Are there any explicit rules for how this is handled? I'm not finding anything in any of the books. I've got a rough framework for a workshop lifestyle, and the associated tools, equipment, etc. How do I decide if the stuff sells?.. or do I just build and dump it on a fence? Is this sort of activity not appropriate for the setting?

The Runner's Companion has new rules about life style that covers this. There is a quality called day job or something that it's a legal job the character has aside the shadowrunning job. Now, having a second job means less time to do other stuffs (like looking for gear, learning spells, etc...) without the fact that you might have to skip your job sometimes because of your shadowrunning activities...
This kind of thing works best for retired/semi-retired runners.

I had a player in 3rd edition that realized how easy it was to make Orichalcum (Easy, but time consuming). I told him that he could set up shop, but as soon as he did, he was making a new character. Partly because I was trying to keep the game "Low key" and wasn't handing out huge run payments and didn't want a large cash infusion into the game, and partly because if you can make 100K+ a month making Orichalcum, why the fuck would you go and shadowrun ever again?

My point exactly, for any job that you get 10K+ per month is already a better job than doing runs, unless of course you are some kind of daredevil/adrenaline addict.

I'm surprised more Shadowrunners don't play the stock market. Talk about insider knowledge.

"Clancy? Fine, fine, How're you? Good to hear. Hey, look, I need you to sell my Wuxing stock. Yeah, all of it, right now. Call it a hunch. What, that? Nah, the neighbor has the trid turned up too high, don't worry about it. Yeah, talk to you soon, alright?"

My answer would likely be similar to Bull's, probably for similar reasons: I'd consult the players, and ask them if this was where they wanted the game to go. If the answer is yes, then we need reexamine the campaign and the story we're looking to tell.

Otherwise it's time for a new character.

Seeing as this IS a new character, it looks like the concept is out of place. Thanks for the help. Time for a re-write.

Seems like the thread for this, but its something I've been wondering in my game - How do your character's go about making money? Beyond just what the johnson pays you for dirty work, what are some reasonable ways to be proactive about income without looting everything? I mean, reasonable ways to pay for low-end equipment, or even rent.

1. Bodyguarding in your spare time
2. Become a Made man for your criminal organization of choice
3. Bouncer at your favorite watering hole/strip club
4. Unexplained Dayjob Negative Quality

Keep the Faith

Hm. Its a good start - and thanks. Any ideas on the matrix side of things? Cybercrime, paydata, and the like?

My character needs to finance some drones, and.......... I have no idea what to pitch to the gm as an attempt to do that.

Why FINANCE Drones? Just go out and hijack them...

Keep the Faith

They don't come with autosofts, alphas, or decent sensors(usually). And those have to come from -somewhere-


Edit: Seriously, a rating 5 camera with decent options can run near a grand itself. Another grand for an SMG or a decent auto-fire weapon. Even at half-off for doing the work yourself, the nuyen adds up. Where DO you get the scratch to do buy that kind of stuff, if you don't have the capability to steal it off the truck yourself?

I don't know about that... MOst of the high-end drones that runners use, the Corps and Security firms use... it is a little bit of a risk, but if you are good, quick, and a bit lucky, you might be able to scam one or two a month for a month or two, this will help your budget out a lot... as for teh other stuff... you can get those baseline rating 4 autosofts on the cheap by utilizing cracked copies or finding yourself a freeware distributor (Up to Rating 4 Freeware is .... Free... Assuming that the optional rule is being used)

Lots of opportunities to acquire what you need, it just might take a little time and risk...

Keep the Faith

SR PirateBay, Ares Transport Trucks, and Ares Transport Trucks.

I was under the impression that most of the Triple-A's were privately owned, which was why Novatech's IPO was watched with such great interest.

I earmarked my first 100,000 in character creation for drones, and have spent another 30,000 sense getting the sensors where they needed to be. It's an expensive hobby...of course, three passes with an Ares HVAR at -6 recoil makes it all worthwhile.

Good ideas in this thread about stealing them - you should talk to your GM about running a one-on one for trying to spoof one. Great chance to try out the Electronic Warfare rules, and you can walk away with a 10k drone easy. It's ballsy, but the Arsenal Listing for the Law Enforcement Rotordrone says they come stock with a manipulator arm and a weapon mount, which will save you another 8k easy. If you could pay some gangers to draw the cops in while you play Harmless Bum in the next alley, you could have the thing stolen before they know what's up.

Or you could wind up in prison. You know. Just sayin'.

Those are the risks that one takes...

Oh, and by the way... Drones with mounted weapons (assuming that you are using drones of small size and up, kind of hard to mount an HVAR on a Flyspy after all) do not suffer any recoil penalties for the weapons that they mount... Just sayin'

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The stock market was covered in this thread.

As for setting up a shop, as other said, if you get more money in your shop than shadowrunning, then your character isn't (or shouldn't be) a Shadowrunner.

Because of the ability to create any kind of character, you can create character that aren't runners. A SINner character with good medical skills and a clinic (or a dayjob in one) won't be a Shadowrunner without a really good reason (and "because it's fun" only works if he's a toon).

It's a bit like the eternal questions of why run the shadows when you can:
- steal cars/drones
- steal paydata from corps
- steal jewels
- use your impressive skills in a less risky job.

Many answers can be given, but it depends from the setting you want:
- Shadowrunning pays more
- Corps/criminal syndicates/other have a monopoly on the market and will break your legs if you try to get inside
- Corps/criminal syndicates/other protects the runner from the consequences of their actions (once you've given the stolen prototype to Mr. Johnson, the corp has no reason to spend resources to catch you, if you steal cars/drones regularly you'll eventually get caught...)
- Because of your past or some part of your daily life you can't have a business and keep it for long (sooner or later, your enemies will destroy it)
- You don't care about money, what you want is to fight the Man/get revenge/etc.

But in some campaign, having a business might still be ok if it's a plot hook or if it's the goal of the character (when he gets it, he retires or the campaign focuses itself on the shop).
It's just that having a business just for the sake of making more money doesn't add any flavor and just destroys game balance as well as verisimillitude.

You should think carefully before allowing a player to open a small business. Your game will quickly become 6th World Entrepreneurs, as the PC seeks to improve their business and grab more market share. It's a lot of extra paperwork which bores the other PCs silly. And, as has been pointed out in this thread, the economics of shadowrunning often enough to make an RPG campaign out of it simply don't work out. You have to have weekly adventures that pay little enough that the PCs don't retire. As a hacker, why not just spoof life half the time, and the other half work for a small IT outfit? As a magician, why not just put up wards and sell uses of your heal spell? As a rigger, why not be a trucker or limo driver? You can make a comfortable living without getting your ass shot off on a weekly basis. But if all the characters went and got day jobs, that wouldn't make for much of a fun game. So you just have to pretend that isn't true, and get back to the shadows.

Yeah, that's pretty much the conclusion our group came to as well. If the character is looking to settle down, it's no longer shadowrun. There has to be a reason they want or need to continue to run... one that doesn't allow for a stable domestic life. In the end, I used some hardware skill and a workshop as a means to pay for said lifestyle. While technically there may be a shortage or overage on a given month, on average it exactly pays for itself, leaving no extra. This means my character can focus on running and the details involved, as opposed to finding money to eat that week.

You can't buy stocks without a SIN. Hence, most runners can't own stocks (and those that do may invite unwanted attention).

I also had a character go into making gold radicals (higher profit margin than orichalcum). He quickly learned that there aren't a lot of buyers available, and that competition is pretty fierce - like using violence fierce. He made some cash on the side, but it was hardly enough to pull him out of running, and his shop was broken into more than once.

Of course you can buy stocks without a legitimate SIN. The 6th World is full of criminal syndicates. There are going to be gray market financial services available.

On the subject of small business, though...you could make it the campaign. The PCs would be the owners and/or employees of a small shadow business, and the action of the campaign would be in competing in the marketplace. They could manufacture drugs or explosives with Chemistry skill, or they could be a fixer team, or they could operate an illegal garage. They'd have to deal with competition, criminal syndicates wanting a piece, law enforcement trying to shut them down, etc.

They could even run a gray market financial services company.

It all comes down to the kind of campaign tha the players and GM want to run... Beat Cops (play a Lone Star or Knight Errant campaign), Medical HTR (How about Crashcart), Low End Gangers (The Spikes taking terrotory back from the Ancients), Entrepreneurialship (Running that prifitable Courier/Excort Business), Journalists (Kapow, Kapoow, News at 1100)...

You can have a great variety in the stories that you tell... but everyone needs to be on the same page or it will not work.

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I volunteered to use the Body=RC optional ruleset in Arsenal for my rotordrones - they're already dangerous enough, and it's not like they can brace properly.

Kind of like saying an Apache can't brace properly agains the recoil of the 25mm Chaingun that it fires...

But hey, it is an optional rule for a reason...

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Interestingly, our team of players has decided (Without much railroading by myself) to set up a security company and that has lead to non-stop fun as they source a location ("Yes! Secret base! I'm gonna call it....CORBA MOUNTAIN") and try and set it up. The mages could easily sit back and churn out radicals and live off the proceeds, but this enables them to have a "fall back" option.

Also, it enables them to carry, legitimately, some of the scarier stuff they've liberated. It also allows the resident Master Chief fan to drive his Ferrari Appolosa (spelling?) light scout as a company "security vehicle".

This has lead to pretty much everyone rolling "New hire" characters and we're slowly slotting them into the whole company concept.
(Also, for the new hires, the mages are insisting on ritual samples and the gun nut has decided that they must pass a skill 4 of pistols/rifles before we consider them)

No, we are not "Assests Inc" or even "Aquisitions Inc"

Tir


Red Seven
_Security Concepts_
"If you don't hire us, they will"

Interesting Indeed... Good Luck...

Keep the Faith

When the A-10 fires it's main cannon it loses airspeed.

In other news:

I've decided to start a marine salvage company in LA and have railroaded the rest of my group into it, along with the GM. I've read the bit in corporate enclaves about LA, are there any other resources I (or my GM) should be looking into?

Ok, how does one "railroad" everyone else into your little sidetrek? It seems to me that unless there was a really good reason for everyone to stick around the rest of the team would simply wish you good luck and go their seperate ways.

We had a fun game where we ran a grey market security firm. We did investigations, red teaming, design and install of alarms and drone networks, bodyguarding, arms sales, etc. Worked pretty good. Part of the deal was that we never ran against a customer or ex-customer (at least any that didn't unreasonably stiff us) or Ares.

You know it's a lot easier to get cool toys quickly when you can just send a PO to Ares instead of talking to guys named Vinnie in alleys behind bars?

That is an A-10... The only vehicle that I know about that Flies that does so...

Keep the Faith

Ever been on an M-109 during a hipshoot? It's a pretty good ride when the cannon goes off without the spades fully driven in.

Can't say as I have... Though I was talking about Flying weapons platforms...
I am sure that Mobile artillery has some problems with Firing and moving in some capacity, hell, even tanks had this problem for a while, thoguh if I remember correctly, the M1A1 tank (and up) does not have this problem (Could be be wrong about the variant though)

Keep the Faith kzt