System (Device) rating, and provides the same function. It definitely does not state that the Pilot is at the same rating as the System would have been, and this is obviated by the fact that all Drones have a separate Pilot rating which may or may not be equal to the Device rating.
Just regarding the pilot issue. (I believe the walker is factored into the stats too).
It is interesting that the drone rigger template on p.101 of SR4A also has Pilot in place of a System rating, and has the pilot at the device rating of 4. This, combined with the p.245 comments on pilots implies that drones do not have a system rating.
Especially considering the template has a pilot of 4 and the pilot upgrade rules are not in the base book.
(Correction - you can imply pilot upgrades being in the book as they are bundeled in with agents on p.232)
Yes - I know Arsenal contradicts this - but the anniversary edition is newer...
(Ow - and for the record - I am one of those GMs who are nasty and say that pilot programs must be loaded. It causes me less headaches)
More pilot confusion for me, just when I thought I had it down pat.
QUOTE (milk ducks @ Sep 14 2009, 02:08 PM)
Oh ok, I see that now. How does that impact the Doberman's standard availability rating, or does it? Turret Flexibility is listed as having a Forbidden availability, but it comes standard on a Drone that's not even classed as Restricted?
-milk.
-milk.
I found this odd at first as well, because turrets themselves are forbidden. Here is my idea as to why the doberman can have a turret and not be forbidden as well. The idea of the turret being forbidden is that there is no real condition under which a -vehicle- should have a turret slapped onto it which would be considered legal.
A doberman on the other hand is considered a self defense kind of drone, and so having the doberman itself isn't illegal. Now, when you put a weapon on it, the weapon itself would be restricted or forbidden, so the drone itself is okay, and getting a gun for it is okay in the same regards that getting a gun for yourself is okay for self defense.
That is how I look at what is going on at any rate.
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