Concealable holsters are really all about location. They're meant to be worn in the small of the back, the ankle, under the arm, etc. All places where even a little bit more size would make it difficult to store a SMG.

Conceal is stupid in the first place, though. A Predator 3 is of equal or less conceal than all but 1 SMG.

Agreed.

I allow quick-draw concealable harnesses for most SMGs in my games (not to mention knives and anything else that can believably be concealed), but by the rules it's a no-no.

You're half right, tjn. Longer healing periods still rounds up, the other one now rounds down. I was misremembering the errata and thought it changed both, but it only changes the one (toxins, etc, are now increased by 1 point per 2 full points of bioware).

Well that sucks... penalties should be uniform from a design standpoint.

But, according to the errata... does this mean now only diseases get their TN's upped?...

Some notes that depend on GMs:

Although not explicitly mentioned a character with a suprathyroid gland would starve to death faster- M&M says it doubles the amount of food needed. There's also the drawback about lowering Signature and being more visible to thermographic sensors/vision.

Tailored Pheromones can't be turned off, so a character with one would be easier to track by scent.

And the often over looked Clean Metabolism; couldn't hurt for a face archetype to take it, and you never know when you'll have to drink your own urine. It would require house rule/interpretation, but since the bioware "more efficiently digests food and drink," a character with it should go a little longer before suffering from malnutrition/starvation.

Clean Metabolism gives a sizable bonus against pheromone detectors. It's a "must have" for any competent cat burglar.

I'm trying to make a decision on some things so that I can move forward in the char gen process but I'm having trouble undestanding a few things .. or I am confused by a few things, I should say. I know you can guys can help to clear it up for me.

1.)The only thing I found that resembled a western duster was the 'LINED COAT' found on p.284 SR3. It says Conceal is 8, Balistic is 4 and Impact is 2 and it also makes mention that anything hidden under the coat adds +50% to the concealability of that item. What is the Conceal 8 for on this Lined Coat? what does that mean? I'm concealing the coat, I'm wearing it ... so what is that conceal number for?

2.)Also on p. 284 SR3, It says Armor Clothing has a Conceal of 10, Balistic of 3 and Impact of 0. Again with the conceal number and ... what does this entail? It is kind of vague and generalized.

3.)I was thinking of Tex going with the ARMANTE- Dallas Line of clothing, because it sounds more western and fits the image I have for Tex. The Cross-buttoned shirt, vest and slacks .. but I also wanted him to have an armored vest (kinda like you see a bull-rider wear in rodeos), which vest should I go with? I guess the main thing is, I just don't know how to read the ratings of clothes and armor.


This is what I am thinking about going with for starters.

WEAPONS:
I still need to accessorize them

One Cougar Fineblad Knife (shortblade) sheathed in his right boot.
(speaking of boots, I've seen no mention of footwear at all, i.e. combat boots, cowboy boots ... etc)
[Conceal: 12] Damage: (STR)M] [Weight: .5] [Cost: 800] [S.Index: 3]

One Ares Viper Slivergun <NOT Silvergun > (in a concealable/(QD?) holster at the small of his back)
[Conceal: 11] [Damage: 9S(f)] [Weight: 2] [Cost: 600] [RC: -] [S.Index: 1]

One Defiance Super Shock (in a concealable/QD holster on his left forearm) [Conceal: 8] [Damage: 10S Stun] [Weight: 3] [Cost: 1,000] [RC: -] [S.Index: 1]

Two Savalette Guardians (in concealable/QD holsters, one at either hip)
[Conceal:9] [Damage:9M] [Weight:3.25/ea] [Cost:900/ea] [RC:1] [S.Index:2.5]

One Franchi SPAS-22 Shotgun (when carried - on a sling, swings under right arm)
[Conceal:3(6)] [Damage:10S] [Weight:4] [Cost:1,000] [RC:1] [S.Index:2]


BIOWARE

Enhanced Articulation [Bio Index: .6] [Cost: 40,000] [St. Index:1.5]
Muscle Toner - 3 [Bio Index: 1.2] [Cost: 75,000] [St. Index: .9]
Platelet Factories [Bio Index: .4] [Cost: 30,000] [St. Index:1.5]
Nictitating Membranes [Bio Index: .1] [Cost: 8,000] [St. Index: 1]

That gives me a total Bio Index of 2.3 (that's not good, is it?) and costs of 153,000 in Bioware alone. Is this a bad setup on Bioware?

I haven't gotten to Cyberware yet.

Input?

Thanks,
"Big Mo"

The concealability tells you how hard it is to know that the coat is actually an armoured coat. Personally, I'd prefer the Securetech Long Coat, since it adds to concealability of weapons and has a higher concealability by itself.

JaronK

yeah, I noticed that as well, but I want him to have a western style duster. The securetech long coat doesn't look that way, does it? Oh ... on a different note. I have a few more questions.

What is Dikote? I keep seeing that word a lot and don't know what it is.

What is IIRC? Where can I see what these guns look like? The guns on the raygun site I was linked to earlier in this thread don't list many of the guns I've considered equiping Tex with.

Thanks
"Big Mo"

The long coats are pretty generic. You can probably assume the stats work for several styles of long coats, including dusters. At least, that's how I've always looked at it.

[edit]
some additions...

The conceal on armor and armored clothing is for people to notice that you're wearing armor, like JaronK said.

I don't think you need to worry so much about the clothes and how they look. Think of them as general templates and you can get them tailored how you want. So you can get an Armored Vest that fits the Western Cowboy/Rodeo theme just as easily as one to fit the Urban Commando theme.

Dikote is a process of "diamond coating" surfaces. It's covered in M&M I believe and allows things to be harder, melee weapons to do more damage, etc. As a starting character I wouldn't worry about it.

Oh, and for pictures, you might try to find an old copy of Street Samurai Catalog. There's a bunch of pictures for stuff in there. Maybe someone else's website has some scans up and they can post a link...

I realize that's not very helpful though. Unfortunately the newer books have a lack of pictures of gear.

Only applies if you're still choosing human for race:

Unless there's a reason this character has no cyberware, you're missing some things. Smartlink being one (important!), and cybereyes being another. Cybereyes are incompatible with nictating membranes if you decide to use them. You're also missing any kind of reflex increase. If the character had some kind of natural vision "modes" I could understand wanting to keep them since cyberware versions are (strangely) not as good [pg. 49 M&M visibility table].

Note #1. You probably shouldn't carry most of this around town with you. I'd carry the knife and the AVS most of the time and take the taser, guardians, and SPAS on runs. Probably. I generally count the +2 from a conceable holster before the +50% from a long coat (it makes sense in a way) the pistols should probably have 1 higher conceal.

Thanks again guys. I hadn't really planned on Tex carrying around all of these guns on the street. These are just what he owns at this point. Do you think it would ... 'safe' for Tex to walk around the streets with only his cougar fineblade and his AVS? Should he carry at least one Heavy Pistol? Speaking of Heavy Pistols, why are you not a fan of the Guardain, TinkerGnome? From what I see in CC it has a better conceal than the Predator III, has only 3 less rounds per clip, does the same damage, has SA & BF mode, and has 1 RC point built in. I can throw on a smartlink 2 and be good to go.

Oh, and I didn't know you could put folding stocks on pistols. Won't that hurt their conceal?

Say I'm carrying 2 Guardians, the AVS and the SPAS-22 and I give each of them a smartlink 2 ... will they all plug into the same smartlink cyberware? am I missing something?

Folding stocks on a pistol just looks retarded... but there's nothing stopping you from doing it as far as I know, well, except good taste and style. I prefer getting a custom grip and an underbarrel weight (yes, the rules say you can't, but several pistols have underbarrel mounts; just ask your GM.. and if he's not keen on that, ask if you can have the barrel replaced with a Heavy Barrel). Sure, the underbarrel weight hits your Conceal by -1, but it's worth it for that recoil-free double BF shooting when using a pair of 'em, and you really only need to do that when you *really* need to take an opponent down fast. Otherwise, you're better off in the completely recoil-free SA mode (even without any augmentations) anyway.

But yes, as long as all of your weapons have a smartlink modification, you can use them with your smartlink implant. Always go with smartlink-2 if you can afford it; the bonus to Called Shots makes it worthwhile, doubly so if your GM is using the game-breaking rule that allows Called Shots to completely bypass armor.

Well, a lot of reasons. It is a descent "all around" weapon, but isn't actually as good as other weapons for the roles it fills. The Predator III is, by far, the best "use and ditch" weapon for a street sam (600 SI 1) who wants Smartlink-2 benefits (the Guardian is 900 SI 2.5 plus you have to upgrade the smartlink if you want the called shot bonuses). The difference of 1 point of conceal (which stays at 1 point, even after all of the modifiers) isn't really worth the change on that front.

When you get into the topic of burst fire, you're generally talking about a run or a Z zone (autofire brings police responses pretty fast). Both places where you should probably have a shotgun or SMG on hand, both of which would let you deal more damage out.

Don't get me wrong, it's not a bad weapon by any means. It's a little expensive, but it has good conceal and a capacity to deliver a big punch if you really need it. The small clip and high weight are drawbacks, but it's a pretty good weapon for all that, just not one that I've used much.

If the character is a bounty hunter (or was that just background?) then it probably wouldn't have the same philosophy about gear, since there'd be no need to throw guns away (or sell them cheap to gangs, or whatever is done with them). Of course, if it's a "ballistic fingerprint" that's the worry, just replace the barrel instead of throwing away a whole gun.

Oh yeah, and if planning on firing a gun in each hand, you might want the ambidexterity edge at the highest rating. Pg. 94 in Cannon Companion.

I never said it's not a good gun or a valid choice, just that it's not one of the ones I usually go for

Well, thanks for the insughtful info again guys. I'm learning ... slowly but surely. You have persuaded me to go with the Predator III ... and I think I will just go with one instead of two. I'll move the Defiance Super Shock to the other concealable/QD holster. So, here is what I have so far:

RESOURCES
A- Resources(1,000,000)
B- Attributes(27)
C- Skills(34)
D- Magic(mundane)
E- Race(Human)


ATTRIBUTES
Body-5
Quickness-6(9)
Strength-6
Charisma-2
Intelligence-4
Willpower-4
Essence-6
Magic-0
Reaction-5


SKILLS
Athletics-5
Stealth-5
Pistols-6
Shotguns-6
Etiquette[Street]-2(4)
Unarmed Combat[Brawling]-4(6)
Bikes-2


CONTACTS
"Crystal" (lvl 2 contact) A stripper who knows Tex from his days as a bouncer in
the Santa Fe strip club.

Roosevelt Biggs (lvl 1 contact) A bounty hunter who showed Tex the ropes of the
biz.

Ragni "Spider" Carlito (lvl 1 contact) low level Mafia member - friend of a friend

"Lich" (lvl 1 contact) Fixer introduced to Tex by Bounty Hunter Roosevelt Biggs

LIFESTYLE
Low
Middle


WEAPONS
One Cougar Fineblade (shortblade) sheathed in right boot.
One AVS in concealable/QD at the ankle
One Defiance SS in concealable/QD at left hip
One Predator III in concealable/QD at right hip
One Franchi SPAS-22 on (concealable?) sling/harness.

Of course, Tex doesn't always carry all of these weapons around on the street.
Regular street weapons will include his cougar fineblade, AVS and his Predator III

I'm at work right now so I'll have to accessorize the guns when I get home and have my reference books.

EXTERNAL ARMOR/CLOTHING
Securetech Long Coat (fashioned to look like a wester duster?)
Armante "Dallas" line shirt
Armante "Dallas" line slacks
Amor Vest
(Combat Boots?)


BIOWARE
The only bioware that I am certain that I want are:
Enhanced Articulation
Muscle Toner(3)


That's all I have for now. forgive any typoes or errors .. I was in a hurry when I typed this.

Like I said earlier, spring for that synthcardium 2 bioware. It'll add two more dice to anything athletic related you do, and as your character's job is to make the world go boom, it will come up a lot. Combined with enhanced articulation, you'll be rolling 8 dice for athletics.

You could probably get benefit from having a Guardian as well as a Pred. Not like you can have too many guns

It's too bad you're using the Priority System. Not that it's a bad system, especially for someone learning the rules, but it penalizes you for being a mundane human. An ork or dwarf (race priority D) could take the same Skills, Attributes, and Resources as you, and then get to add their Attribute bonuses for race. An ork would have 3 more Attribute points than you do - that's like having A: Resources and A: Attributes!

Okay .... I looked into some cyberware and basically decided to go with what TinkerGnome mentioned an elf sammie he mentioned earlier in this thread had taken (skilwires R4, wired reflexes II<alpha>, reflex trigger<alpha>, datajack<alpha>, chipjack<alpha>, cyberear replacement<alpha> with dampener, hearing amp, and select sound filter) except he didn't mention memory for the Skillwires R4, so I went with 150 MP and the end result (according to my often incorrect calculations) had my cyberware running me 734,500 (and that's WITHOUT making adjustments for the Street Index)

My figures on my Bioware (Enhanced Articulation, Muscle Toner 3, and Synthcardium 2) put my B.I. at 2.1 and the cost at 130,000 which brings the total so far to 864,500 (again, without making adjustments for the S.I.)

Throw in the cost for weapons (which has changed ... again ) Predator III, Colt Manhunter, Defiance SS, Franchi SPAS-22, and the Cougar shortblade (without ammo and accessories ...for now...) and thats an additional 3,875 bringing the new total up to 868,375 (again, no SI has been figured in)

I still have to figure ammo and accessories, armor and clothing, lifestyles, contacts, transportation, and other stuff like fake ID and whatnot. Does everything sound okay or have I royaly fragged things up?

Moab, the "standard" for Skillwires 4 would be 48 MP of memory. You'll save around 200,000 with the lower memory! Cost 96,000, essence .80.

48MP allows using one general rating 4 skill chip.
(General Skillsoft memory used = Rating x Rating x 3)
(Specialization Skillsoft memory used = Rating x Rating x 2)

New characters don't have to adjust for Street Index for their gear. It's only after character creation that you use Street Index.

/Edit: Suggest you add Chipjack Expert Driver 3, and Smartlink 2.

Here are costs using the CED 3, Smartlink2, and assuming the Select Sound Filter is Rating 5 (expensive!)

It looks to me like you are doing things properly.

Crud! I made a few errors in my list (it was 2 am when I posted it afterall). I don't know why I put the Colt Manhunter, I must have been reading about it when I typed the list up. That should be my AVS. That is going to be my "holdout" gun, even though it is not listed as a holdout. What would some of you guys say is your favorite Holdout gun and why?

Also, can I have a Smartlink 2 on my SPAS-22 or no?

On a different note, I read in M&M where you can take up to .5 esence worth of cyberear ... components (i.e. Dampener, Hearing Amp, Sound Filter) without further effecting the essence cost. So, if I understood that correctly, would't that leave me with 1.44 essence remaining?

You think Skillwires R3 -MP 27 will do nicely for Tex at startup?

Where do I find info and prices for fake IDs?

And I know this is way off topic ... but what, exactly does "Omae" mean? I assume it means something like, buddy, pal, or friend. How do you pronounce it? Oh-may, Ahm-e, Ohm-wa? I know it's trivial, I'm just curious. I am familiar with a lot of other SR slang (though not all, I'm sure) but I haven't seen an explanation for "Omae."

I'll think of more stuff to ask later, I'm sure. Like, how would I determine the cost of an OLD Harley Davidson (like from the year 2012)? And I will certainly ask more when I start looking at skillsofts, knowsofts, activesofts and whatnot.

Well, thanks again chummers.
Catch ya later

"Big Mo"

Yep, if you have your eyes or ears replaced with mechanical ones, you get .5 essence worth of free (essence-wise) addons. Keep in mind that you have to match grades for cybereyes (ie, alphaware eyes can only have alphaware addons). You can also just stick the addons into natural eyes/ears (most of them) and not have your meat eyes/ears removed.

The SPAS comes with smartlink-2 standard

Skillwires 3 vs. skillwires 4. 6 dice for most stuff vs. 7 dice for most stuff. If you intend to use the wires for combat stuff where running out of task pool is important, then I'd go with the 4. If you're mostly chipping B/R skills, technical skills, etc, then 3 should be plenty.

Fake IDs are on page 239 of the main book.

I'm glad you didn't get caught in the "Using Priority? Might as well be a dwarf or ork. They get good bonuses!" trap.

For hold outs...This has been debated around here and generally hold-outs don't pack enough of a punch to be worht carrying. I personaly don't like going anywhere w/o at least a heavy pistol. So my "hold out" of choice is the Morrissey Elite.

If you really want something lighter, go w/ one of the high conceal Light Pistols like the Walther.

But the way its written, Light Pistols and Hold Outs seem to be just for flavor. With the right ammo and a good enough pistols skill, I guess you might be able to slow some one down--a human or elf someone, anyway. But you aint gonna stop 'em.

Edit: if you get alpha eyes remember that the alpha componts going in get the Essence reduction as well.

With a cybered character, the vision mods aren't that significant and, in the long run, a human's extra karma pool makes them as good a choice as elf or ork

Good points. I wasn't advocating the Dwarf or Ork option.

I know you weren't, Kev, but that is the "trap" of the dwarf/ork. Most people look at them and think "wow, that's 3-4 attribute points and a natural vision mode for nothing!" when the truth is that it costs you the equivalent of a 5 point flaw (Bad Karma) and the potential for racism. It's about even in terms of choices

You're preaching to quire on that one.

That being said, I don't have anything against them as long as char race is selected based on concept rather than numbers.

Where do I find these Edges and Flaws I've been hearing about?

I really hope I'm not annoying you guys by inundating you with questions. I really appreciate all the insightful information you guys are providing. Thanks a million.

Edges and Flaws are covered in the Shadowrun Companion.

Damn, I wish I had a panel of experts to help me with first shadowrun character. I would have gotten up to speed much faster.

Ask and ye shall receive. At least that's how I did it. . Okay, time to study some more Shadowrun stuff.

You'll know you've annoyed people with questions when they stop answering them (though it's always possible no one really knows). Considering the perpensity of people on this board (myself included) to love the sound of their own typing, I doubt that'll happen any time soon

That sounds like a great idea. Where can I get this program?

There's some really good software out there. Check the community projects board here - you'll find threads on NSRGC (a complete character generator), Gun creation software, Valkyrie (for Cyberware), CCOC (for Decks) and probably some others that I've missed. A lot of people also have their own tools to help (I've used an Excel spreadsheet to keep track of things).

I've only recently converted to using computer software for these things after I used to destroy a couple of rain forests for each character (Even using pencil and an eraser there's only so many times you can correct things!). Nothing like having something automatically keep track of points/money etc either.

Word of warning though - the writers of the software might not agree with you (or your GM) about how certain rules work... Bear that in mind and you should be fine. Good hunting

The NSRCG is available on matrix.dumpshock.com/mcmackie. Get the full package for your first installation. It is not a substitute for the books, but is sure helps making sure the addition and subtraction required during character creation is done right.

Valkyrie Module is here, and the CCDC is here. If you look up at the Community Projects forum (one of the sub-forums at the top of this one), the creators have discussion and bug-reporting threads, so you can help out by reporting bugs and keep abreast of updates and the like. Now looks to be very exciting, because it looks like all three projects are going to be interconnected into one big chargen system.