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Stahlseele
OK, so i jsut read 4 Taskmaster Comics and really like the Character as he is portrayed in there( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taskmaster ), but it raised one question for me

So Adepts get things like Cunning Linguist, Photographic Memory, 3D Memory, Multitasking and improved skill.
So WHY can one not combine those things into something that works like Cunning Linguist, but for Skills?
So a character with all of those powers in him sits down, studies an opera or a dancing competition live and in colour.
And makes after Magic Attribute Hours a Magic test like in Cunning Linguist and if he is successfull, he gets the skill.
At level 1. For no Karma-Cost. Heck, maybe make it an Adept Meta-Magic so he has to initiate at least once to get it.

Thoughts? Ideas? *whimpers with dread* Criticism? <.<
Glyph
I honestly think it would be too overpowered, no matter how it was implemented. A skill of 1 is still meaningful, and someone who could walk around picking up every skill in the book without spending Karma on them would be unbalancing for a game. I could see such a power making a skill take less training time, but not getting the skill for free.
Karoline
Yeah, the big difference here is that you're comparing a free point in a language skills (1 karma point, easily gained by cheap linguisoft, and only of limited importance) to a free point in an active skill (4 karma points, must have skill wires and more expensive skillsoft, and generally will be used often and possibly life saving)

Admittedly you're talking about spending far more power points for it, but all those powers still have other uses, and those uses are what you paid the power points for. If you get 'Oh, and you pick up skills for free' on top of that then the price is off.

Now, if you wanted to talk about creating an entirely separate 1-2+ point power that let you do that, there might be something to talk about, but otherwise getting that for free as a consequence of taking powers that are -already- useful in and of themselves, is just way too unbalanced.
Stahlseele
Hmm, maybe going at it to be basically a magical version of the technomancers biowire would be in order?
But the other approach would have been edition spanning. While using the Biowire stuff would only work for 4th Ed.
Mordinvan
How about an adept ability that creates a 'pool' of skill points which can be allocated to skills the adept has seen in action, and can be spread out as desired? ie, seems someone use an assault rifle, so dumps them there, then someone use kung-fu, so puts them there, then someone jumps a gap, so drops them in athletics, and promptly switches back to the rifles because he'd just used them to shoot the guy he's chasing.

I think this could be a little better, so long as the number of karma he has to drop into skills is determined or limited by the number of power points he has.
Stahlseele
Well, after rank one, he would spend karma as usual for raising the skill. Exactly like cunning linguist let's you get rank 1 in one language at a time and when you want more than that one rank, you raise again with karma . . But the changing skills stuff sounds kinda usefull there for some reason . . maybe make it so he can't use more of his stolen skills than he has initiate rankings?
So at Initiate Rank one, only Athletics OR Assault Rifles at a time, not both. Takes complex action to change between. Or any other kind of Action maybe? With Rank 2, he can use Athletics AND Assault Rifles at the same time, for awesome neo in the lobby moves . .
Karoline
Yeah, that does sound kinda feasible, but the problem is that it could be used rather munchkinly. An adept for instance could take the power, copy the gunbunny, and just never drop it to give himself 6 free ranks in whatever skill. Could do the same with a couple of other skills as well from other party members. Pick up 4 ranks in dodge as well.

While I very much love the idea behind this skill, the execution seems like it would be very difficult to pull off without being unbalancing, because you are talking about giving a character the ability to essentially get most of the skills in the book for free*

*besides the cost of the power, which would be hard to set against the potential.
Mordinvan
I was more thinking that the power would give X many ratings worth of skill, say 6 for just so we have a number to work with. Then he could have 6 R 1 skills, 1 R 6 skill or some combination there of. Maybe limit his max skill level using this power to his magic rating to limit the munchyness. Just a thought.
Stahlseele
Well, other boards suggested he can copy a maximum of magic attribute, can only have active number of initiations skills and can only have active number of initiation skills.
So level 1 initiate with raised magic attribute could copy 7 level 1 skills but only use one of them at a time. Level 2 initiate with magic 8 could have 2 level 2 skills at a time active but 8 copied over all.
And your roll would be magic attribute(+logic) versus the skill level being used by the time you are trying to copy it.
The Jake
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Oct 10 2009, 12:11 PM) *
Hmm, maybe going at it to be basically a magical version of the technomancers biowire would be in order?
But the other approach would have been edition spanning. While using the Biowire stuff would only work for 4th Ed.


Correct. TM's Biowire ability mimics this reasonably well....

- J.
Karoline
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Oct 11 2009, 06:17 AM) *
Well, other boards suggested he can copy a maximum of magic attribute, can only have active number of initiations skills and can only have active number of initiation skills.
So level 1 initiate with raised magic attribute could copy 7 level 1 skills but only use one of them at a time. Level 2 initiate with magic 8 could have 2 level 2 skills at a time active but 8 copied over all.
And your roll would be magic attribute(+logic) versus the skill level being used by the time you are trying to copy it.


That means you'd have to initiate before this could be of any use. Are we talking about making this an adept metamagic now instead of a power?

I'm guessing biowire is in Unwired (funnily enough)?
Mikado
I like the idea for using biowire for this. By using biowires as a base you also add the "can't use edge" skillwire rule. Which makes sense because he is only learning what he is doing from a book and not through trial and error. He does not have the what works and what does not work background to help him out.
Stahlseele
QUOTE (Karoline @ Oct 11 2009, 03:05 PM) *
That means you'd have to initiate before this could be of any use. Are we talking about making this an adept metamagic now instead of a power?

I'm guessing biowire is in Unwired (funnily enough)?

Well, making it straight new power out of chargen seems too difficult to balance propperly, so yes, basically MetaMagic for Adepts.
Also, Biowire is in Unwired, you got that one right.
QUOTE (Mikado @ Oct 11 2009, 04:05 PM) *
I like the idea for using biowire for this. By using biowires as a base you also add the "can't use edge" skillwire rule. Which makes sense because he is only learning what he is doing from a book and not through trial and error. He does not have the what works and what does not work background to help him out.

actually, i had forgotten about that <.<
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
Actually, I think that Biowires as Metamagic for an Adept would be an interesting solution to this dilemma... I will have to play with it a bit for any decision, but I would think that this would work well...

Thanks Stahlseele, Great idea

Keep the Faith
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
OOoooooops, Double Post... Gotta hate Screen Lag... Sorry
Stahlseele
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Oct 11 2009, 07:05 PM) *
Actually, I think that Biowires as Metamagic for an Adept would be an interesting solution to this dilemma... I will have to play with it a bit for any decision, but I would think that this would work well...

Thanks Stahlseele, Great idea

Keep the Faith

Niuce to hear ^^
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Oct 11 2009, 10:14 AM) *
Niuce to hear ^^



Hey, No Problem... Credit where credit is due after all...

Keep the Faith
Mordinvan
I'll have to read biowire, to get an idea about it, but looking at limiting the skill level by initiate level, that seems a little harsh to me. It makes the ability nearly pointless for anyone with less then 3 levels of initiate, unless you just trying to avoid defaulting.
Mordinvan
double post.
Stahlseele
QUOTE (Mordinvan @ Oct 11 2009, 10:42 PM) *
I'll have to read biowire, to get an idea about it, but looking at limiting the skill level by initiate level, that seems a little harsh to me. It makes the ability nearly pointless for anyone with less then 3 levels of initiate, unless you just trying to avoid defaulting.

Well, in SR4, Skill level of 1 is actually usefull with higher attributes . . In SR3, Skill level 1 meant a 1 in 6 Chance of Critical Fumble, so there's not really much incentive anyway i am afraid . .
Biowire is pretty much your usual skillwire, but instead of grade the immersion of the TM is used in the stats.
bmcoomes
I could see the biowires and emulation working well as a magic version. But I perfer higher power games anyways.

Edit: with biowires as a metamagic and emulation as an advanced adept power.
bmcoomes
OK a quick write up, remeber it's was quickly done so it's basicly plegerized. I've yet to do a power cost thought it would be in the 1-2 power point range.

Meta-Psychomotor skillsuite (adept only)
Taking the meta-magic technique of Meta-Psychomotor skillsuite, the adept receives the ability to imitate the neuroelectrical and neuromuscular network of his body such that is can work similarly to skillwire cyberware system (p. 342, SR4a). In game terms, it operate with a rating equal to the initiation grade of the adept. In all other regards, it follows the basic rules of skillwire systems. However, since adepts are unable to process active skillsoft programs, they must have the adept power Meta-Psychomotor skill emulation to convert them into skillsoft-like programs to interpret and process them in their “language” by Meta-Psychomotor skill emulation.

Meta-Psychomotor skill emulation
Initiate Adepts with the Meta-Psychomotor skill emulation can use this power to convert skillsofts into a magic skill formula that their neuromuscular system can process. To set up the meta-psychomotor skill emulation, the adept makes a Magic (skillsoft rating) Test. If the program contains other program ratings, raise the threshold by the number of program options or rating points. If he succeeds, he has converted the program into a magic skill formula. He can now either sustain the formula similar to how magicians sustain a spell (-2 dice pool modifier) or memorize the formula as a “quickened” formula by paying an amount of Karma equal to the rating (+1 for any program option or program option rating).
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (bmcoomes @ Oct 11 2009, 02:54 PM) *
OK a quick write up, remeber it's was quickly done so it's basicly plegerized. I've yet to do a power cost thought it would be in the 1-2 power point range.

Meta-Psychomotor skillsuite (adept only)
Taking the meta-magic technique of Meta-Psychomotor skillsuite, the adept receives the ability to imitate the neuroelectrical and neuromuscular network of his body such that is can work similarly to skillwire cyberware system (p. 342, SR4a). In game terms, it operate with a rating equal to the initiation grade of the adept. In all other regards, it follows the basic rules of skillwire systems. However, since adepts are unable to process active skillsoft programs, they must have the adept power Meta-Psychomotor skill emulation to convert them into skillsoft-like programs to interpret and process them in their “language” by Meta-Psychomotor skill emulation.

Meta-Psychomotor skill emulation
Initiate Adepts with the Meta-Psychomotor skill emulation can use this power to convert skillsofts into a magic skill formula that their neuromuscular system can process. To set up the meta-psychomotor skill emulation, the adept makes a Magic (skillsoft rating) Test. If the program contains other program ratings, raise the threshold by the number of program options or rating points. If he succeeds, he has converted the program into a magic skill formula. He can now either sustain the formula similar to how magicians sustain a spell (-2 dice pool modifier) or memorize the formula as a “quickened” formula by paying an amount of Karma equal to the rating (+1 for any program option or program option rating).



I would make it a Magic + Arcana Test myself

Keep the Faith
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