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mog999
How does everyone handle it when a character (or team) gets arrested? I know the old Lone Star book had a section on penal codes and arrest procedures- but what does it mean game wise? We're not about to roleplay a trial or anything- so what happens? Do we just agree that he has the possibility of coming back later with a criminal record SIN: time to make a new character? I've had to pull out some pretty unorthodox and Deus ex machina tricks to avoid this problem in past games and I want to know how everyone else does it.

Also what happens if the fuzz manages to find out that you don't have a SIN at all? Maybe you weren't doing anything illegal but you don't have one and maybe never did? Do they try to take you in for registration or something?
Synner667
you get arrested
yo get booked and you goto court
you goto prison

however...
...with the last 2, you have the opp for someone to step in and have them do a suicide mission, a great opp to change the campaign, etc

if you're booked and have a SIN, your SIN gets amended
if you're booked and don't have a SIN, the system gives you one and about 1hr later that SIN is spread to other places and is no longer erasable


thats's my take in simple terms - i actually have a bit more detail in games I run
CanRay
Bubba the Love Troll happens. That's what happens.
mog999
My players will too often fight to the death rather than be arrested. I don't foster that kind of attitude in them as I dont think that's what their characters would really do in the situation most times- but thats what they do because they think its the end for their character if they dont. I've even offered building point incentives on their next characters for a noble end to this one- just to combat that behavior. (not that I'm trying to kill characters or anything- and we dont actually run into the cops all that much [unless they do something stupid in public for example]).

Other than that I've had someone in the law enforcement system be corrupt and make them do something (an assassination or the like) in exchange for their release.

Hypothetical: A law enforcement sees somebody buying a candy bar in a Stuffer Shack in touristville outside the Redmond Barrens and realized that he doesn't have a SIN. Does he take him in? Or does he look the other way? What does policy require him to do?

I'd like to hear more about your details Synner: if you don't mind/ have the time.
mog999
QUOTE (CanRay @ Sep 18 2009, 01:05 PM) *
Bubba the Love Troll happens. That's what happens.



Haha!
Synner667
QUOTE (mog999 @ Sep 18 2009, 02:05 PM) *
Hypothetical: A law enforcement sees somebody buying a candy bar in a Stuffer Shack in touristville outside the Redmond Barrens and realized that he doesn't have a SIN. Does he take him in? Or does he look the other way? What does policy require him to do?

I'd like to hear more about your details Synner: if you don't mind/ have the time.


officially = ignore them unless they commit a crime - and even then stop them and tell them to f*** off, because of the paperwork involved [all my police have streetcams, so it's a bit more problematical]
of course, you have to explain how he knows the person doesn't have a SIN - imagine the fun you could have with unsuspecting policemen hassling laying low spec ops chaps wink.gif

unofficially = ignore them unless they commit a crime, or you're bored

Mog999 - i'm just off on holiday for a week, but maybe when i get back

PirateChef
QUOTE (Synner667 @ Sep 18 2009, 07:45 AM) *
you get arrested
yo get booked and you goto court
you goto prison

however...
...with the last 2, you have the opp for someone to step in and have them do a suicide mission, a great opp to change the campaign, etc

if you're booked and have a SIN, your SIN gets amended
if you're arrested and don't have a SIN, you get two in the back of the head and dumped in the barrens or sold to the officers organlegging cousin

Edited for Accuracy

ShadowPavement
Yeah, even Lone Star needs to use some deniable assets every now and then. So they give the characters some criminal SINs and give them a hard job they can't do officially in exchange for not going to Jail. When the job is done LS can still call on the PC's for work and the PC's now have to figure out how to ditch the criminal SINs.

All in all a good little adventure in and of itself.
Traul
QUOTE (mog999 @ Sep 18 2009, 03:05 PM) *
Hypothetical: A law enforcement sees somebody buying a candy bar in a Stuffer Shack in touristville outside the Redmond Barrens and realized that he doesn't have a SIN. Does he take him in? Or does he look the other way? What does policy require him to do?


IIRC, SIN broadcasting is only mandatory in high secure areas such as airports. Anywhere else, not having a SIN or not being willing to show it should not get you any problem. Being SINless is not an offense by itself, otherwise the UCAS would be compelled to offer a SIN to whoever asks for it. Even in high secure areas, all you would get is probably being kicked out, maybe interrogated if they suspect you entered to commit an offense.
mog999
p38 of the old BBB:
"Technically, everybody is supposed to have a SIN (it€™s
illegal not to), but in reality, many people don€™t. Some had
them erased; some lost them when the Matrix went down in
€™64 and getting a new one was too much of a hassle; some never
had one at all because their births were never recorded. Th e
SINless, as they€™re called, tend to operate outside the system
and have a hard time doing anything legitimately, since not
having a SIN marks you as either an alien or a person subject
to lesser rights."


I remember reading that they allowed anyone to come get one after the crash 2.0 which gave the benefit of the doubt to anyone who didn't have one. Sort of an amnesty for the SINless.
JoelHalpern
I actually liked what our GM did when about half the team got brought in for questioning.
(The situation was such that the cops had choices. They could land on us like a ton of bricks, or, since we had just helped them out, they could treat us friendly.) We called our fixer. He offered us two lawyer. One inexpensive, and one quite steep. Each would have worked to keep the game moving and itneresting, with different implications. We took the expensive one. He came in, talked pretty, probably spread some of the money around, and we walked with nothing recorded permanently.

Yours,
Joel
Megu
QUOTE (mog999 @ Sep 18 2009, 09:18 AM) *
p38 of the old BBB:
"Technically, everybody is supposed to have a SIN (it�€™s
illegal not to), but in reality, many people don�€™t. Some had
them erased; some lost them when the Matrix went down in
�€™64 and getting a new one was too much of a hassle; some never
had one at all because their births were never recorded. Th e
SINless, as they�€™re called, tend to operate outside the system
and have a hard time doing anything legitimately, since not
having a SIN marks you as either an alien or a person subject
to lesser rights."


I remember reading that they allowed anyone to come get one after the crash 2.0 which gave the benefit of the doubt to anyone who didn't have one. Sort of an amnesty for the SINless.



I think it said some countries did that, but it wasn't specific on who. I'm guessing the UCAS was one of them, but if you're not playing in the UCAS, probably up to your GM.
Khyron
It depends really. If you don't have a SIN and you're in New York, the cops show up 4 minutes later to hand out a beating. On the other hand, NYPD inc would seem to be the easiest to get out from since they love their bribes as long as you're not an anarchist or don't mind taking missions to mess with local knight errant.

Elsewhere, when you get arrested, start throwing bribes. If you have no money or you get the one honest cop on the force, hope you enjoy prison Troll lovin.
ScandRun
Instead of arresting the team, just bring in a SR version of Vic Mackey and his strike team from TV-series The Shield, should give the team a whole new angle on interaction with law enforcement. Damn the SR version of Vic Mackey must be bad ass rotfl.gif
Thadeus Bearpaw
QUOTE (mog999 @ Sep 18 2009, 06:38 AM) *
How does everyone handle it when a character (or team) gets arrested? I know the old Lone Star book had a section on penal codes and arrest procedures- but what does it mean game wise? We're not about to roleplay a trial or anything- so what happens? Do we just agree that he has the possibility of coming back later with a criminal record SIN: time to make a new character? I've had to pull out some pretty unorthodox and Deus ex machina tricks to avoid this problem in past games and I want to know how everyone else does it.

Also what happens if the fuzz manages to find out that you don't have a SIN at all? Maybe you weren't doing anything illegal but you don't have one and maybe never did? Do they try to take you in for registration or something?



Honestly, Given the logistical hassle of it. I give the group an opportunity to bust them out, but if they get arraigned and put in a proper jail. They're functionally dead. Yeah that character might come again at some point, but I assume a half to a third of the time of our (American) courts to Shadowrun courts and subsequently assume they're going to be out for a while. Plus no one in my group is going to go running against the Start or whomever to bust them out.
nezumi
There have been a few posts done on this, so I recommend searching. However, in brief...


If you have a SIN and no money...
Arrests happen more or less like they do now. The guy goes to jail, can post bond, gets a lawyer, gets a trial, and goes to prison (or not). His SIN is modified. Prison may be braindance, or it may not be, depending on the locale.

If you have a SIN and money...
a) You pay the cop a large sum of money and he 'botches' the arrest, or decides not to pursue it at all...
or
b) You go to jail, post bond, get an excellent lawyer, and go to prison, with nothing on your permanent record.

If you have NO SIN and money...
a) You pay the cop a large sum of money and he forgets about you
b) The cop kills you and takes your money
c) The cop takes your money and books you anyway. You're given a criminal SIN, put in jail, probably NOT allowed to post bond, but probably allowed access to a lawyer, get a trial, and likely get off, holding a good deal less money

If you have NO SIN and NO money...
a) The cop beats you up
b) The cop arrests you, you go to jail, get a quick but crooked trial, and enjoy braindance for a few years, until the system can't get any more cash out of you
c) All of the above
d) The cop kills you and takes your stuff


IF you go to prison, the less money you have and the less recognized you are as a citizen (i.e. having a SIN, being human, etc.), the tougher prison will be. For luxury class, it may be simply deactivating cyberware or just a nice, comfortable braindance for a few years, so the Star can get its profit holding a criminal. If you don't have these things, your cyberware may be forcibly removed and resold, or just permanently ruined. Your magic likely loses a few points, and you can expect a mage collar or mage hood for most of your stay. You may 'enjoy' the cheap braindance they do, or just be tossed in a room with a bunch of other thugs and left to your own devices. They will keep you as long as physically possible. They don't want you to die, however, until the last few years of your sentence, so they can sell your organs and cyber for more profit.


If your party is rolling in cash, subtract some painful amount and the character is sprung free by his new lawyer buddy (I'd say on the order of $100,000 if caught red-handed during a 'standard' run. $200,000 if it's with lots of witnesses and news coverage. $50,000 or less for minor violations.) If the party is not rolling in cash, the character is basically dead until a certain amount of time passes. With braindance, his objective sentence may be shorter than his subjective sentence. To him it was 20 years virtual time, but in your time, it was 6 months. Be sure to play up the psychological ramifications of spending 20 years in the slammer, but only being 21 years old. It's not completely canon, but none of it is specifically contrary to canon.
Twilights_Herald
QUOTE (nezumi @ Sep 19 2009, 03:22 PM) *
It's not completely canon, but none of it is specifically contrary to canon.

Just got to say one thing here. Canon actually does have a few specific things to say about simsense-based incarceration, none of them any good. At least as far back as the mid-60s, they were still playing around with this tech. Most of the people who went through it were never quite the same afterwards. Usually you'd be hit with so many psychotropics that a future career as a runner is out of the question (Judas, aversions, anything you can think of.) I think the one specific case they got into, a mage was hooked up to one of these rigs. Took them six months to 'spring' him (which implies the prison corp was planning to hold him for longer, possibly much longer) and when they did, he was described as 'just sitting in the corner, smiling all the time.' And he wasn't capable of the focus to do magic, although they didn't say he was actually burned out.

So your best bet is probably to take your chances with the general population. They've probably gotten better about turning people into vegetables, but you don't really want to end up calling every crime you do in to the proper authorities, dropping any gun you touch like it burns you, and so on anyway.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
In our current game, several of the characters have received Criminal Sins (Caught and release), while My character is cooling his heals in a Mitsuhama Prison Facility somewhere (Corporate Espionage being what it is)...

Made new character while I await my chance a freedom...
PBI
I don't have access to my books at work, but I do remember in SR2 (and maybe 3rd) that being SINless in the UCAS was a crime. It's just that there are so many, the cops don't do anything about it unless you get arrested/stopped and checked for something else, at which point you get fined and given a criminal SIN.
The Jake
My PCs would stage a jail break and pull out all the stops, wait for a prisoner transfer or something similar. Complete with getaway chopper, automatic gunfire, explosions, etc.

It'd be glorious.

- J.
nezumi
Being SINless is a crime, in the same way that being an illegal immigrant is a crime. The problem is, if some guy sneaks from Italy to Texas and is caught, we ship him back to Italy (I know, all those low-wage Italians stealing American jobs). In Shadowrun, the SINless aren't 'from' anywhere, so there's no where to ship them to, and I doubt Lone Star gets paid a wage for holding people on accounts of being SINless.

However, SINless are also officially invisible to the system. That means Lone Star can do what they please to the SINless (as long as it's not really institutionalized) and no one cares. If you're a pretty girl with no SIN wandering downtown, I'd worry that, should some LS officer come rolling down and card you, the handcuffs won't be used for an arrest, if you catch my drift.
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