What would the range be on a Rating 5 Roto Drone?

Like, How far could it get away from the Rigger?

That depends. If you're just sending data to the drone, such as commands, then all that matters is the Signal on the Rigger's commlink. Of course the rigger may not be able to get any data back from the drone. IIRC the pilot rating of drones is effectively the device rating which indicates the signal rating. So for that drone, it has a signal rating of 3. That means the effective 2-way communication range for the drone and rigger is 400m.

Remember the rotodrones have an enhanced sensor array. I believe that takes their signal up to a 4. I'd have to double check that though. They would also act as a relay, so the maximum distance, if I chained the drones, would be 3x their signal distance.

I guess my main question is what sort of coverage a single drone would have. A few blocks?

That sounds like one of the modifications added on to drones/vehicles in Arsenal.

I'm pretty sure the rules say both nodes have to be within range of each other for communication to occur (one- or two-way). The one-way doesn't work because that's really an abstraction - comparing to the real world, you can't send to a specific device unless you can establish a connection, which requires (two-way) negotiation, even if only one of the parties actually has anything to send. You COULD simply broadcast the data blindly from the drone, of course, but then anyone can pick it up, if they're listening....

It's fairly simple, it has a coverage of a spherical shape around itself with a radius equal to the range of its signal rating (Which I thought was equal to device rating, but I don't have my books on me to verify).

A few blocks? I don't know, just convert m to blocks. As a refrence, 400m is a quarter mile (roughly)

Edit: Of course the way the matrix works according to the book, as long as your drone is in range of something, which is in range of something, which is in range of something... ad infinatim... which is in range of your commlink, it will be able to establish a connection.

Okay, first of all, you're utterly wrong. Simple enough an explanation? UDP and TCP protocols.

Second of all, Signal is an indicator of signal strength. It has no bear on types of communication beyond which ones are allowed. All it does is essentially indicates how far the device can broadcast a signal that is usable by any device that can read it. It is assumed that all the antenna for devices are omnidirectional.

Third of all, unless wireless signals are narrow-beam antennas, anyone sticking an antenna in the broadcast area can pick up the traffic. You have a laptop on a wireless network? Your laptop and the wireless access point are both broadcasting your data in every direction. Proof of concept? You can establish a mesh wireless network using multiple laptops without ever needing an access point. The laptops just need to be within the broadcast range of one of the other laptops in the mesh in order to become part of it and extend it.

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It's not a new concept, it's something we can do now. In fact I think that was one of the methods by which the One Laptop Per Child program was going to get Internet access to many parts of Africa where they don't have Internet access.

UDP and TCP rely on external services like routers. If we could use UDP and TCP then why does signal strength matter at all? The whole point of comparing signal strength is to see if point-to-point communication is possible, not whether we can route through the Matrix that knows where the destination is.

Thus RAW states quite plainly that you can use one-way communication if only one device is in range of the other. What you could actually -do- with this is fairly limited, but it is possible.

Put a sat. link in the drone and your good

Only problem then is that you can certainly control the drone from anywhere, but you can also have it hacked from anywhere

TCP and UDP do not require external services like routers. Using an ad-hoc wireless network on laptops you can establish direct wireless links between the laptops which utilize TCP and UDP. TCP and UDP are communications protocols that designatE how communication is going to occur. Routing protocols determine how a packet gets from point A to point B and usually are protocols like RIP or EIGRP.

UDP does not require establishing a connection prior to sending data, TCP does. UDP does not care about if packets arrive, are duplicated, or go missing. TCP does. UDP is a one-way communication protocol that is best used for time-sensitive applications. Even if such protocols no longer exist in their current form, these protocols are so useful that some descendant of them will exist. In Shadowrun terms it means that if you are performing a 1-way communication then you only care about the sender's signal rating. If you're using 2-way communication then you use the lower signal rating between sender and receiver.

true, I suppose, but its really the same chance whenever its in an area with online coverage.

Well, there's actually some great uses for it.

Consider this. Triangulation of a device's physical location requires that the device transmits a signal. If you run your drones in a receive only mode, that means that the enemy cannot physically pinpoint a drone. Now a hacker could probably intercept commands you're sending to the drone, but will really have no idea where your drone is located. Now this is mostly useless for surveillance style drones where you want to have feedback, but this is an awesome tactic for combat drones. Specifically drones that utilize a longarm autosoft and have a sniper weapon mounted on them. Sure it would be nice to get some sort of a feedback to know how many/when the drone takes down a target, but it's not necessary, especially if the drone is firing at something you, one of your drones, or one of the team can directly observe.

If you run your drones off the matrix, this would also make it much harder for a hacker to hijack those drones which aren't transmitting. While the hacker can find out the access ID to spoof commands, he still will need to take a guess at where the drone is based on your signal strength. That means he could be transmitting commands for the sniper bot to eject its clip and not even be broadcasting in its area.

Assuming the Rating 5 Roto Drone has a Signal of 5, two-way communication between it and the rigger would be possible within the radius of the lowest-Signal device, while one-way communication is possible within the radius of the sending device's Signal Range. ["Signal (Hardware)," page 212-213, SR4]

The Range for a Signal 5 device is 4km, per the table on the bottom of page 212, SR4.

From the runner's perspective, a Signal of 7 or 8 [40 or 100km, respectively] would be much more desirable, because then you can be physically quite distant and not make use of the local wireless mesh. [In game terms, this is best reflected with the Nonstandard Wireless Link. [Page 196, Unwired.]

One odd note about Signal Range: the average commlink [Signal 3] has the same Range as the average wi-fi router: 400 meters; what happens when you get toward the edge of the mesh? It's like having a cell phone whose range is only 400 meters. Given that today's wireless data ranges are in the kilometers, why would any device in Shadowrun that's intended to use the matrix [voice calls, data retrieval, practically everything] have such a short range?*

Beyond all of this is the option to use the Satellite Link. [Page 318, SR4.] This has a Signal rating of 8 [Range of 100km], but I'm not sure what's that's supposed to indicate; the satellites it's using are in low Earth orbit, which is 160 - 2,000km, and the range of the ultimate receiver is limited only by its access to the satellite constellation or a wireless mesh. But my concern would be: whose satellite are you using? Also, this is subject to lag, from -2 Response to only getting to take an action once every other Combat Turn. [Page 165, Arsenal.]

As I understand it, even microdrones [Body 0] have 4 modification slots: "Vehicles have a slot maximum value of 4 or their Body Attribute, whichever is higher." [Page 129, Arsenal.] Both Satellite Communication and Retrans Unit take only one slot. [Page 141-142, Arsenal.] But if they're small enough to fit in a microdrone, why wouldn't every commlink have one? Weird. I can't seem to figure out what it takes to raise the Signal on a drone, though, either, so I feel like either I'm missing something important in the vehicle modification rules, or they suck.

*Sometimes I feel like people weren't really thinking some of these things through:

Why wouldn't the sensors and wireless antennae just be connected to the inside of the faraday cage with optical cable? As long as no opening in the faraday cage is larger than the wavelength of the signal it is intended to block [and unless it's terahertz radio, 1mm is thus sufficient], it remains fully functional. It just doesn't make sense as written.

I was missing something. Satellite Communications is only available for Standard vehicles.

edit: Actually, that means it's available for Small Drones (Body 2), which can be "the size of a commlink." [Page 102, Arsenal.] So your commlink should easily accomodate a Satellite Link.

Rigger <-rigger signal-> Matrix <-drone signal-> Drone

How big is the Matrix?

Given that everyone seems to be afraid to get on it due to hacker attacks... kinda small

ok, maybe i should have put this in a new thread, but if you control your drones over the matrix, can you still encrypt the signal? i imagine you can....

Sure, why not? The game makes no distinction between having a direct connection between any two devices and having to bounce it through a million nodes.

Correct, as long as you can satisfy 2-way communication through the Mesh Network, you can command the drone and receive its signals... it only becomes a challenge when you operate in an environment that is not covered by a mesh network... Like say the Gobi Desert...

At which point, if you are outfitted with a Satellite Link on your Comlink end and a Satelite Link on the Drone end, you will be fine... easiest fix for establishing communications range between the rigger and the Drone, once the drone exceeds the standard Signal range of the comlink (easily expandable by a directional antenna) you can automaticaly switch to the Satellite Link to contine signal integrity...

You are mixing different network-layers...
For WLAN to function properly, you need a two-way connection.
1. ARP. You can argue, that for subscribed connections, you don't need arp, but for subscribed connection, you need a bidirectional connection...
2. CSMA/CD or CSMA/CA.

Would it be possible to have the drone RECEIVE data and instructions via direct link and SEND data and sensory information back via the matrix? That way you could control a signal 2 microdrone while sitting 40km away in a bus with a giant radio dish on the roof. Would there be any advantages to doing this?

Yes, but even that can be intercepted.

The difference is, that you need to intercept the signal locally (i.e. scanner is within sensor range), as opposed to Matrix communication, where you could be anywhere and just connect to some node during which the signal is routed.

Also signal range is quite relevant, when in an area with no Matrix coverage.


Baseline: Both is possible, you can use p2p wireless communication, and you can hook both devices up to the Matrix and communicate that way. The latter offers an advantage in range (signal strength not really relevant anymore), but also makes it easier to intercept the signal (more devices are used in the connection).

Bye
Thanee

If the Signal 2 Drone is within range of the matrix to send data back, then it is in range for you to communicate with it... it could be Signal 2 and you could be across the world and you could still control it, as long as it had matrix access...

Real Benefit... Not really... as it does not change anything in the way that the drone communicates with the Rigger...

Keep the Faith

I guess that's an answer of sorts. Even with a huge band width, you'd get overlap if you made the signal travel too far. Though, it would imply that all cars should come with sat-links standard. I mean, they're not going to put up towers every 400m on the highways...

As for what's different with a drone directed through the matrix, you then are required to send it instructions via the Command program, also you can't slave the device to your com to limit access.

Equip your rigger with a satlink and your drone with a satlink and you can now link together and slave your drone to your comlink with no regards to the Intervening Mesh Networks...

As for mesh networks, you can still slave the two together, the relays only send signals, they do not intercept them, as such, as long as you can establish 2-way communication within a mesh network, you can slave the drone to the rigger...

As for the Signal ranges of devices... there are times that you want a shorter range for transmissions, as such they gave us a system for that... it may not be perfect, but how many runners run with a signal range on their comlink at less than 4?

Keep the Faith

So... to sum it all up (and you best correct me if I'm wrong):

You can rig (jump into) a drone anywhere there is Matrix coverage but you need to go through the Matrix and any hacker in the Matrix can hack your feed.

You can rig a drone directly but you have to be in mutual signal range (drone can go as far away as the lowest signal rating between the two communicating devices). Harder to hack because then you have to intercept the signal; no Matrix hacks because the Matrix isn't part of this equation.

Essentially correct... though on the First case... they would still have to intercept the signal... and then travel to the Drone's node... and a Jumped in Drone has certain protections over a remote-commanded drone... Jumped in means that you cannot spoof the Drone, as there is a Human Pilot in the Drone... you would have to enter matrix combat to eject the rigger from the drone to take it over...

Or you can just hack the comlink of the rigger and follow his subscriptions, which might be what you are talking about in the first example...

Not sure if I answered your questions...

Keep the Faith