Old player, new to 4th.

According to SR4A (p311), 'Integral accessories (those that come with the weapon) don't take up mount locations'.

This seems ambiguous to me... Integral accessories not taking up a mount slot is pretty clear, since these are internal. However, the qualifier regarding 'accessories that come with the weapon' seems to imply that parts listed as top/bottom/barrel that come with the weapon don't actually take up the mount, leaving it open. This would be a major change from previous editions.

So does it A - only refer to 'integral' parts, or B - anything that comes with the weapon doesn't take a slot?

And while I'm on the subject, assuming answer A is correct... If an accessory comes with the weapon, but isn't listed as integral, can it be removed to make room for something else, or does it permanently fill that location?


I'm still trying to play catchup with the changes to weapon mods. Limiting most recoil compensation mods to full auto weapons only, and removing gas vents from shotguns entirely makes a lot of sense, but I miss my tricked out Enfield AS-7 from prior editions.

Alrighty, lets us see... Now, this is just my opinion on the interpretation of the rules, and I don't have anything official to back it up really, but my understanding is this: Integral means that it is part of the gun, and cannot be removed (It has been integrated into the gun). Anything that is listed as coming with the gun is integral, and thus does not take up Mod slots (From Arsenal), they also don't take up a top/bottom/barrel accessory slot unless specifically mentioned as being top/bottom/barrel mounted.

So the integral top mounted laser sight is part of the gun and thus can't be removed, but is also on the top of the weapon, and thus takes up the 'top' accessory slot.

This is just how I read the rules based mostly on terminology, hope it helps.

...quite agree. Consider the Fichetti Security 600 (SR4A, 317) which comes with a laser sight and *doesn't* specify top-mounted. That says to me that it's built into the weapon itself rather then being a bolt-on, which means you still have space for the bolt-on accessory.

Arsenal states that anything integral to the weapon doesn't take up any modification slots. The Browning Ultra Power has a "built-in top mounted laser sight". To me the fact that it's 'built-in' means it doesn't take up any spots, it just seems to be built in on top of the gun. The picture shows it as much.

It may look weird, and realistically impossible, but the rules will allow a Smartgun Top mount (for example) to be placed on top of the laser, looking quite odd.

Meaning, you have 3 accessory slots and 6 modification slots for each gun, regardless of what it comes with.

Could not have stated it better myself...

Keep the Faith

I have to disagree with you here... See Karoline's previous post as a base referent...

Keep the Faith...

Yes, and Karoline pretty much states that it's her read on it. There are no rules that say anything about a built-in mounted item taking an accessory slot. By definition, built in means it's built in. The accessory slots go on top of the gun.

I lean towards Karoline's view myself. But I do so knowing that there's no specific declaration one way or another.

One can argue, as I would, that a built-in mounted accessory simply means it is an accessory that cannot be removed. The rules are ambiguous in this case, and frankly there's limited potential for abuse.

I guess what I'm saying is that while I would personally hold off on mounting an accessory on a location with a built-in accessory, the rules as they are say its fair game.

Emphasis mine. Notice that Arsenal says that integral mods do not take up Modification slots. It doesn't mention anything about accessory slots, which are an entirely different thing. All guns (unless specifically stated otherwise) do indeed come with 6 modification slots, reguardless of how many whizbangs already come with the gun. It does not however state anything at all about accessory slots. The very fact that some guns make special mention of the laser sight being 'top mounted' or not, seems to indicate that some of them take up the top accessory slot and some do not. Otherwise, why mention that the laser is top mounted? It can't be so that you get a better idea of what the gun looks like, because other than that the description is basically 'gun' for every single weapon.

One could also argue that "built-in" means that the accessory has already been added to the appropriate space on the weapon as well, and is not an "integral" piece of the weapon... it is just already added... Kind of like that optional CD player in your car...

Semantics, But there you go...

Keep the Faith