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katiegreen: 
Ditto Drain Brain and Zazen (but then I've always encouraged flavour). Note to self: include a variant on that edge for a specific NPC: it's something he should be good at.
Ditto also Morphling the Pretender: I'm one of the ones always arguing not to make the Shadowrun TN system easier! Still, the opening was canon-created: how do we use it? I've always ruled that any knowledge background skill specifically derived from an active skill (and thus a "bonus") could not be used as a complementary skill for that particular active skill: the PC's knowledge of the active skill already subsumed that knowledge. However, knowledge background skills independently purchased could be so used. Easiest way of keeping track of this on-sheet was to record as background skills only those specifically purchased, and just keep in mind the 1/2 rule for actives.
Most of my PCs and NPCs tend to have personal cultural knowledge skills appropriate to their background: Confucianism, meditation, religion, Tir symbolic language. Because of a central NPC several PCs have made a distinction between card games (gambling), card games (skill), card games (cheating), and card games (social interaction). (Background story: having to leave a place in a hurry once because the Divining skill kicked in while playing poker with a significant ante-pot on the table and - to break the possible future - the cards in-hand and being dealt became a quick variant on 52-pickup.)
TinkerGnome:
Your PC and a sometime troll member of my team should get together sometime and go head-to-head over Urban Brawl season forecasts
Ditto Drain Brain and Zazen (but then I've always encouraged flavour). Note to self: include a variant on that edge for a specific NPC: it's something he should be good at.
Ditto also Morphling the Pretender: I'm one of the ones always arguing not to make the Shadowrun TN system easier! Still, the opening was canon-created: how do we use it? I've always ruled that any knowledge background skill specifically derived from an active skill (and thus a "bonus") could not be used as a complementary skill for that particular active skill: the PC's knowledge of the active skill already subsumed that knowledge. However, knowledge background skills independently purchased could be so used. Easiest way of keeping track of this on-sheet was to record as background skills only those specifically purchased, and just keep in mind the 1/2 rule for actives.
Most of my PCs and NPCs tend to have personal cultural knowledge skills appropriate to their background: Confucianism, meditation, religion, Tir symbolic language. Because of a central NPC several PCs have made a distinction between card games (gambling), card games (skill), card games (cheating), and card games (social interaction). (Background story: having to leave a place in a hurry once because the Divining skill kicked in while playing poker with a significant ante-pot on the table and - to break the possible future - the cards in-hand and being dealt became a quick variant on 52-pickup.)
TinkerGnome:
Your PC and a sometime troll member of my team should get together sometime and go head-to-head over Urban Brawl season forecasts
I tend to view the freebie background skills as the theoretical sort of things...
As a RL example - I can drive, quite well in fact, but I also have quite good knowledge of various types of cars - manufacturers, models etc. That would be my Car Background.
I know very little about mechanics, so my Car B/R would be low, and equally my Car B/R background would be low, although I know more about the theory of mechanics than I do the implementation.
This is why such things should be watched, hawk like.
Note that none of these knowledge skills would help me drive or repair a car. Car shopping? Yes. Maybe even the groundwork stage of car design. But not the practicals. That's the active stuff...
As a RL example - I can drive, quite well in fact, but I also have quite good knowledge of various types of cars - manufacturers, models etc. That would be my Car Background.
I know very little about mechanics, so my Car B/R would be low, and equally my Car B/R background would be low, although I know more about the theory of mechanics than I do the implementation.
This is why such things should be watched, hawk like.
Note that none of these knowledge skills would help me drive or repair a car. Car shopping? Yes. Maybe even the groundwork stage of car design. But not the practicals. That's the active stuff...
Ah, the Ork decker Gritz, favorite character of mine, was given a active distilling/hootch 1/3 skill with a BG distilling 3 knowledge skill by the GM. Nothing like having a mini moonshine still bubbling away in the back of the combat Winnebago during the run. When the day is over, pop the Bison's back hatch, drag the grill out of the storage locker, and you've got yourself an taligate party for your chummers (not a bad way to blend in to a large crowd, really).
There's also nothing like a "Bar Locations" knowledge skill of 1. Seeing that botched has led to some amusing night spots ("But I was looking for a student pub near UWash-Seattle!" "Well, you've found something very different.....")
There's also nothing like a "Bar Locations" knowledge skill of 1. Seeing that botched has led to some amusing night spots ("But I was looking for a student pub near UWash-Seattle!" "Well, you've found something very different.....")
For anyone who missed it, this is also said regarding knowledge skills and complementary skill use on pg.97 of SR:
| QUOTE |
| Background skills ARE NOT considered Complementary Skills unless specifically noted in the rules. |
| QUOTE |
| In a very few cases, an Active Skill can act as a Complementary Skill--for example, Active Skills serving as complements to the corresponding Build/Repair Skill. For the purpose of reducing the base time to build or repair something, the player can roll dice for the character's Active Skill as a complement to the Build/Repair Skill. Players cannot use the Active Skill to make the initial Build/Repair Success Test; if that test fails, any successes from the Complementary Skill Test do not count. |
It also states that gm's should use the game mechanic of complementary skills sparingly.
Thanks snowRaven, I was about to go look those quotes up.
@ Morphling The Pretender
Your post indicates that you believe Complementary Skills can lower the target number for the regular skill. They don't. They have the potential for adding a few more successes onto an already successful skill roll. SR3 p. 97
@ Talia Invierno
You say "just keep in mind the 1/2 rule for actives". The suggested free Background Knowledge Skills are not at 1/2 the rating of the Active Skill. It's 3 less than the active. Minor point for rules lawyers. And not worth quiveling over as it is an optional rule for GMs. SR3 p. 89. On second thought I won't type this.
Your post indicates that you believe Complementary Skills can lower the target number for the regular skill. They don't. They have the potential for adding a few more successes onto an already successful skill roll. SR3 p. 97
@ Talia Invierno
You say "just keep in mind the 1/2 rule for actives". The suggested free Background Knowledge Skills are not at 1/2 the rating of the Active Skill. It's 3 less than the active. Minor point for rules lawyers. And not worth quiveling over as it is an optional rule for GMs. SR3 p. 89. On second thought I won't type this.
I've obviously been dealing with too many level 6 active skills.
New skill for GM: ability to remember the rule correctly. (Thanks, all.)
New skill for GM: ability to remember the rule correctly. (Thanks, all.)
@Morphling:
Were you perhaps thinking of the Centering metamagic technique and its associated skill? That does lower TNs, even if only to counteract penalties.
Were you perhaps thinking of the Centering metamagic technique and its associated skill? That does lower TNs, even if only to counteract penalties.
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