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spasheridan
Hi All-

My group is gearing up for a Shadowrun campaign. We're looking over rules and options - I'm trying my hand at a build and I'm running into an issue - maybe you guys can give me some insight on how the gear all interacts. My concept - an Orc with a cyberarm who has a little fight in him (orc stat buffs and smartlink, some inititiave boosts) and can use drones & hack a little. Somewhere between a combat hacker & a B&E thug.

So, to be a hacker I need to be able to get AR & VR. A commlink with a simsense rig gets you AR, hack the rig and you can make it so you can do the hot VR side of hacking.

SO - if I understand this, I can use a cell phone with a simsense rig built into the phone and connect this to my brain with a datajack. When I run the phone into AR mode it superimposes images & sounds over my realworld view. Just like a display link? Just like a soundlink? When I run the phone in hot VR I get tactile information as well as visual & sound from my datajack?

Now I want to rig drones. I need a simrig. A simrig translates vehicle data into some kinesthetic data so when I go VR into my drones I feel it while I fly it. So, what does the simrig do that the simsense rig doesn't do? Better yet, what does the simsense rig do that the simrig doesn't do? Why do I need both?

Now I want to shoot my smartgun. Smartguns need you to have a display link in your eyes and a smartlink in your eyes. The smartlink is slaved to the gun and translates the smartgun info in some way, then sends it to your display link so you can see where the smartgun is firing.

What does the display link do that the the simrig doesn't do? If a simsense rig can insert AR data into my visual cortex, why do I need a display link to insert data into my eyeballs? If a simrig for rigging can insert VR & AR data into my body for rigging, why do I need a simsense rig for hacking?


Looking at my cyberarm - I can put a commlink in it. I can put a simsense rig in my arm as well. I can also put a simsense rig in my commlink - so if I do that, do I still pay the capacity for the simsense rig? Do I even need one with my simrig?

Final question - do wired reflexes increase your speed while hacking or rigging?

Thanks!
LurkerOutThere
Welcome

I'll try and answer your questions the best as i can.

QUOTE (spasheridan @ Oct 19 2009, 01:36 PM) *
So, to be a hacker I need to be able to get AR & VR. A commlink with a simsense rig gets you AR, hack the rig and you can make it so you can do the hot VR side of hacking.


Well it's a bit of a hardware change as well but yes essentially that's the case.


QUOTE
SO - if I understand this, I can use a cell phone with a simsense rig built into the phone and connect this to my brain with a datajack. When I run the phone into AR mode it superimposes images & sounds over my realworld view. Just like a display link? Just like a soundlink? When I run the phone in hot VR I get tactile information as well as visual & sound from my datajack?

Yes although AR data can include emotives and other senses. In essence your datajack is a direct line to your brain for processing information trodes can function similarly but ti's hard to beat the datajacks utility and always on capability. As a word of personal preferfrence If your planing on being a primary droner/hacker I recommend a implanted comlink personally.

QUOTE
Now I want to rig drones. I need a simrig. A simrig translates vehicle data into some kinesthetic data so when I go VR into my drones I feel it while I fly it. So, what does the simrig do that the simsense rig doesn't do? Better yet, what does the simsense rig do that the simrig doesn't do? Why do I need both?


I don't think there is a difference I've always been somewhat fuzzy on this myself.

QUOTE
Now I want to shoot my smartgun. Smartguns need you to have a display link in your eyes and a smartlink in your eyes. The smartlink is slaved to the gun and translates the smartgun info in some way, then sends it to your display link so you can see where the smartgun is firing.
By the rules you need a display link and a smartgun system. Of the two I would say that the smartgun system itself is what's absolutely necissary the argument I can see for the display link is it's partially relevent because of where it inserts the data into your perception and tracks the way your eyes are looking to help you line up the shot. However if a player with a datajack came to me with your same argument I could likely be swayed. Having said that I heartily recommend cybereyes to any cybered character as they add a lot of ability to the character.


QUOTE
Looking at my cyberarm - I can put a commlink in it. I can put a simsense rig in my arm as well. I can also put a simsense rig in my commlink - so if I do that, do I still pay the capacity for the simsense rig? Do I even need one with my simrig?

By the rules no, the comlink mod rules from unwired felt like they were written slight out of step with the other rules.

QUOTE
Final question - do wired reflexes increase your speed while hacking or rigging?


Ah finally an easy one. The answer is not really, they can provide additional actions in the meat world that can be used to hack in AR but full VR no wireless reflexes have no impact.
hobgoblin
a simrig is for recording sensory and emotional data.

do no not really need anything other then comlink and a sim module (basically only the playback part of the simrig, but also allows commands to be fed back to the comlink) to do both AR hacking, VR hacking (cold sim, or hot sim with a hardware mod, difference being the VR initiative, and that hot sim exposes the user to lethal biofeedback from blackhammer attacks) and rigging.

a simrig should not be confused with a control rig, as its the control rig that gives bonuses to controlling vehicles that have had rigger adaption added (or was sold with it preinstalled).
Mantis
If you have a sim rig you don't need a sim module as the sim rig includes a sim module. The sim rig records simsense data and has the functions of a trode net and a sim module. The sim rig is also needed if you want to use tac software and take advantage of all your senses for the tac net. Otherwise you can just use a sim module modded for hot sim for hacking.
A control rig is useful for controlling vehicles and replaces the old vehicle control rig from SR 1-3, which was essentially wired reflexes for riggers.
Wired reflexes can help you drive vehicle in AR as it increases your reaction score, but provides no advantage in VR or being fully jumped into a drone/vehicle.
Hope that helps. You can find all this in SR4a pg 328(sim rig and module) and 338 (control rig).
EDIT: And as I was typing this up, Hobgoblin beat me to it....
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Oct 19 2009, 02:18 PM) *
a simrig is for recording sensory and emotional data.

do no not really need anything other then comlink and a sim module (basically only the playback part of the simrig, but also allows commands to be fed back to the comlink) to do both AR hacking, VR hacking (cold sim, or hot sim with a hardware mod, difference being the VR initiative, and that hot sim exposes the user to lethal biofeedback from blackhammer attacks) and rigging.

a simrig should not be confused with a control rig, as its the control rig that gives bonuses to controlling vehicles that have had rigger adaption added (or was sold with it preinstalled).



But please note that the Control Rig is NOT NECESSARY to be a rigger, it just adds 2 additional dice to your pool...
3278
QUOTE (spasheridan @ Oct 19 2009, 06:36 PM) *
So, to be a hacker I need to be able to get AR & VR. A commlink with a simsense rig gets you AR, hack the rig and you can make it so you can do the hot VR side of hacking.

SO - if I understand this, I can use a cell phone with a simsense rig built into the phone and connect this to my brain with a datajack.

If you have a commlink with a sim module, you don't need a cell phone - the commlink is your cell phone - and you don't need a datajack - your commlink is your datajack, only wireless and not wired. The sim module needs to be modified, as you note, if you want to run hot VR.

QUOTE (spasheridan @ Oct 19 2009, 06:36 PM) *
Now I want to rig drones. I need a simrig.

No, you don't. As others have noted, the simrig is for recording simsense, not for playing back sensory information. Your sim module does what you need. [If you do get a simrig, it includes a sim module, per page 328, SR4a.]

QUOTE (spasheridan @ Oct 19 2009, 06:36 PM) *
Now I want to shoot my smartgun. Smartguns need you to have a display link in your eyes and a smartlink in your eyes.

If you want to go cyber with the whole thing, yes. Image link, not display link, but yes.

QUOTE (spasheridan @ Oct 19 2009, 06:36 PM) *
What does the display link do that the the simrig doesn't do? If a simsense rig can insert AR data into my visual cortex, why do I need a display link to insert data into my eyeballs? If a simrig for rigging can insert VR & AR data into my body for rigging, why do I need a simsense rig for hacking?

I would rule you could use the sim module to interpret AR data from the smartlink, but I'm pretty generous, and the smartlinks in previous versions used a particular simsense protocol. Your GM may not agree, and the rules as written [in the main book, where I'm looking at the moment] don't allow such a variance.

QUOTE (spasheridan @ Oct 19 2009, 06:36 PM) *
Final question - do wired reflexes increase your speed while hacking or rigging?

I don't want to use the general term "speed," but as far as I know, wired reflexes continue to provide their bonuses to both reaction and initiative passes even when you're in AR or VR.
hobgoblin
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Oct 20 2009, 04:36 AM) *
But please note that the Control Rig is NOT NECESSARY to be a rigger, it just adds 2 additional dice to your pool...

and reduce the threshold for vehicle tests by 1, about the same as adding 3 dice to the pool on average...
Dakka Dakka
QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Oct 20 2009, 09:36 AM) *
and reduce the threshold for vehicle tests by 1, about the same as adding 3 dice to the pool on average...
No this from being in VR, which is possible entirely without 'ware(sim module+trodes).
PlainWhiteSocks
QUOTE
Final question - do wired reflexes increase your speed while hacking or rigging?


I believe it works while you're in AR, but not while in VR, since AR uses the meat body values while VR uses Response + Intuition.

It's a little wierd with drones cause when you jump into one you're operating in full VR mode, but using your initiative. I would guess you get the wired reflexes bonus because the drone operates on your initiative passes and such while you're in it. If you're not in it you're just issuing commands done as a regular part of initiative.
I suppose you could use the extra initiative passes you get when operating in hot VR mode from your commlink to issue more drone commands. However, your wired reflexes wouldn't be used because you're in full VR mode through your commlink.

Hope that makes some sense to you.

Dakka Dakka
QUOTE (PlainWhiteSocks @ Oct 20 2009, 05:51 PM) *
It's a little wierd with drones cause when you jump into one you're operating in full VR mode, but using your initiative. I would guess you get the wired reflexes bonus because the drone operates on your initiative passes and such while you're in it. If you're not in it you're just issuing commands done as a regular part of initiative.
Ah, no. When the rigger jumps into the drone, the drone operates at the rigger's matrix initiative - score and passes.

QUOTE (PlainWhiteSocks @ Oct 20 2009, 05:51 PM) *
I suppose you could use the extra initiative passes you get when operating in hot VR mode from your commlink to issue more drone commands. However, your wired reflexes wouldn't be used because you're in full VR mode through your commlink.
Correct
3278
Wow, I missed that. You're absolutely right, Dakka Dakka. I'm about to start playing my first SR4 drone rigger, and...well, I think I'm going to be AR all the time. I'm going to have to revisit my character, now.
DWC
If you go the Adept route, you can be AR all the time fairly painlessly. Pick up the Improved Reflexes, Improved Ability (Gunnery), Improved Ability (Pilot Aircraft), Improved Ability (Pilot Ground Vehicle), and possibly Improved Ability (Electronic Warfare), slap on a skinlinked commlink optimized for Command with a Custom Interface, and have a blast murdering things in AR Remote Control mode.
hobgoblin
QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Oct 20 2009, 11:38 AM) *
No this from being in VR, which is possible entirely without 'ware(sim module+trodes).

indeed, seems i had it backwards.

maybe my brain sorted it that way, as its the only way to make the control rig worth it...
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Oct 20 2009, 12:56 PM) *
indeed, seems i had it backwards.

maybe my brain sorted it that way, as its the only way to make the control rig worth it...



+2 Dice is still pretty nice, but it is pretty expensive for those 2 dice admittedly...

Keep the Faith
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