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Sixgun_Sage
I'm a huge fan of Jim Butcher's novels of chicago wizard Harry Dresden, and for a long time have wanted to play in that setting, looking over the rules it seems to me the closest I'll come to it is an adaptation of SR4. I've got some ideas on how to do this (your magic attribute is also your rating for the Gremlins quality) but would like to hear suggestions from any fellow fans of those novels here on Dumpshock.
Ravor
Well off the top of my head I think I'd have Grelims be ( Magic/2 ) capped at ( Rating 4 ) as otherwise the meeting of the White Council wouldn't be possible since not even ancient Ford pickups could stand up under the stress from someone who can call down obital junk to smite people who pisses him off.


Either give everyone a Geas of "mutter while casting" or increase the drain if a Mage doesn't do said muttering, on the nastier side of things make the Drain physical and/or unresistable when broken.


Everyone uses limited fetishs, foci, and unquie enchantments, Foci Addiction simply isn't a problem.


Ritual Magic needs completely reworked, it doesn't take nearly as long and ritual links are easy and quick.


Perhaps Drain should be increased across the board, no more magic than Dresdin throws he's always crowing about how very very few wizards could match him.


For that matter, wizards heal much, much better than mundanes if I remember correctly, but as quickly as healing is in Fourth Edition anyways perhaps just have wizards use the normal rules and mundanes have increased time limits between checks.


Perhaps get rid of summoning/binding completely, all spirits are considered "free spirits" and use those rules.
Bitten the Bug
Ritual magic do exist in the Dresden universe. Remember when he had to start up little Chicago and use it to hunt for Molly Carpenter?? Ritual magic.
Hours of prepping for it.

Drain would be harder if it is done without prepping. Just like Dresden do.

Spells: No complex formulaes, just pure willpower and intelligence. Thus making the target numbers harder and higher. Magic also depends on emotions for fuel. How do we incorporate it?? Unless the wizard preps for the spell, mucho drain!

Summoning is done the ol' fashioned way by knowing a Name (names are waaay important in Dresden Universe) and making a circle. In some cases it includes a bribery.
Remember Toot Toot? And Chancy?? And that frogdemon Tharlkazzz something or other? Inside a circle and a pentagram.

By the way. How would you classify Nickelheads? Mab, Maeve, Aurora, Titania, Leananshidhe??

Yeah, I like Dresden Files. grinbig.gif
BlueMax
From what they had on the website, I think the Dresden RPG actually does a good job of capturing the world.
Dresden kinda reminds me of a spike mage, if such a thing existed.

I love that Butcher thanks a game group at the front of one of the books.

BlueMax
Ravor
Sure, but I also remember the times when he used ritual magic "quick and dirty" so both ways need to be possible, perhaps allow extra sucesses on the ritual test to count towards drain and range.

I think I'd disagree about spell formula, for the most part Dresdin uses a few spells over and over again and I remember him being forced to use ones that he already "worked out" as opposed to ones that he would like to have done, perhaps allow "freeform" casting by spending Edge and making a really tough Arcana Test.

Yeah, have summoning use the Free Spirit rules, seems like a perfect fit with the Fairies simply being really powerful Spirits.
Ravor
As for the emotions fueling magic, have all background counts be automatically aspected towards certain kinds of magic and then have background counts be very, very common.


Then the entire "home theshold" is simply treated as an unaspected background count that only applies if you're not invited.
BlueMax
QUOTE (Ravor @ Nov 7 2009, 09:24 AM) *
As for the emotions fueling magic, have all background counts be automatically aspected towards certain kinds of magic and then have background counts be very, very common.


Then the entire "home theshold" is simply treated as an unaspected background count that only applies if you're not invited.

I don't think one who need to do anything for emotion , belief, and stubbornness fueling magic in Shadowrun. I thought thats how its been since the start.

BlueMax
Bitten the Bug
QUOTE (BlueMax @ Nov 7 2009, 05:17 PM) *
From what they had on the website, I think the Dresden RPG actually does a good job of capturing the world.
Dresden kinda reminds me of a spike mage, if such a thing existed.

I love that Butcher thanks a game group at the front of one of the books.

BlueMax

Ohhh, and christmas isn't far off either. Domo arigato, omae.
Sixgun_Sage
Some great suggestions, probably gonna tweak them, the big powers like Mab or the Denarians (I just got done rereading Death Masks for the 10th time) I was going to only handle if it became an issue (was going to run this game as the party being a team of new-minted Wardens, still inexperienced and nowhere near their full strength) but likely as Force 15+ spirits of various flavors. Keep'em coming, when I'm done I WILL be posting the finished results.
And an official Dresden RPG? Link PLEASE!
PBTHHHHT
Urrr. sixgun, just do a quick google with dresden files and rpg... and voila!
http://www.dresdenfilesrpg.com/
Jhaiisiin
What I'm jonesing for is an Alera RPG myself. For those who don't know, it's the other series by Jim Butcher. If you like the Dresden files, Alera will blow you away IMO.
Embers
QUOTE (Jhaiisiin @ Nov 7 2009, 10:42 PM) *
What I'm jonesing for is an Alera RPG myself. For those who don't know, it's the other series by Jim Butcher. If you like the Dresden files, Alera will blow you away IMO.


Its a great series, but it wouldn't necessarily be enjoyed by the same group of people. Butcher wrote the series on a bet, he had to combine two extremely unalike things and write a book about them. He ended up with Pokemon and a lost Roman Legion. The Alerans (Romans) are able to summon and channel the powers of elementals known as Furies (Earth, Fire, Water, Air, Metal, Wood) each fury can manifest physically to fight, but can also enhance their owners in certain ways based on type. Air furies can help their owners fly, move faster, and bend light. Earth Furies give super strength, Fire furies can do the pyrotechnic thing, but also allow their owners to enflame emotions. Metal furies make their owners tougher, tough enough to ignore injury, to march for days without fatigue, and to sharpen metal to cut through just about anything. Wood furies make their owners insanely good archers able to control their arrows in flight, wield much stronger bows, and become invisible while near plants. Water does healing, emotion reading, and using water to scry and speak through.
Jhaiisiin
And despite the two vastly different topics, he combined them to create pure gold. smile.gif I wholly recommend it.
BlueMax
QUOTE (Jhaiisiin @ Nov 7 2009, 07:42 PM) *
What I'm jonesing for is an Alera RPG myself. For those who don't know, it's the other series by Jim Butcher. If you like the Dresden files, Alera will blow you away IMO.

I couldnt get into Alera. It felt like a reverse Dresden, dude without instead of with magic. I didn't even finish the first novel.

May get back into it as I am plum out of Dresden to read, until May that is.


BlueMax
Jhaiisiin
Trust me when I say finish the series. It is so worth it. Tavi is a badass.
Bitten the Bug
QUOTE (Jhaiisiin @ Nov 8 2009, 07:11 AM) *
Trust me when I say finish the series. It is so worth it. Tavi is a badass.

Totally BadAss!! It keeps gaining momentum and keeps getting better. Great stories!

I thought that those who had waterfuries also did the raise tempers or soothe them as well. Not to mention shapechange (within human range) etc. I'd sure like to have a waterfury and an earthfury! Nice!

Wood and earth furies also make you insanely good as trackers or hide tracks!
Shinobi Killfist
QUOTE (Jhaiisiin @ Nov 8 2009, 02:11 AM) *
Trust me when I say finish the series. It is so worth it. Tavi is a badass.


I read the first book and was unimpressed.

It was a dude without magic in a world of really dumb magicians.

The premise seems to be that they rely on magic so much the basics of reality escape them.

A totally made up example, but this is what it felt like to me.

Every Mage "Whoo, we defeated these 3 criminals but how will we restrain them until someone can come to pick them up."

Tavi, "I got a rope here, we could tie them up."

Every mage, "What is this rope thing you speak of, and how could we tie them up as you say."


Dresden files a lot more entertaining to me.
Jhaiisiin
To each their own. But think of it this way. When you use and have access to a tool every single day of your life, learning to live *without* it is almost unthinkable. Imagine not having a computer now. How much would you have to stop and think about because of the lack of that tool?

Same concept in Alera.
Ravor
I disagree, just because you have a hammer doesn't mean that every problem is a nail or that you should start treating them as such.
AngelisStorm
Dresden and Alera are vastly different stories.

Dresden is a detective psudo-noir, about the supernatural in the 'real world.' Also the classic "the world is getting darker, but some people choose to make a stand," together with the "but no one ends up unstained..." themes. (See: the "Word & Void" series by Terry Brooks and the "Dark is Rising." Also see some similarities in Neil Gaiman.)

Alera is the classic story of the magic-less individual who grows up in a magical world, (Many books, from one of the "Enchanted Forest Chronicles" to Diskworld; obvious theme of having a disability) with some interesting spins. The main character gets to evolve over time, which ups the "power level" and keeps things changing for interest. The citizens of the world are not very innovative outside their chosen "science" (Furries/Magic), but it has worked for the entire span of their civilization, so why innovate? Is it right? Not really (they look down on people who try new ways of doing things), but I find it fairly realistic. If you develop a "science" which has always worked for all needs (from war to common life), why would you develop something else?

And with regards to "stupid wizards," look at people today. Practically everyone in a 1st world country has access to science/education, but are they smart? No. They can't even change thier own oil half the time. If you gave everyone super powers, would they feel the need to push themselves? Of course not. So I find the characters in the Alera series (relatively) realistic.

Anyway, the series are very different, but I enjoy them both. Both Dresden and Tavi are innovators, who work outside the established system, working with what they got. (Hell, Dresden has it rough in some ways. He isn't good at "down and dirty" magic, but has immense strength/stamina. What a wierd combo.)
BlueMax
Dresden has "Sticktoitedness" Dag nabit. And how did he get that? Working on a farm underneath the best Rod Damned Assassin on the planet.


Err , by working for "A simply farmer".

And I think he gets some of his power by not getting laid. I am married and I get some more often than Dresden. What's up with that?

But any talk about Dresden must also include the wonderful cast of characters that make a Dresden novel. Some of which have been stolen into my campaign.

"You have a coroner buddy and you don't have *anything* to describe him?.... No, no, that's fine, I got this."

We thought about including Micheal but it didn't fit. Murphy on the other hand is a character that I want to play and someday when I get to play instead of run, Murphy here I come.

BlueMax
Sixgun_Sage
Bob the skull has made a number of appearances in my shadowrun games, which is fun because the players never know wether it will be "evil servant of a necromancer" Bob, or his more normal personality.
Jhaiisiin
Butters made it into our Mage game one time, as did Michael and the Knights. I totally agree that the cast of supporting characters in Dresden are just amazing.
Creel
Jim butcher's a gamer, I trust him to have made what he feels is the best system for the job.
BlueMax
QUOTE (Creel @ Nov 9 2009, 01:02 PM) *
Jim butcher's a gamer, I trust him to have made what he feels is the best system for the job.

He is indeed a gamer but he left the game design to others. With three series on his plate, I don't think he has time to review the RPG material. That said, what I have read has been interesting and I will certainly buy the game.

Besides, the money in Novels is much much much much better from what I read.

BlueMax
Jhaiisiin
Three series? I count 2... What am I missing out on?
BlueMax
QUOTE (Jhaiisiin @ Nov 9 2009, 02:00 PM) *
Three series? I count 2... What am I missing out on?


Sorry that I cannot remember the coded references he gave. While cruising interviews of Jim on Youtube my wife found one where he talked about rotating what he writes and getting in an out of character. During the interview he talked about "another work".

BlueMax
Embers
Well, the final book of the Codex Alera series is coming out this month, and has been done for awhile. After he finishes Changes (Dresden Files) I'd assume he will work on a new series since he likes to alternate books to keep things fresh for him.
Jhaiisiin
Yeah. If he does pop out a new series, I'll definitely read it. He's a hell of a writer.
Sixgun_Sage
QUOTE (Jhaiisiin @ Nov 9 2009, 06:02 PM) *
Yeah. If he does pop out a new series, I'll definitely read it. He's a hell of a writer.


You win the "Understatement of the Week" award.
Creel
No he's not, but he's a great storyteller.
AngelisStorm
QUOTE (Creel @ Nov 10 2009, 06:16 PM) *
No he's not, but he's a great storyteller.


Care to clarify?
Ravor
Well my opinion is that his actual writing skills is average at best, but the stories that he tells are great enough that they transend his writing and stand on their own feet.
Creel
QUOTE (Ravor @ Nov 10 2009, 10:32 PM) *
Well my opinion is that his actual writing skills is average at best, but the stories that he tells are great enough that they transend his writing and stand on their own feet.


This. Apologies, I was on my blackberry, and it encourages brevity.

He's not a great writer. His stories are pretty one dimensional and predictable. He's ham-handed with the foreshadowing, and his characters aren't very fully developed.

He is, however, witty and clever and he doesn't take himself too seriously. He's a lot of fun to read.
Jhaiisiin
QUOTE (Creel @ Nov 11 2009, 09:29 AM) *
This. Apologies, I was on my blackberry, and it encourages brevity.

He's not a great writer. His stories are pretty one dimensional and predictable. He's ham-handed with the foreshadowing, and his characters aren't very fully developed.

Wow. I suddenly feel like a stupid reader.
BlueMax
Creel,
Read about the Dresden files. The books are meant to be everything you described. Seriously. Read the story of the first book. Though I applaud anyone who can force themselves to read books they detest.

Oh, and if anyone wants great stories in literature, see Patrick O'Brian.

BlueMax
Creel
QUOTE (BlueMax @ Nov 11 2009, 02:21 PM) *
Creel,
Read about the Dresden files. The books are meant to be everything you described. Seriously. Read the story of the first book. Though I applaud anyone who can force themselves to read books they detest.

Oh, and if anyone wants great stories in literature, see Patrick O'Brian.

BlueMax


Actually, I love his books. I've read them all including the 5 chapter preview of "First Lord's Fury". I'm aware that they're intended to be cheesy, that's what I meant when I said "he doesn't take himself too seriously". If he were trying to be Victor Hugo and failing miserably it'd be pretty sad, but he's not. He's telling fun stories in a way that is accessible to many readers and there's nothing wrong with that, but it's a far cry from being a "great writer".

on the subject of reading books you detest...I've been trying to convince myself that I need to read the twilight series just so that I can work up a good rant. I'm thinking I'll tie it in with pro-life rhetoric...something along the lines of "if Stephenie Meyer's mother believed in abortion this never would have happened and the world would be a better place".


Jhaiisiin, there's no such thing as a stupid reader. Stupid people don't read, if you do you've a leg up on the competition.
Sixgun_Sage
I honestly don't get the idea of claiming Butcher is ham handed in his writing, I often find things in his stories that I didn't anticipate that, while not integral to the story make me take a differant view of the characters. I think the only way to call his characters one dimensional is to ignore the reasons for their actions and just take everything at face value as individual incidents.
PBI
I like Butcher's writing style, and I like his characters and his stories.

That being said, it's possible to tell good stories and write badly. Tolkien is the classic example; his story is pretty good, but his writing is average at best.
Bitten the Bug
QUOTE (BlueMax @ Nov 9 2009, 05:52 PM) *
We thought about including Micheal but it didn't fit. Murphy on the other hand is a character that I want to play and someday when I get to play instead of run, Murphy here I come.

BlueMax

I'd prefer to play Lara Raith or Thomas or Elaine. Murph is just too driven.
Snow_Fox
butcher's characters a pretty direct but the dialogue works really well.
for a game, he's a street mage but with a fairly high level of initiation. he's been said to be one of the most powerful wizards of his generation but he lacks subtlety. He rtates very high on summoning and ritua magic. It is hard, he spend months setting up little Chicago.

Well that's my take butwe can spend mucho server space on it, What would need more development is the never-ever, the fact he can enter astral space with companionsand exit it elsewhere in the world with all his toys.
BlueMax
QUOTE (Snow_Fox @ Nov 15 2009, 07:42 PM) *
butcher's characters a pretty direct but the dialogue works really well.
for a game, he's a street mage but with a fairly high level of initiation. he's been said to be one of the most powerful wizards of his generation but he lacks subtlety. He rtates very high on summoning and ritua magic. It is hard, he spend months setting up little Chicago.

Well that's my take butwe can spend mucho server space on it, What would need more development is the never-ever, the fact he can enter astral space with companionsand exit it elsewhere in the world with all his toys.



I think you are describing Dresden about book 7. He progresses rapidly , in what comes across as a "Level per book"

BlueMax
Sixgun_Sage
QUOTE (BlueMax @ Nov 16 2009, 02:47 AM) *
I think you are describing Dresden about book 7. He progresses rapidly , in what comes across as a "Level per book"

BlueMax


Which, when you consider the things he has to deal with on a fairly regular basis, doesn't seem all that unreasonable.
BlueMax
QUOTE (Sixgun_Sage @ Nov 16 2009, 09:59 AM) *
Which, when you consider the things he has to deal with on a fairly regular basis, doesn't seem all that unreasonable.

I agree. Its very interesting to see things fall out just like a game.

New familiar.
New magic items
new powers.


BlueMax
/new demon resident...
tete
QUOTE (Sixgun_Sage @ Nov 7 2009, 04:05 PM) *
I'm a huge fan of Jim Butcher's novels of chicago wizard Harry Dresden, and for a long time have wanted to play in that setting, looking over the rules it seems to me the closest I'll come to it is an adaptation of SR4. I've got some ideas on how to do this (your magic attribute is also your rating for the Gremlins quality) but would like to hear suggestions from any fellow fans of those novels here on Dumpshock.


I would go with either the Dresden Files RPG or nMage with a couple tweeks. Heck even oMage... I think if your not going to use the actual Dresden Files RPG, nWOD is a great toolkit to build the world.
Sixgun_Sage
QUOTE (tete @ Nov 16 2009, 05:44 PM) *
I would go with either the Dresden Files RPG or nMage with a couple tweeks. Heck even oMage... I think if your not going to use the actual Dresden Files RPG, nWOD is a great toolkit to build the world.



That was my original assumption but honestly, my experience with my group is that there is so much in the WOD, new or original that is poorly defined or left intentionally open to interpretation that unless I run a straight-up Vampire game I spend half the night explaining my rulings.
Ravor
And that is different from Fourth Edition in what way?

*EDIT*

Especially since you are going to have to make abunch of houserulings in order to get the "right feel".
Sixgun_Sage
QUOTE (Ravor @ Nov 17 2009, 11:38 AM) *
And that is different from Fourth Edition in what way?

*EDIT*

Especially since you are going to have to make abunch of houserulings in order to get the "right feel".



Oh, I admit thats the case, I just looked at the game systems on my shelf and figured which one would take the least amount of work compared to the others, Shadowrun got the nod.
Ravor
Too each their own, personally I would have figured that nWOD would have since you've already got support for most of the critters and powers. Still, there isn't a whole lot of difference between the two rulesets.
Sixgun_Sage
To be honest the new WOD isn't exactly something I'm a fan of, I don't use it because most of the changes I saw when going over it where either quicky name changes or total reworking of the rules I actually liked. The same could be said of SR4 but alot of the changes in there I actually like.
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