@Lindt:

If you give me a roll-up on the "Iron Tower" thing I can roll it in to the 405s description; or you can add it in yourself (or do nothing). I have no idea where you're coming from with it right now, tho.

@Lindt, Fool:
I love yall's takes on the SSR-SD-405 thing, but some inconsistencies in the takes. Don't know if yall want to keep them that way or not (inconsistencies are incredibly realistic in this sort of thing). 1. Fool seems to suggest Slicks was beaten down, but I got the implication of not-necessarily-killed. Child says 'Sticks' [sic] was killed. 2. Some typos and stuff.

I like the idea of Child thinking that Fool is dead. Awesome.

It was just a fluff of how SSR came into having turf. I mention it in Childs view of the 405's, and its REALLY not important at all. Old gang that lost its ground gets absorbed by another one. Must happen all the time.

I wrote a few of those on purpose. 2 people see and hear 2 different things. Though the Slicks/Sticks thing was my bad.

If there are any glaring time line issues (because it IS 2am here) go ahead and fix them, or tell me and Ill fix them, or what ever. The big thing was that SSR actually invaded some pretty reasonable turf before people took notice, had an 'o shit' moment, and then where ambushed and whipped out after a few days of nothing happening.

And before I start going at it there are two things I want to know: are any of the locales maps currently under development, and do you mind images with textures and images of objects instead of a rough shape with a label?

Not that there is anything wrong with that but I've been wanting to get my maptools on and this seems like the perfect opportunity to make up some locations for a gurps post-apocalyptic game I'm cooking up. And if there is no concrete address do you mind if I just put it somewhere?

@ All (mostly OPCG PC's however)

Does anyone want to take a stab at deciding approx. WHEN the battle with Raider Nation and the UV Nights takes place and the Hammerpack is wiped out? Or am I just being retarded and all the last battles basically take place simultaneously and end roughly in the hour before the game starts (so prior to midnight?)

Also, does anyone in the OPCG feel like making a small "appearance" in some pre-game fiction.. like a quick one-shot maybe a few hours before the fight that wipes out the Hammerpack? *bats lashes* Anyone?

@Dire Radient: LOL LOL (Tootles is priceless!)

@Rob. Problem solved! Sticks and Slicks are two different people. Me and Lindt also described two different battles.

Somewhere along the lines those vignettes went from "Describe some of the battles that happened during the war from your characters perspective" to "Describe what your character was doing in the final hours of red october leading up to the start of the game."

@Lindt. Did you just make up a ganger buddy named Cerberus or did you get that name from my signature ? lol.

@Abbandon

Cerberus is, believe it or not, my inordinately creative name for the leader of the 405 hellhounds.

Oh hehe.

@Yoippari: I think I speak for everyone involved with the Locales when I say : Go Nuts! (Not literally mind you)

The Hammerpack was structured in standard lines, with a single operational change of command from Legion down to his trusted lieutenants and then to the rank and file gangers. Legion uses command by negation, that is, anything not specifically forbidden is allowed. This style emphasizes individual initiative and personal accountability rather than a slower top-down command structure.

Legion emphasizes a tactical mindset made up of speed, aggressive action, detailed planning, and surprise. This includes both ground and vehicle tactics and its hallmarks are lateral and three dimensional attacks, defense in depth, combined arms operations, and the use of asymmetrical tactics and weapons.

As for gang operations, the most evolved parasites ensure that enough resources are left for their host to survive. The same applies to the Hammerpack. We'll leave enough for the good people of our territory to survive, maybe with a little left over, and take the rest. If we're short, we'll poach on someone else's territory. And if they complain, we'll burn their headquarters down and beat them as they run out. Then we'll just annex whatever's left over.

Ok no making up locations. There are some that have definite locations though. Like the baker street theater. But what do you mean he is planning on dealing them out? He is gonna put makers on the googlemap for where they are or he's gonna ask certain people to make the maps?

I started thinking about it and really I should probably use the objects and textures I would use in maptools and just make it in gimp. There I would build them all separately where they could be put into maptools later if I wanted to. A sort of modular town. Actually given SR's dystopia quite a few buildings are probably unnervingly similar. At least when it comes to store fronts and coffin hotels.

Yoip, you have no idea how right you are. Especially if any number of them where build at the same time. Look at your typical residential development. Odds are there are between 3 and 5 different floor plans, making a lot of them 'unnervingly similar'.

@grendel: Okay you're the hefe Legion.

@All: Little help please, I found this beaut in an old TSS and have no fragging clue how to convert it to 4th edition.

Black Whistle Butterfly Knife
Conceal 3 / 4 *Reach -- Damage (Str + 2)L Weight .75KG Availability 7/65 days Cost 350Y Street Index 1.5
* represents conceal closed and then conceal when open.

I can see Vincente Bernanke (Knife maker) making these prolly as one of his morning chores. (Then again full fluff text indicates it's super sharp, so maybe not)

Also I would like to add the Cobra (a weapon from Neuromancer) to the game as well, but have no clue as to stats. If I remember correctly it was a folding steel baton. But it was flexible and had a heavy metal tip. Sap stats maybe? I dunno. Help!

Edit: Okaaaaayyyyy.... went looking for Cobra details and found links to a bunch of non cobra weapons. Is everone happy with current weapon pool or shall I attempt to bring in some of these nasty pieces of work?

Knife
Reach = 0
Damage = (Str/2)+1 P
AP = 0
Avail = ---
Cost = 20 Nuyen

@Konsaki: Oh Okay. The rest is just fluff then?

Pretty much.

Daily "Nature of Gang" Discussion Roundup

Some of the key debates have pretty much been decided, so I am adding some more topics.

Organization

We had some very excellent debate on this. I was goint to summarize it, but grendel showed up and provided some very welcome "final answers."

See his post above - but basically Legion --> a few LTs --> rank & file
You can do anything he doesn't forbid.

I assume this applies to both the OPCG and the NPCG.

Exploitaiton of Locals

Mostly see above - we had some great debate, and grendel laid out a "final answer" policy of measured exploitation with an eye to long-term sustainability.

Very interested in what the "don'ts" were just for in terms of fleshing out character background. Assume the future "don'ts" will be provided later.

Unless someone reopens them, I am closing these two topics for now.

HQ

Very interested in the Hammerpack's, just for history's sake. Any ideas. Seems like a great thing for someone to do up in the Locales section.

Communications

The UberGM has confirmed that Kingsgate is NOT a TOTAL dead zone. Things may be unreliable and spotty, though. We have some good ideas floating around on how to fix that.
I think it was rob that suggested that, dirt poor squatter or not, every gang member ought to have a commlink.
I agree with that strongly enough - if only for the sake of OOC efficiency - that I have already arranged with Konsaki to upgrade Grack's comm.

Do any people plan on NOT starting with commlinks (with decent Signal ratings)?

Guns

As noted earlier UberGM Winter weighed in on this one, so I probably won't include it again, unless a debate starts up.

NEW TOPICS

These are mostly backward-looking. Stuff some of us would really like in order to flesh out our characters, but that will have to be handled IC for the new gang.

Uniforms

Did we have one? I think they are kind of lame, personally. This very much goes into the "after school special" category if you ask me. And I always thought that old Warriors movie was silly, too.

Colors (symbol)

This, on the other hand, is probably a must. Gotta represent. Gotta clearly identify your affiliation in order to garner respect and enhance gang identity and cohesion.

What was the Hammerpack's colors/symbol? A certain tattoo? A certain color? An ARO?

Any preliminary thoughts on the new gang name/colors?????

Thanks for all the earlier comments in response to earlier topics. I think maintaining these discussions will really help us come up with a rich gang culture, and also build our team spirit OOC.

@Adamu, All:

Giving credit where credit was due, Shadow proposed that everyone had a commlink. I pointed out that in a spotty zone, the signal rating of the commlink becomes more important for keeping in touch with people outside of wireless tower coverage but within mutual commlink range.

Uniforms, Color, Symbol - I still like coming up with these IC.

And OPCG policies transitioned to NPCG - we'll also see how those work out. Some characters may have different ideas.

@rob - I pretty much agree on coming up with colors and all that IC for the next gang, but how about the Hammerpack? I mean, for OPCG players, we will still be flying Hammerpack colors, right?

That's why I want to hammer this out now (no pun intended), so I can figure out if I need to work something into my Appearance at game start, among other reasons.

@adam - word, cheers, missed that entirely... *tries to remove foot from mouth. fails.*

@rob
Not even a problem. Hell, it's precisely thanks to you that we have such a wealth of information on the other gangs in the area.

Well Im not Hammerpack but I will make some suggestions for colors/symbols.

#1. A vertical closed fist and section of arm over a half section of a rising sun. (Think of the Federated Suns from battletech hehe.)/colors = red fist, yellow sun. Or Any other likely combo's. Maybe a white fist, over an orange sun.

#2. A vertical closed fist and section of arm with a half section of spikey ring behind it./ colors = any

#3. A vertical closed fist and a section of armor with chain wrapped around the knuckles and winding down the arm./colors = any

#4. A close up shot of a sledge hammer and section of haft falling onto a Spike.
/colors = any

#5. Two sledge hammers criss-crossed behind a big skull in the center. The hamerheads would be at the top. /colors = any

#6. Maybe a picture of a hammerhead shark. I kinda like this as it implies you were a group of sharks which are predators./ colors = grey or grey/white

#7. A close up of a single sledge hammer being struck by lightning(thors hammer)./colors purple and white or blue and white.

If the colors arent specific to your logo then I dont really have any good idea's. Maybe white or black representing Legion's gang continual rebirth/death lol. Hey that inspires me..

#8. A grim reaper only instead of a scythe he as a sledge hammer. lol.

@Abbandon

Cool ideas, thanks for the input.
I especially like the Hammehead shark logo. Partly because it seems mean and badass, and partly because it has a distinctive silhouette and I think it could be rendered very simply.
Personally, I think the simpler the better for the symbol - lends itself better for homemade patches, tagging, etc.

Other thoughts on Hammerpack colors/symbol?

The shark could be cool in an AR environment...

Tootles is afraid. very afraid.

Guess who's back, back again, guess who's back, warn a friend.

On Uniforms:
Agreed, we are not (Insert favorite after school special gang) We are the real deal. Pot smoking drug trafficking, geek anyone who gets in our way, gang bangers ese. That being said the OPCG members may wish to consider a thematic style. Example the Disco boys from Mystery Men. They didn't all dress alike but they had a theme, disco. (Crappy theme if you ask me) So you all may want to decide on something similar. Legion's Viking thing might be a good stating point, maybe you all have some kind of Viking item, helmet, axe, jewelry, etc. (Up to you, I'm just making suggestions here)

On Colors and logos:
I like the shark personally. (But I'm NPCG so I don't count) What if you do a Street Shark version holding a hammer? When we reform the gang maybe we can keep part of the old Hammerpack sign. As for colors Ink can handle tats in whatever colors you guys figure out. Again what if we incorperate some of the old Hammerpack and dead gang colors?

On Predation Again (Sorry, but I had a thought after the topic was closed)
Since as grendel said we don't want to wreck these people totally, what if we do stuff for favors and goodies? Example, my cousin told me about a guy who did some custom work on a Hells Angel's Mustang. The total was 20K (Canadian). The HA guy gave him 10K cash and five favors to be called in at any time. So the regular guy was having some issues with another go-gang, he called up the HA dude, so the ganger and a buddy came in and stomped fifteen other dudes flat. The custom guy also owed the HA guy a favor, so Mr. Custom kept watch while the HA guy took a tire iron to a drug dealers head. (Now this is what we want to be like!)

On colors and logos...

OOC: I abso-freaking-lutely don't want a mascot. No anthropomorphic animals or phenomena holding anything. Or wearing anything. Or looking, in general, cartoonish. I am sorta fascinated with this idea of the hammerhead shark. But I'm in 100% agreement with whoever said it should be simple and iconic, something that can be tagged and tattooed and painted by amateurs (which is most everyone in the Hammerpack who's survived).

Check out a couple images. This and this.

Heh im glad everyone likes the shark idea to one degree or another.

I disagree that we need anyone beyond the first guy to make the logo. Most gangs only use their gang name initials to mark turf not full blown murals. And tattoo and t-shirt shops can scan an image and make stuff just fine.

Im heading to bed but i will try to find some pictures to when i wake up. The image i see in my mind has more of an arc to it like the shark is turning.

@Sparky: It was just a suggestion.... But I see your point, cartoonish anything implies that Hammerpack was not a serious contender. I like the iconic route (again I have no say, I'm just trying to stimulate debate). Maybe take the shape from your second pic and tighten the turn up a bit.

@yoiparri: ow!

@All: Brain flash! Hows about this
Lose the background, the star, replace the sickle with a shark, quick color swap and voila! Simple, iconic and of course easily recognizable! Heck I could do that with photo shop.... Wait I don't have Photo Shop, frag! (If the OPCG likes I can try and do a basic workup of my idea tommorrow) {I'll find an image suite somewhere}

Meriss. I suck with photoshop (gimp) but this is what I got out of it. Looking at it again the head looks a bit small but that can be touched up with the pencil if we decide to go with that design.

And every time I think my sheet is done I recalculate and find I'm one over or 3 under. Right now I'm at 3 under. That isn't enough for most ware though a muscle replacement would provide some usefulness in combat bumping my strength up to a odd number, it just isn't all that suitable for my character. If I can shave 2300 off my gear I could just add another active skill point.

@GMs
How much would a package of drugs that I may have escaped the carnage with be worth in inventory to later be sold? Something like 100 doses?

I have a couple other price check items too. Approx 2.5 liters gasoline split between 4 beer bottles with a lighter and a bunch of rags. And a micro torch (lighter).

@Yoip: The prices for drugs are listed in the house rules - contraband section. They may change immediately after game start.

And when in doubt, 3 point? 2500 nuyen + 1 specialization... Not like specializations have any penalties associated with them.

BTW, still have only half as many knowledge skills as you get free.

rob

Ugh. Went through pages of google images and only came up with 3 images.
first image
second image
third image

The last one i think is the best if you can isolate it. It has the body position almost exactly how i saw it. The middle link you have to scroll down a bit to see the hamerhead image.

All the sledge hammer images were just of the hammer or totaly unrelated so no help there unless you need a quick way to make the basic hammer shape.

On another note I dont think we should limit ourselves to "hardcore" gang images/names/colors. Our real reputation will be determined with our actions and how tough we ae in a fight, not what we call ourselves or what colors we wear. Especially in the future when everything is mega corporate and advertising is life. You just need a gimmick.

If your bursting at the seams about stuff for our NEW gang write it down elsewhere instead of going nuts hehehe.

@rob
ya, I'm still working on those knowledge skills. I never know what to pick. The problem with 2500 is what to spend it on. 2000 in drugs, and a little extra starting money? Except for expensive things like muscle aug/toner or digestive expansion I have all I really need.

As for drug prices since we are the dealers we have two prices. Cost and price. I'm assuming those are the street price per dose. If I buy it with bp at that cost that is fine, just curious if I could start with some fresh from the syndicate stuff.

@logo group
Here is that hammer head isolated and two toned for simplicity. The one I did above was Sparky's second image monochromed, warped, reversed, and set in place of the sickle.

@Yoiparri: You think you're bad at Photo Shop check this link
I'm worse. Some times I wish I had an artistic bone in my body.

lol thats pretty good Meriss. I think it really shows off the reality of our gang with your very well designed anerexic hammerhead shark hehehe.

@Abbandon: pbbbbbttt. But your right, I beefed it up a bit, heres the new one

Hammerpack colors are crimson and silver. The Hammerpack have crimson sashes hanging from the left hand side of their belts marked by silver chevrons. 5 chevrons for Legion, 4 for his lieutenants, 3 for section leaders, and the rest for the rank and file gangers based on seniority. Hammerpack symbols are fists holding crossed hammers in the same manner as the Egyptian Pharoahs held the crook and flail.

Discussion Roundup

Okay, basically the questions that were most pressing in my mind have either been answered or have not garnered any responses, so I am going to wrap up my "organized" approach to this stuff with the following post.

Outstanding topics were -

Hammerpack HQ

No response on this one. Since it is all about the past anyway, could just be that it is not that important. I'm cool, personally, since I doubt Grack ever showed up there if he didn't have to anyway.

Communications

The big question here was whether any players were starting without a commlink. No response, so I am thinking we will be in good shape to start on a personal level, and then it will just be an "in game" matter to get some dedicated repeaters set up around our turf, maybe.

Uniforms/Colors

We had some really great discussion on this one, which I think was really useful.

Most who contributed seemed to agree that uniforms are kind of lame.

But support for Abbandon's hammerhead shark idea seemed pretty much universal. There was some question about how elaborate or minimalist the representation would be. And we had some actual beginnings of graphics.

Fortunately, however, our leader grendel helped us out with a definitive answer on the symbol for the gang that he created (both OOC and IC). Check out the post just above this one.

Okay, for now I have nothing burning in my mind that won't be answered IC, or that I don't expect "final answers" exist for, but we just don't know them yet.

If there is any interest, I think it would be fun to brainstorm a running list of what we perceive our assets and liabilities as a gang are, accounting for both roster and environment.
If someone wants to start that up, I think it would be really useful, but me, I'm gonna take a few steps back for now.

Thanks again for all the great contributions to the discussion.

Hey guys (and gals ),
I've just finished moving to a new place, and got the net up and running. Unfortunately, cable isn't something that connected right now, so a little crappy dialup is all I can afford. Which means that my presence will be a little more spotty than it was before. I'll still try to make it on the boards AT LEAST once a day.

@ Konsaki

Quick CS change to Nevada.


Lemme know if she's still good to go.

On Communications:
Kay I worked the numbers (Which I hate BTW, I hope you appreciate my sacrafice)The current average Signal for the NPCG is 3, which means we're in a pretty good position link wise. So we should be Ok. DireRadient can Tootles handle encrypting a comm net?

On HQ:
adamu I agree and disagree with you. I agree that the Pre-War HQ is prolly not as Important as Post-War HQ. I disagree that it is completey unimportant. It is very important to those of us who are joining the Hammerpack to form the NPCG. It gives us a specific location to head for after the war.

On uniforms/Colors:
Thanks for your input grendel. It helps out alot.

On chargen:
I know it's none of my biz but I noticed some folks don't have gear posted to the wiki. If you need help getting it on the wiki, PM me and I'll help as best I can. (I don't want to add to the Wiki staff's workload, and I have the time)

@Mister_Juan: Hoiya chummer!

So we've got Jaya, Child and Doc waiting on approval with a "ready" on the Wiki.

That leaves Badmarsh, Legion, Ghost and Trojan to be completed and "X'ed" on the Chargen page on the wiki (under Mechanics)

Along the lines of Meriss and Unarmed, what more can we do to get you guys finished up so that we can get this thing cooking?

@ Meriss - Box can encrypt a comm net.

@ Adamu, all
As I'm piecing together memories of the various character types, we have the following:

Felix - mage
Grack + Thumper + Jaya + Fool + Ghost + - straight up, beat down
Ink - tats
Tootles - comms + ADVENTURES!!!!!!!
'Marsh + Nevada + little bit of Fool - cons
Soho - beat down + stealin'
Child - cars + medic
Doc - beat ups and drugs
Trojan - drugs and makin' stuff
Box - little bit of all but bossin', tats and magic
Legion - bossman + beatdown

Brief summary. Note that I didn't actually look back at anyone, so forgive if I've got the focus wrong or the extra capabilities wrong for your character.

Lots of capabilities and sideline markets. Plenty of room for makin' bank.

Grendel emailed me his character sheet which I forwarded to Konsaki, and will be working on putting it up on the wiki this week.