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So, last night one of my human NPCs tried to outrun a Troll PC.

Up to this point I never really gave much thought to movement rates. But a Troll can move 35meters and a human can only move 25.

This seems so messed up to me.

The human had a slight head start and the troll had to run around a car he was hiding behind and he still caught up to the human with no problem whatsoever.

Anyone House Rule this? The player proposed cutting the Troll's movement rate in exchange for giving him 5 BP back...
This is all about height man.

Say average human is 6'0" (or about 1.82 meters) for the purpose of this argument

Say the average troll is 9'0" (or about 2.8 meters) for the purposes of this argument

With a full meter difference in height, the Troll is going to have a much longer stride, thus be able to cover more ground. Even if they are walking or running the same speed the Troll will always out distance the human, so long as neither one of them is using any type of movement enhancements.

Generally, the taller you are, the more ground you cover in a single stride. Unless you're weak or unhealthy for your size, the number of steps you take in a given period isn't going to change much based on your size, so the bigger you are, the faster you walk or run. It seems perfectly logical to me for a troll (who's 1.5 times the height of a human) to cover ground much faster.
Just a little math to back up the theory

QUOTE (Bladerunner @ Sep 16 2009, 10:34 AM) *
Just a little math to back up the theory

If I understand everything correctly, that means that the average human will take 14.5 steps when walking in order to move 10m. Assuming that movement rate is a function of how many steps you take, then a troll would cover 1406cm, or 14m. 14m is a pretty ugly number to work with, so 15m walk is pretty much on par.
I seem to remember a friend of mine that used to GM for us regularily handled a situation similar to this. I think he would have allowed the person fleeing to make the route more difficult. Essentially, (and this would have been under 2nd or 3rd rules) the person fleeing would try to pull off a stunt and give a target number for the stunt he was pulling off. If he succeeded, the follower would have to complete a similar stunt to continue the chase, other wise they were stuck, or fell behind a little etc... Once the actions were completed, we'ld fill in the fluff a little more after.

So in a similar case, the fleeing human sees the troll chasing him, and decides to go down an alley with a number of obstructions. He chooses a path that includes some fences, dumpsters, and the uneven building walls that require some coordination. He sets his target number (I think threshhold would work fine) and rolls his athletics (or whatever happens to be applicable) and succeeds. He bounces over the dumpsters and scrambles up the fence and continues running. If the troll doesn't think he can make it, he'll have to choose a less hazardous route down a parallel alley and maybe lose some time/distance.

If the person fleeing does not make it, then the troll catches up or gains on him/her and the character is in big trouble.
I really don't see why this is a problem - the troll is faster, sure, but he's big and unwieldy - the human could go through small alleyways or through squeezes, and the troll would be sort of screwed - he would have to go around, and in absence of that, he'd have to find a way to blow through, which he'd have to take time doing, at which point the other guy could pretty much vanish.
Our group had a discussion about this as well. None of us liked the flat movement rate for all members of a particular race. We much preferred some sort of speed based on stats.


* Average Human run speed 100m is 7.33m/s = 22m/turn.
* World Record run speed 100m is 10.44m/s = 31m/turn.

SR4's 25m/turn falls in this range. We think Run Speed should be a combo of AGI,REA,and STR, since each of these stats would have some factor in how fast a person can run. As luck would have it, average adding these together 3+3+3=9 and Olympic level is 6+6+6=18 with a difference of 9. Giving a starting m/turn of 13 and adding those 3 stats gives exactly the correct spread of run speed for Humans.

Race Base Speed
Dwarf 8
Human 13
Troll 23

Proposed Rule: Run Speed = RacialBase + AGI + REA + STR m/turn

This takes into account stride as well as the character's ability to maneuver (AGI), their raw speed (REA), and their ability to move their mass(STR). Really, AGI and/or REA should probably hold more weight in the formula (although if you've ever seen a sprinter's legs, you know STR in important). Technically, I guess we should subtract off BOD or something to accommodate for extra mass, so really maybe STR - BOD gives you a net increase to your speed.

It can get complex really quickly. smile.gif

I like the 3 stat numbers added together because it coincidentally lines up with reality.

The problem in my mind with "Troll Speed", is that in legend, the Trolls have long legs, but you think of them as large an lumbering. Not really fast, per se.

Anyway, I have random thoughts, and you guys are forced to listen to them. So there.
So Yao Ming would be faster than an "average sized" human simply because he's taller?
This is why you should kneecap the troll before running.
QUOTE (Legs @ Sep 16 2009, 07:02 PM) *
So Yao Ming would be faster than an "average sized" human simply because he's taller?


At 2.29 Meters high, the distance his legs can travel given his height is further than the average human (technically 1.72 meters), thus Yao Ming can move a larger amount of distance given the length of his legs.

Fact: Usain Bolt ran the 100m in 9.58 far faster than 10.44

Either way, my thoughts on it (and I haven't GM'd SR4 yet, but I spent years playing SR in general) would be this: In a flat out foot race, with no obstructions, a Troll and Ork beat a Human every time. Given their size (even if your compensating for their increased weight) they just plain stride longer.

With crafty obstructions though I would be more than happy to place either a dice penalty or threshold penalty on the Troll or Ork in pursuit. It would also depend on how intelligent the player was, set out guidelines and feel free to bend them to the situation as needed.

Or just knee cap them and keep running.

Orcus Blackweather
I think that there are fundamental flaws in the running/athletics system. Strength is the primary characteristic for athletics. I have trouble seeing gymnastics used for a flat out run. By this, the olympic weight lifter should be the best sprinters in the world. Regardless, the human is capped at 7 strength (or agility), while a troll caps at 11. Without augmentation or adept powers, trolls are going to significantly outpace everyone, including elves that have always been described as fleet footed.
Key concept: abstraction.
Keeping with the Weight Lifter.
If they lifted all that weight with their legs, and more often, then imagine how easy it would be to lift the rest of their own body.
Should result in a Ministry Of Silly Walks, what with them practically doing meter long jumps every time they run, but they SHOULD be fast.
Rediculously fast even *snickers*
Basically, what we know today as tripple jump olympic discipline? It would be their usual modus operandi for running more or less.
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