hi I just started playing 4th edition and I seem to have read that spell casting foci can be used for drain. Is this in the RAW or is it some old/house rule?

I also wanted to know if net hits on spell casting rolls always has to be resisted by drain? In some examples in the Annerversity rule book the threshold is increased by net successes in others they are not.

Any help is appreciated!

Apparently Spell Casting Foci being used for Drain has been Errattad out... teh only Foci I know of that helps with drain is the Centering Foci, but you have to be an initiate and have Centering (Metamagic) to use it.

Resisting Net Hits for Spells does not matter for Drain... Drain is F/2 +/- a Modifier, Net hits never figure into the equation unless you are using the Optional Rules that apply to Direct Combat Spells...

Keep the Faith

As far as I can see the book says nothing about this being an optional rule. Were does this come from?

Simple... SR4A, Page 204, 2nd Full paragraph, left side of page, Last Sentence of the Paragraph (Prior to section on Indirect Combat Spells)...

Keep the Faith

Yes so much I have found, but I don't see it say its an optional rule in this paragraph?

And thanks for all your help. As my group is new to the Shadowrun system we want to try to play by the rules, so it makes a difference for our group wether this really is an optional rule or not.

I have seen several people mention this as being optional, but I haven't been able to find that written anywhere.

(emphasis mine)

In my opinion, this "optional" rule is the worst rule that the game designers have introduced. There is no other game mechanic where achieving more hits causes direct harm to the character taking the action.

[Admittedly there are situations where a character could indirectly harm himself with more hits, such as using gel rounds to knock out a target: too many hits will overflow into physical damage, or hitting a pillar that supports the ceiling above the character's head, etc.]

If the game designers wanted to increase the drain from direct spells, they should have ... increased the drain.

1. They errata'd out withholding dice from a spellcasting/summoning/binding focus to help w/ drain. But they did. If you're trying to stick RAW, then it's gone. The only reason I can think of is it discourages overcasting/oversummoning, and spirits over say force 6 start to get silly.

2. The optional rule is that net hits *APPLIED TO DAMAGE* on direct spells add to drain, is exactly that an optional rule (so yes it's both RAW and optional). It's because generally direct spells are much more efficient than indirect ones. However, lets say I cast a force 5, 5 hits... target resists w/ 2. I have a choice, I can either take the base drain of the force 5 casting, or I can up the drain and damage by 1 for each hit. It's not all that much different than say a healing spell... I score 6 hits on the heal, I can heal 6 boxes of damage over 6 turns (not passes), or I could reduce the healing time by reducing the raw amount (EG: I could heal 6 in 6, 5 in 4, 4 in 2, or 3 in zero turns (1 complex action pass).

Really the big change there is that it encourages both multicasting or overcasting on direct spells now. Rather than getting more damage by casting say force 7 and using 3 net hits to increase damage to 10. It's more efficient in some cases to cast 2 force 5's at once (at +1 drain each) for a total of 10 or just risk force 9 or 10 drain right away by overcasting. (problem is you're splitting the dice pool before modifiers so each one is less likely to work, and hits (not net hits) are capped at force of 5 on each).

For awhile the optional rule was primary but the devs backed down from the angry mobs waving pitchforks. Personally I like that rule.

Always glad to help...
The last sentence stresses that the rule is indeed optional, go back and read it, you will see... (it is not in a sidebar... it is embedded in the text for Direct Spells)

Keep the Faith

I never like a rule that encourages OVercasting...

Example...

Foce 5 Manabolt, Max Hits of 5 attained... Your options are to take base Drain (2s, not applying your 1 net hit for effect), or you could take up to +5 Drain for a range of 3s to 7s) for damage ranging from 6 to 10 against your target...

Force 10 Manabolt, 1 Net Hit Generated... Damage is 10p... and you have not applied damage with your 1 net hit...

Using this scenario, with a generic built mage, you will soak damage form both spells at maximum Damage 10 (as the Overcast spell is going to do a minimum of 10 damage, taking 1 box of Physical damage for the overcast spell, and 3 points of stun on the non-Overcast Spell (Most Drain stats I have seen in play range from 9-15 Drain Dice, with an average of 11-12), of which both can be healed by mundane healing... easier to heal 1 box physical than 3 boxes stun... also, a common option for a lot of mages in play is to obtain a Trauma Damper, so that 1 Physical Drain becomes 1 Stun (Granted, with the same system, the Stun Damage from the Force 5 Spell is reduce by one as well, so the character takes 2s for the equivalent amount of damage, which is still more than the overcast spell)...

So, with that rule in place, there is a greater incentive to Overcast (More Damage, less Drain) than there is to not... any option that is of greater benefit will soon become the only option... ergo, Overcasting will become more common (or the only option as it were) in such a scenario, and I would think that it is a bad idea...

Keep the Faith