I mostly lurk here, but I am about to play in a SR4A game and am playing a Demolitionist. I looked at the Explosive rules and they seem kind of weak, for instance my character is an ork with standered body of 4, he can set off a stick of dynamite in his hand (damage is rating 2 x sqrt of .25 = 1) and buy the hits to be perfectly ok, even before factoring in any armor?
do i have the rules right?
Also, I only have the SR4 book at hand so if they changed it i am not aware of it
Full Version: Quick Question
Two things.
First, IIRC, buying hits is an optional rule. So it only applies if the GM allows it.
Second, you can only "buy hits" in non-stressful situations, when you can take as much time as you like to do the task at hand. I would not qualify setting off dynamite that you are holding as "non-stressful", no matter how the rules shake out in your favor.
Third, Shadowrun explosives have always been a tad weak. I had a player in 2nd edition who wanted to play a Troll that wore C12 strapped to his body and would act as a human bomb, because his body was maxxed out and he was abusing the armor layering rules to the point where he was nearly invulnerable. It's a side effect of trying to balance the game, unfortunately.
Fourth, don't use dynamite in Shadowrun. Always use grenades or C12. They pack a lot more punch.
Fifth... Ok, cracked SR4A. The base rating of Commercial Explosives is 3. You're factoring in a 1/4 of a kg of Dyanamite. I have no idea how much dynamite that translates into, but by Shadowrun terms, you're using only 1/4 of the normal minimum amount. So not much of a bang, for starters.
However, when you use explosives, you make a Demolitions plus Logic test, and add the number of hits to the DV. Might be an instance when you don't want to roll high! Plus, there's a couple ways I'd tackle someone being a smartass in my game and doing a stunt like this. One's by the book, and one's a bit of common sense.
The Common Sense way is simple. You're holding the dynamite and this was your intent. As such, I'd rule that all your dice automatically succeed. Which means you could be adding a LOT of DV to that one simple explosive.
The BTB way involves a bit of math, and lots of modifiers. Called Shot (+4 DV, or bypassing armor). Since you're not defending or trying to move away from it, maybe the attacker Prone Modifier (+3 Dice for the attack roll).
And then there's always the Chunky Salsa rules. Since the explosive power is so weak vs your Body rating, it's fair to say that the explosion isn't going to initially blow through the hand. Especially if you can resist the damage so easily. So unless you're delicately holding the Dynamite in the palm of you open hand, I could also rule the explosion rebounds. And rebounds. And rebounds. Sure, it loses -2 DV after it travels a meter, but you're closed hand is only a couple centimeters. I'd say it could easily rebound a couple dozen times, increasing the power each time.
The latter are all kinda dick moves, so I'm unlikely to ever use them, but... They all show ways that even a small amount of Dynamite can do a bit of damage. And in the amounts you're talking, sounds more like a Firecracker than a real explosive anyways. And I've had one of them go off in my hands. Stung like a bitch, my hand swelled a bit, and I lost some feeling in my fingers for a couple hours, but no real damage done.
Bull
First, IIRC, buying hits is an optional rule. So it only applies if the GM allows it.
Second, you can only "buy hits" in non-stressful situations, when you can take as much time as you like to do the task at hand. I would not qualify setting off dynamite that you are holding as "non-stressful", no matter how the rules shake out in your favor.
Third, Shadowrun explosives have always been a tad weak. I had a player in 2nd edition who wanted to play a Troll that wore C12 strapped to his body and would act as a human bomb, because his body was maxxed out and he was abusing the armor layering rules to the point where he was nearly invulnerable. It's a side effect of trying to balance the game, unfortunately.
Fourth, don't use dynamite in Shadowrun. Always use grenades or C12. They pack a lot more punch.
Fifth... Ok, cracked SR4A. The base rating of Commercial Explosives is 3. You're factoring in a 1/4 of a kg of Dyanamite. I have no idea how much dynamite that translates into, but by Shadowrun terms, you're using only 1/4 of the normal minimum amount. So not much of a bang, for starters.
However, when you use explosives, you make a Demolitions plus Logic test, and add the number of hits to the DV. Might be an instance when you don't want to roll high! Plus, there's a couple ways I'd tackle someone being a smartass in my game and doing a stunt like this. One's by the book, and one's a bit of common sense.
The Common Sense way is simple. You're holding the dynamite and this was your intent. As such, I'd rule that all your dice automatically succeed. Which means you could be adding a LOT of DV to that one simple explosive.
The BTB way involves a bit of math, and lots of modifiers. Called Shot (+4 DV, or bypassing armor). Since you're not defending or trying to move away from it, maybe the attacker Prone Modifier (+3 Dice for the attack roll).
And then there's always the Chunky Salsa rules. Since the explosive power is so weak vs your Body rating, it's fair to say that the explosion isn't going to initially blow through the hand. Especially if you can resist the damage so easily. So unless you're delicately holding the Dynamite in the palm of you open hand, I could also rule the explosion rebounds. And rebounds. And rebounds. Sure, it loses -2 DV after it travels a meter, but you're closed hand is only a couple centimeters. I'd say it could easily rebound a couple dozen times, increasing the power each time.
The latter are all kinda dick moves, so I'm unlikely to ever use them, but... They all show ways that even a small amount of Dynamite can do a bit of damage. And in the amounts you're talking, sounds more like a Firecracker than a real explosive anyways. And I've had one of them go off in my hands. Stung like a bitch, my hand swelled a bit, and I lost some feeling in my fingers for a couple hours, but no real damage done.
Bull
I got the .25 a kg from the fact that it says that 1 kg of dynamite comes in 4 sticks. I have Demo at 6 and logic 4, so averaging 3 hits makes it damage 4p, a fair bit better. Thanks for the reply I going to bring it up with the GM and see what he has to say about reworking the Explosive damage, any thoughts on that?
QUOTE (Angry Ork @ Nov 11 2009, 03:29 AM) 
I got the .25 a kg from the fact that it says that 1 kg of dynamite comes in 4 sticks. I have Demo at 6 and logic 4, so averaging 3 hits makes it damage 4p, a fair bit better. Thanks for the reply I going to bring it up with the GM and see what he has to say about reworking the Explosive damage, any thoughts on that?
Ahh, I don't have the old SR4 handy, and SR4A doesn't even talk about Dynamite. It's just Commercial Explosives (Rating 3), Foam and Plastic Explosives (Ratings 4-15).
As for tweaking the explosive damage rules, I'm not sure really. Commercial Explosives seem pretty useless to me, as looking at the Barrier rules, they're not taking out anything bigger than glass, wood, and plaster without a lot of luck and skill.
I guess the question is, what exactly are you looking to do? Take down buildings, or throw bombs at people?
If it's the former, just ignore Commercial Explosives, and go for the compounds. Better DV. Also, talk to your GM, and see if he'll let you use Knowledge Skills as supplemental skills. Roll Architecture first, and add any successes as bonus dice to the demolition test (But it requires you to study the target in detail for several minutes). This will help net you an extra success or two, hopefully.
If it's the latter, just stick with grenades. Better boom, designed for range, and a little easier on the Availabilities.
If you wanna split the difference, just combine the two
Bull
Actually doing even vaguely accurate explosives is really complex. For example, even a little distance can dramatically reduce the damage (One of the reason why the military prohibits storage directly on the floor of igloos is that the 4 inches that a pallet lifts explosives greatly limits the damage to the concrete floor).
The SR explosives rules really break at the high end, the linear dropoff from car/truck bombs results in a totally crazy damage radius.
The SR explosives rules really break at the high end, the linear dropoff from car/truck bombs results in a totally crazy damage radius.
The Dynamite is actualy in Aresnal, probably should have mentioned that sooner, and I did take the knowledge skill Engineering, ill talk to the GM see if t hat works, as well as a Datasoft about demolitions. thanks for the sugestions. as for anywhere near accurate explosives rules both me and the GM are a bit science oriented so the math doesnt matter to much, as for the blast thing, I didnt know that, I might be able to talk to the GM into a comprimise about reducing the blast area, but increaseing th DV
*EDIT* I was thinking, what are people's thought on DV= (rating x kg used)/distance in deci-meters so if i hold a thing of dynamite in my hand, its only a mm or so away, meaning the blast is 10 times as powerful as if it were dropped onto the ground in front of me
*EDIT* I was thinking, what are people's thought on DV= (rating x kg used)/distance in deci-meters so if i hold a thing of dynamite in my hand, its only a mm or so away, meaning the blast is 10 times as powerful as if it were dropped onto the ground in front of me
Just a note... Commercial Explosives work pretty well in Shadowrun... it does not take a lot of weight to create a fairly powerful explosion that will damage most buildings... of course, the higher grade of explosives means you need even less, but htat is really academic... ever seen a Fertilizer bomb go off... it is quite impressive... 150 lbs of fertilizer is not a lot of volume...
not to mention just a few kilograms of C4...
Keep the Faith
not to mention just a few kilograms of C4...
Keep the Faith
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