I wish to be 100% on this
Alright now the rules for combat damage are
Add the net hits scored to the base Damage Value to get the modified damage value now if the modified damage value does not exceed the targets armor(after accounting for armor penetration). The attack inflicts stun instead of physical damage.

Now because a Vehicle has no stun damage track that would mean the attack is completely negated right?

Vehicles have hardened armor so you're basically correct.

"If the attack's modified DV does not exceed the vehicle's modified Armor, no damage is applied" - SR4 p.161

That and because Vehicle Armor states that if the modified DV does not exceed the modified Armor, the attack fails automatically. Last sentence of Vehicle Armor, SR4, page 158.

Jinx.

My one complaint about the SR4 book is the organization, somethings are so scattered, it can make finding the exact rule difficult.

This topic has come up at the table, so let me expand the scope a little - in the 'Called Shots Against Vehicles' section, they suggest that you can pick off a weapon system with a called shot. How do you handle that? How much DV do you require to break it, and how much of the vehicle's armor do you include on the system, and how much of a penalty do you apply to the shot? I'd love some opinions.

Another question, Arsenal has rules to cover the material cost of repairing a damaged vehicle, but the book assumes the runners have someone on their team skilled in vehicle repair. But I'm guessing most teams aren't totally self-sufficient. If your truck suffered 8 boxes of damage the raw material cost is 8% of the cost of the vehicle. But I've looked up and down over that book and can't find any reference to paying someone else to repair your vehicle.

I haven't found a rule either, but you could probably adapt the rules for hiring a Fixer to find gear - give the mechanic a rating from 1-6, and add 5% per rating to the cost of the work. Assume the rating is the mechanic's average Logic and Mechanic skill, so Rating*2 is the pool rolled to determine how long the work takes.

Just a corner case, but is it possible at all to hurt a vehicle with stun damage, even if the DV exceeds its armor? Say, for instance, that someone manages to do 18S to a vehicle with 10 armor. Would the vehicle ignore it entirely or actually take damage on its one condition monitor?

GM call. I think RAW probably says that Stun won't help, but if one of my players managed to do 18S I'd find some way to give them *some* sort of effect - maybe it rattles the pilot, forces a Piloting test, or deals 18S-Armor to the passengers.

Do a called shot to ignore the armor of the vehicle, taking it as a dicepool penalty, and give the weapon a condition monitor of 6 to 8. Don't forget the "Shooting While Moving" -2 (or was it -3?) DP penalty as well.


You have a few options:
1) Have a mechanic on the team.
2) Buy a mechanic a-la Lockheed Vulcan, modified for whichever mechanic you need.
3) Take it to a mechanic in-game and deal with the costs plus whatever service charge he decides to levy.

1): We don't have a mechanic, my very question assumed the team did not have a mechanic, I wouldn't be looking for the labor repair costs in the Arsenal book if the assumption was every team can do all their own repairs.
2): Hmm a drone mechanic, actually a good idea, the group can certainly afford it, plus upgrades to give it a more advanced pilot program and repair software.
3): Once again there are no rules present for the manual labor cost of getting someone else to do the repairs.

So then option #2 works for you. I included the others for completion's sake. For #1 someone could pop 4 karma and grab a mechanic skill at R1, or 10 karma for the group at R1, and for #3, I meant that you'd have to deal with whatever your GM decided to charge you.

I would adapt the hire-a-hacker rules from unwired for purposes of hiring mechanics.

I thought about this, and it would end up working fairly well. I would personally add an additional charge. Current garages IRL charge a minimum of 50-80 dollars simply for bringing the vehicle in.

I would assume using the Hacker-Hire rules for a mechanic, plus a flat-rate 100 (at least) charge simply for using the garage.

Well the team acquired a maintenance drone and a mechanics shop to repair our Van. Then on the following run acquired a new heavily armored vehicle. Its similar to a city-master but without a weapon mount. Though we plan to modify it to carry a concealed weapon mount.

I'd use this same rule - I don't know about the amount; I'm not calibrated to SR4 costs yet - for hackers and electronics work, as well.

for the do it yourself mechanics out there, how would you determine what tools are required for the repair? as in this damage can be fixed with your tool kit, but that damage is going to require a facility.

1-3 boxes of damage are considered minor and require only a kit, anything more requires a shop. The cost in parts is also (1% per box of damage)of the cost of the vehicle.

Ares Roadmaster from Arsenal?

No it quite literally had the exact same statistics as an Aries Citymaster minus the weapon mount. For that adventure the GM was using a download mission. Its called an Urbano and was disguised as a DocWagon vehicle.

Though looking at the Roadmaster gives me the idea of upgrading our vehicle with some gunports, in addition to a concealed weapon mount and a manual control override. Also want to to put some smuggling compartments and Wi-fi-inhibiting paint on the inside of the rear compartment of the vehicle

Not sure what weapon will be in that mount, we may use the Stoner Aries that was used to shoot up or Bulldog van. Or we may use an assault rifle as we have several hundred rounds of explosive ammo for an assault rifle from the same mission as the vehicle. Ten ghoul guards each armed with FN-HAR's and two clips of EX ammo each.
The facility being a Tamanous organ farm. We felt safe looting all the weapons and ammo.

If you add gun ports to the Citymaster you'll be compromising its Life Support.

The road master has both gunports and life support 1. So obviously the gunports can be closed restoring the life support system.

You can design a sealed plug for when they are not in use, and even then a few gunports are not that big holes when they are used.

If you're filtrating external air rather than going the more complex (and expensive) fully closed-system design, the pump system usually has enough througput to maintain some amount of overpressure even with several leaks here and there, including opened gunports.

Even with a closed system, you will shorten it's duration, but not utterly ruin it. Also Life Support can take the form of an autonomous air supply (think aircraft oxygen masks) from internal tanks, meaving the chem seal aspect to individual equipment of the peoples inside.

Except an air mask won't cover your whole body.

Once again Neraph, the Aries Roadmaster has both life support AND gunports. So why can't a modified citymaster.

Because there's a huge difference between Level 1 and Level 2 Life Support. Page 138 Arsenal.

Level 1 is like a good air filter system. Level 2 allows for travel underwater or in space. I think there might just be a difference there, and I think cutting pieces of the hull out for gun ports might compromise a submarine/spaceship.

Having big holes in the hull would compromise the air filter system to yet the road master gets away with it.
Vehicle damage can also put holes in the hull compromising either system. Which brings us back to closing the gunports. As traditionally defined a gun port is a hatch and a hatch can be closed.

But Life Support 2 is not simply an air filter system. It is a completely enclosed environmental system. You take a car with an air filter and put it in space or underwater, you're more than likely dead. You take a vehicle with Life Support 2 in the same condition, you're safe until you run out of food/water or hit something/something hits you.

If you kids can't play nice, I'm turning this hypothetical bus around and *nobody* will get to shoot automatic weapons out of *anything*!



Seriously, this isn't a GM problem - let the players solve it. If they're driving through a cloud of tear gas and want to shoot out the gun ports, just ask them how they think those gunports work. If they come up with a good reason for keeping the chemseal intact, let 'em have it. If they can't, they've failed the challenge and the penalty is choosing to either not shoot or deal with the gas. The GM gives that 'hey, I gave you guys a chance, I'm trying to help' BS and smiles at them, and it's not the GM's fault if it doesn't work.

Let me offer an alternative to gun ports: weapon mounts. You can have them manually controlled from corresponding areas inside the vehicle. And if you want a concealed look, then get them internal visibility.

No one is saying the Life Support remains intact if the gunports are open. That be like saying you could leave the back doors open and keep the system active. The Citymaster has doors, when the doors are closed the life support functions. It goes without saying if the doors are open the life support will fail to work. Why is it so hard to believe you can close the gunports just like you close the doors?

A manually controlled weapon mount carries with it plenty of issues, first the gunner is no protection from the vehicle armor unless the armored option is chosen. Internal visibility just isn't enough for me. I'd want concealed visibility.

Then of course weapon mounts equal the gunnery skill which no one in the group actually has. So were better off with a drone-like controlled LMG firing in wide bursts for covering fire, or simply reducing the targets defense roll to zero, insuring some hits. *or controlled via one of the technomancers sprites*

No one is saying the Life Support remains intact if the gunports are open. That be like saying you could leave the back doors open and keep the system active. The Citymaster has doors, when the doors are closed the life support functions. It goes without saying if the doors are open the life support will fail to work. Why is it so hard to believe you can close the gunports just like you close the doors?

A manually controlled weapon mount carries with it plenty of issues, first the gunner is no protection from the vehicle armor unless the armored option is chosen. Internal visibility just isn't enough for me. I'd want concealed visibility.

Then of course weapon mounts equal the gunnery skill which no one in the group actually has. So were better off with a drone-like controlled LMG firing in wide bursts for covering fire, or simply reducing the targets defense roll to zero, insuring some hits. *or controlled via one of the technomancers sprites*

Then again, it could be like THIS.
You never know, the Citymaster might not actually have doors! (you'll want to read towards the end of the article)
edit: This is a sad story, and highly unfortunate. You have been warned.

I am. Gun ports don't have to be just holes through which a weapon is fired. There are a variety of modern chemically sealed gun port systems. GlobalShield makes a nice one.