I haven't played Shadowrun in years -- mostly due to lack of a steady group of players -- but the 20th Anniv. 4th Edition book really gave me the itch to start up again, and I'm working on cobbling together a group of players.

Here are the hurdles I have to overcome, and I'm not sure exactly how to get around them, since I've been off the horse for so long:

1. None of my players have played SR before. I've got a solid handle on GMing (which was my primary job back in the day), so I've got that covered, but it's been about 12 years or more since I had my last group of newbies. Back then, I was a newbie too, so I was learning along with everyone else.

2. My significant other has never played ANY pen-and-paper RPG before, so she's rather hesitant to play ("I don't think I'm that creative," she says). She's interested in being a technomancer, so I'd really like to convince her she doesn't have to be an Oscar-winning actress to enjoy the game.

3. One guy (the husband of a prospective player) supposedly hates SR (although I'm not sure why). I figure either he's played and doesn't like the game, or he knows about it only by reputation and wrote it off (one of those narrow-minded, Gibsonian, purist "I don't want any elves in my cyberpunk, thank you" sort of people). Any ideas on how I might be able to convince him to join us? A husband/wife player combo would be a welcome addition to the group.

4. Short of handing my players SR novels as homework assignments, how do I handle the disparate gap between 12+ years of GM knowledge vs. a lack of player knowledge? For example: Say the team finds out they're not running for Ares, like they thought, but through clever misdirection, are working for the Big A instead. Players who know anything about Aztechnology (and thus hate them to the core) would immediately start looking over their shoulder for a blood mage bent on revenge for them slotting up their recent job. If I used this kind of plot point with a new group, the players would all shrug and go, "So? What's the big fragging deal?" And then they would all get cacked by blood magic. I've found SR to be enjoyable with players that have an appreciation for the source material, but I unfortunately do not have that luxury this time around.

5. Since I'll be playing with a new group and new rules (2nd Edition was my bread and butter, but 4th Ed. rules are really growing on me), is there any advice on making the game less lethal yet still challenging? As a GM, I would much rather see my characters succeed than watch them all get shot up by an offended go-gang the minute they leave the meet. This is especially frustrating with new players when the character they spent hours building gets geeked right off the bat due to some bad dice rolls or because they were unlucky enough to stand too close to a grenade when it went off. Granted, 2nd Edition rules could be pretty deadly too, but characters had Karma pool and other various dice pools to help balance out their chances of success. 4th Edition seems to replace the Karma/dice pools with Edge, but this only helps to a certain degree, as enemy NPCs have an Edge attribute as well (whereas in 2nd Ed. they only had their Threat Rating dice). But on the other hand, I don't want the adventure to be as easy as a run to the Stuffer Shack.

Any other advice would be helpful! Domo arigato, chummers.

By the rules you can't get killed in SR as long as you have any edge characteristic left. I'd suggest not relying on this, but it's a point to be kept in mind.

A useful approach to making SR not crazy deadly is to keep in mind that most all the NPCs are really not willing to die simply to make the PCs life difficult. If the PCs are working to start fights with large bands of armed crazies then things are likely to not work out well for them, but lots of potentially violent situations can be resolved by listening to the guy with 40 armed crazies who says "If you don't leave right now my boys will kill you" and LEAVING. No counter threats, no parting words, just exit stage left.

The PCs can sell themselves dearly, but if there are 40 of them with guns and 5 of you it just isn't going to end well, no matter how many dice in pistols you have. And how exactly does getting shot to pieces get you paid?


Oh, and only major NPCs have edge, otherwise it's group pool thing. And you don't have to use it.

Well...What is your intro Scrawl? What city you starting them in?

What I would do is...start them in the Barrens. As they do things, reveal the
secrets of the world to them. You have a bunch of new players, so this is
a great time for them to have the joy of discovery. Have their first encounter
with Aztechnology in the shadows(after all...they have really GOOD PR...hardly
anyone outside the shadows knows about their blood magic) be something that
leaves them having nightmares...Aztechnology and MCT to me, have been the
scary corps...Aztechnology for their blood magic, MCT for their Cyberzombies.
But, Horizon is fast becoming a scary subtle corp from things we are finding out
now.

In fact, let their first encounter with Blood Magic be outside of dealing with Aztechnology.
Let it be some crazy cultist they are hired by some local fixer to stop....only to have it
turn out the person behind the Fixer is working for Tanamous(blood mages are bad for
the organ-legging and ghoul chow business...since they are kind of competition for
the "people no-one will miss" demographic..)

Hey, nothing says you can't organleg the good parts of your blood magic sacrifices and give ghouls the rest. It's not like you poison the meat. You're just getting maximum value from your victims.

Well, I'm starting them in Seattle, which is my favorite sprawl.

I plan on starting them with small gigs just to get a feel for the rules, the world, and for working with each other as a team. Beyond that, my intent with the game is that the PCs aren't green, yet they're not being offered top-nuyen jobs because they haven't thus far made names for themselves in the shadows. In other words, they're not gangers with some gun skills, just some up-and-comers just ready to hit some major paydirt.

I don't plan on them starting in the gutter. Maybe on the sidewalk.

I would just like to say, I've had this web handle for about 12 years, and this is the first place people wouldn't wonder what it means.

People who don't know me or haven't met me in person always assume my name is "Joe."

1.) I know just how you feel, except about knowing second edition. My first SR book had "Fourth Edition" written on it and is already falling to pieces from too much love. Remember that if you're wrong, nobody will call you on it, so focus more on wild technique and having fun rather than rolling with the rules.

2.) Intro session. Take her aside for five minutes and play something like hacking into a system. Use lots of description and have stuff ready to tell her on the couple steps of the way. Once she gets a feel for the game, she'll be less scared. And don't give out Karma for the intro session unless you run one for everyone.

3.) You have to find out why he doesn't like it. Whatever he doesn't like, you may want to consider just erasing it from your game if everyone else is ok with that. Ask them, though, because it might make a difference in what they want to play. Don't try to sculpt a game to fit one person unless everyone else is ok with that sculpting, or else you're only playing favorites.

4.) Ideally, someone should have a contact that's an expert runner who can help out the group. Failing that, have an NPC who aids everyone. If you have the 20A Core book, read the Fresh Meat story, starting on page 76, and it should give you some strong inspiration for a group of newbies. Failing even that, feed the technomancer idle stories about how "Yet again" some megacorp has done something or other, ideally on a secure network that the megacorps don't control the way they control the media.

You can also overuse knowledge skills. Make them roll whatever to find out what they know and how much they know, and inform them as soon as they hear about stuff.

Coming back to think on this, I'm going to suggest that with a large group of new people, they have some mysterious benefactor who appears out of nowhere, sends them messages and gives them hints. They may even come to rely on this mysterious force. It can be their friend. As soon as they're willing to do something to pay it back for all its assistance, spring the trap. Let them find out first hand why you can't trust anyone in the shadows, don't just try to tell them.

5.) Burning Edge has already been mentioned. I suggest starting things out relatively tame, figuring out how much the PCs can handle, and adjusting more and more to match what they can take. As they learn, they'll be able to take more as well, but as long as you don't expect too much of them, things should be ok.

The idea occurs to me that the meat market could be in strong demand for fresh limbs and organs, so NPCs keep trying to incapacitate and kidnap PCs rather than kill them outright, but this also can be problematic when that player has to sit there bored while they go rescue him.

A technique that's good for use maybe once is to use Docwagon as a divine intervention. Somebody dropped but they had the contract and were fortunate enough that a wagon was nearby and could rush in with guns blazing to save the party. If you honestly feel you overdid the encounter, I'd go for that, but things will feel too easy if you use it every time. Even if you use this, or some other form of DXM, make sure the character has some scar or roleplaying debilitation to make sure they know they didn't just get off scot free.


In closing, you can use various NPCs to give them hints for how they should behave in the shadows, but don't force them to behave that way. Let them find out how firsthand. Rather than trying to fast forward them to your level of expertise, let them take a joyride through everything you already know, because the best knowledge is the kind you have to earn. Also remember, though, that the best victory is when you actually win, so don't make it seem Completely hopeless.

Going to stop now as I feel like I'm rambling but I probably got some good suggestions in there.

*looks up at AndyZ's post*

*hmms* Stiching bombs into babies? Going to have to remember that for my horror games...

(kinda wondering why this got removed the last time, too...)

Wrong thread, Cardul. That was in the Slaughter ahappening one.

I'm glad someone at least appreciated that post, though. I was worried I'd crossed the line.

It sounds more like a confidence issue than anything. Just be reassuring that she doesn't need to be creative. Actually, that may also be onset due to all the stories and in character comments that are littered through the books. That may offset players who think that the game is going to require that level of creativity and detail.



Without knowing the why I couldn't even begin to give you ideas on how to get him to join. Personally, I love SR4s rules and I wouldn't mind it one bit if the magicky stuff was removed from the game. Most of my love for the cyberpunk genre stems from Section 9 in GitS. My current character is heavily influenced by Saito.



Make it clear to them the consequences of the action, that's about all you can do unless you avoid it completely.



If you want to make it less lethal focus in on the B&E aspect and defocus on combat. Combat will inherently be lethal to the PCs unless you buff the PCs in combat or nerf the NPCs in combat.

Play a very simple introductory solo run, only for her (escape from a lousy protected corporate convoy, for example). Help her, give some clues about use of her abilities. And hey, technos are often scared and disoriented, so she have not to role play much. Her PC could be a silent, shy person.

That reminds me about timeline in SR. Runs at the beginning could take place in 2070 - no official data about technos or AIs (= less informations for players to memorize at the beginning). Then play "Emergence".

And I suggest You to get familiar with "Matrix Topology" section in "Unwired" (if You didn't yet). It's much easier to do anything with Wireless Matrix knowing these informations.

Oops...Yeah...so that's what happens when you have a guest call on the phone, and another guest
come to front deck while you are trying to help athe guest on the phone with directions...while
a short on the smoke detector on the roof is annoying to crap out of you(no fire alarms going
off...but that persistent beeping is annoying!)

(Yes..I work at a hotel..Night Audit...)

5. Run them through On the Run. When something silly happens, give them a look at the "gm hints". SEriously. It's babysitting, but it'll get them in the right mindset and they'll think that way in other runs. unless one decides to use shape earth to burrow underground and burst out from an old grave singing showtunes.

Hagga: Am I to guess that that actually happened at your table?

The solo run sounds like a good idea. I'll have to give that a whirl.

I have Unwired on order. Hopefully I should get it within the week.

To resolve the GM vs. player knowledge discrepancy, I would remember that the characters know a lot of things that the players don't, and add a lot of extra details to my descriptions. Like for your Aztechnology example, you could tell them that Aztechnology has a really bad reputation for screwing over runners. And do it for everyday stuff, too. Let them soak up the atmosphere and the mood, and learn how things work.

If they are walking through the Barrens, don't simply describe the wretched joygirls wearing transparent raincoats and little else. Describe a scene of one of them walking into an alley with a suit, then tell them that their characters know that suit isn't likely to come back out again. Or describe two gangers rolling on the sidewalk, having a vicious knife fight, and other pedestrians apathetically walking around them.

That's a good point.

The other aspect of character knowledge vs. player knowledge would be the players knowing exactly what their characters can do, i.e. what options are actually available to them for their skill set or archetype.

For example, I had been GMing a game for a while, but it wasn't until I read a SR novel that explicitly talked about ritual sorcery, material links, and their uses that I actually understood the point of ritual spells. Before then, I never even thought about it or even really knew how they worked, and *I* was the *GM*. In other words, back then if I had been playing a mage rather than GMing, it would never occurred to me that, "Hey, maybe one of my spirits can astrally track this guy, and then, whammo! No more bad guy!" With my actual CHARACTER, however, that's probably the first thing that would occur to him, assuming there was enough time and available mojo to pull off a ritual. How do you get players introduced to this without saying (as GM), "Hmm... He left some blood behind at the scene when he limped away. Why not gather that up and use it as a material link for a ritual spell?"

I mean, I could spoonfeed stuff like that to the group, but wouldn't that feel more like I'm pushing the game where *I* want to go rather than letting them hash it out the way they want to, even if they're not aware of the options? Letting them hash it out is kinda like someone driving 8 hours down the highway without them even being aware the car has cruise control and not telling them about it.

In this kind of a situation, would it be fair to have the character, say, perform a Magic/Magical-Theory/Sorcery kind of success test, and suggest various magical actions based on the results?

One of the things I've seen suggested is that you print out the short stories at the beginnings of chapters and things for folks to read or, if you want to introduce them to a concept you could always use it against them, or have older more experianced runners talk about this one time that such n such happened.. theres always fun to be had in the gossup of runners bragging and doing the 'there I was, I was naked and all I had was a spoon and there were ten've them..' routine.

There is a good run called "Out for Blood" at Steve Kenson's site (http://www.stevekenson.com/) in the Articles section. I find it's statted for SR3 but it's an easy update for SR4 and I've found that it works great as an intro run.

Well that's basically it, but you need to frame it in terms of how the character perceives things, rather than an OOC suggestion telling the player what to do. For example, you might rephrase that as "You think there's probably enough blood left there to use as a material link for a ritual." In this way it comes across more as the character being observant and competent (which is a positive thing for the player) rather than the GM suggesting something to a slow player. I know the distinction might seem a little thin on the face of it, but it works (from my own perspective as a player, at least ) You could also have them make a suitable skill roll to get that kind of info. Alternatively you could have a handy NPC on the scene point it out ("That idiot's gonna get himself killed, leaving all that blood around for some wizard to fry his ass with a ritual spell").

Over time as the players learn how stuff works, they should pick up on this stuff themselves, and you can ease up on the freebies.

New players? I would highly suggest, being a new player myself, that you don't railroad them at all - it is just not fun. If they do get railroaded, make sure it is by a character they can take revenge on, that should provide some pretty fun drama in character.

Basicly, the game can only be fun for the players if they explore and discover what makes it fun for them, they are finding their play style preference after all, right? Also, I suggest from the sounds of it since this is a adult group that there be some social lubricants, like small amounts of alcohol and plenty of laughter.

Here are my answers to the original first posting here;

#1: Don't expect the new players to memorise EVERY rule. Be patient, be kind, and walk them through something introductory. Using Food Run 4.0 from the Quickstart rules might be a good place to start.
Get some 3x5 cards and on one side write in large green letters "O-O-C" (out of character, meaning the player is speaking) and on the other side write in large red letters "I-C-N" (in character now, meaning the player is speaking for the character). Have them use this during play so all can tell who's speaking and who's not.

#2: Have her sit in on the into game, but mostly as an observer. Also, if you can find another SR group playing, bring her and also sit in for observation.

#3: Find out why he hates playing SR, whether it was a bad GM, justa bad experience, or he never understood the rules (most likely it's the first one). See also #2. If after that night, he still doesn't want to play, that's his call.

#4: Handing them the SR novles list as reading homework may be a bad idea. I remember one prospective player when I GM'ed one night insisted that all Mr. Johnson's were dragons in disguise (read it in one of the novels, I forget which one) and tried to kill him when the adventure was almost complete.
You can still go with it, but also pick a few freelance short-stories for better flavor. Enforce the notion that this part is for "general atmosphere", NOT chisled-in-adamantium-Canon.

#5: Tell them to have fun, but it's still dangerous in the Sixth World. The more efforts they put into;
a) survivng the mission
b) killing as few innocents as possible
c) actually fulfilling the contract
d) spending their Edge and Karma wisely
just might make it easier for them. Emphasize that, even in the grim & grimey Sixth World, keeping your head doesn't just only mean wearing neck armor.

The 3x5 cards is a good idea.



I was actually being sarcastic about handing them books as homework.



That's probably a good point to make. The last group I GMed for (about 10 years ago, I believe), a guy who'd never played SR created a troll character, and he was under the impression that all trolls are brain dead. He of course played his character as a complete and total moron (in character, that is). For example, the team had to go collect their bodyguarding client from Sea-Tac airport, and when this troll wanders through the metal detectors and chem sniffers, they go fragging nuts. The security guards ask him to open his duster, and he's sporting not one, not two, but his entire arsenal of weapons, including a Pather assault cannon. His character acted like this was the norm for walking around outside, and when the sec guards tried to confiscate his weapons, his character blows one of them away. At that point, the entire team either got geeked or ran away, and the entire mission was hosed. I tried to explain to the (now dead) troll's player that he couldn't really do stuff like that, no matter how dumb he thinks his character is. Even if his character had an Intelligence of 2 or less, if he's survived long enough to be a runner with some skills, odds are he's had to use some kind of discretion. And that was the end of that run/group. Granted, there was a big laugh around the room when he opened up his coat, but I haven't GMed a SR game since.

For the record, the rest of the group was carrying either a non-metallic firearm or had well-concealed weapons and managed to get around security without being noticed.

Interesting idea....If they are new players, it makes alot of sense...more sense then the "From the moment you sit down, if you say it, your character says it."
I would, however, still think of putting in IC Only sections(like the negotiations with the Johnson), because OOC stuff can often slow those down.

4:novel in question: Tails you lose by Lisa Smedman

Joe Chummer & Cardul: Thanks. I've had problems during some games trying to figure out when the players are speaking for themselves or their characters. The cards seem like a good idea.

Stingray: Thanks for pointing out that novel. I was sure it was an earlier one, but if that's the one, that's the one.