>>New question, see post #11
------------------------------------------------------

Hello everyone
I was planning to put a laser connection on my commlink, so I looked into UW it tells me is that a laser link is avaiable at R1-6 and that the stats in Arsenal represent rating 2. Great...and what do I get at rating 4, except paying more for it?


Question two probably has a less clear answer, but anyway: How VR is Mesh Reality (via the Technomancer echo)? As far as the description goes, it allows to perceive VR and use Matrix init in the real world. But does that mean you actually are in VR and get the two extra dice, vulnerability to Black Hammer and so on, or is it really just some sort of overlay?

Greater range.

Indeed.

As rot said, longer range for the first.

As for the second, the techie becomes dual natured in the sense of real-world+Matrix, as opposed to astral.

That's what I assumed, too, but is this actually specified somewhere? Because I absolutely cannot find the simple line which says "range is rating*50m"


And hooray for hacking while going to the Stuffer Shack

BBB page 212 has the table for range base on signal rating. rating 2 gives 100m, while rating 4 gives 1km.

Presumably, for direct communication, both devices need to have at least the requisite signal to reach between them.

Also, I presume, dead zones are due as much to interference as they are to range to a useful transmitter? (Otherwise, with a signal 6 devices in the dead zone, and another signal 6 devices elsewhere (10km range will get you out of the dead zone), you would not have real dead zones.

Yours,
Joel

That is pointed out in the main book, indeed. Otherwise, it one-way.

Actually, they are just dead.

Keep in mind that you need to upgrade your commlink to get to 6, and most people don' do that - in fact, they'll be at Signal 3-4.
So a dead zone doesn't need to be that big for Joe Average to call it one - to the prepared, there is no such thing as a "dead zone"... you just bring a satlink.

Satlink is always a good idea. Of course, if the dead zone is deep in a building/in a mineshaft/in the sewers, or you've got some kind of heavy weather/solar flares/other GM BS, you can always argue the satlink won't work, but it certainly takes care of most dead zones, from the backwoods to the backstreets.

Thanks, I somehow assumed that this was only for standard Wifi signals.


Most dead zones are those areas the corps and governments simply don't care about, either because it's a completely out-of-the-way backwater region, or a place like the Barrens that has been mostly abandoned. Shadowrun is not the world where Good Samaritans provide infrastructure or even more basic needs unless it's good for their baseline

It's also used to determine effective range for Sensors, even passive ones like micrphones and cameras.

Yeah, I figured that out when looking at the table again. Somehow ranges for anything but commlinks never were a question so far

Rise again to serve your master, thread *waves hand*

Might sound sound a bit weird, but how does a Machine Sprite actually control a drone? My assumption was always that it replaced the drone's pilot prog and we ran with that, but now I tried to do a quick summary of all Rigger-related stuff and couldn't find a single line on that topic (same with agents) written out anywhere...am I getting blind?

I kinda figured they "jumped in" the same as a rigger would. Otherwise they are just sitting there throwing commands at it. Seemed to make sense, use an existing and understood method of interface instead of making up some new and special one for a particular purpose that has no unique mathematical requirement.

The problem with that idea is that the sprite has no skills for handling drones, so all he could do is default (if the test even allows defaulting, pilot aircraft does not for example).
Same problem with the command CF, btw...

It can have Autosofts as optional power. Go for Maneuver and Clearsight.

They can also debatedly use standard drone autosofts. Ask your local GM.

Sure it could load its autosofts into a drone, but that drone would then still be just a drone controlled by its stupid pilot...

There is nothing that prevents a Sprite from "jumping in", and as it has a Pilot rating itself, it can use Autosofts.

failing that, all sprites do have a command CF, and can still use autosofts. at least, it's own autosofts anyways.

So it jumps into a rotodrone, tries to lift off and rolls...well, nothing. It does not have a the pilot(aircraft) skill and can't default on that.



Is that codified anywhere? Because if I understand you correctly that would be what I assumed (the sprite becomes the pilot and uses autosofts)

can't find anything explicit (though i remember reading something that explicitly said it somewhere in the old rule book; maybe i'm crazy, because i can't find it now), but the sprite does have a pilot rating, and is essentially the resonance version of a pilot program.

If you're having a problem with a Sprite piloting a vehicle, then just have it use Diagnostics on the vehicle to boost the vehicle/drone's own abilities. Or, give it (Like someone else said) the Maneuver Autosoft. Since... That's what the Autosoft is for.

See, that's also my problem...there are rules for the interaction of menstruating characters and pheromone scanners, but none for how a sprite controls a drone?


Could it be you are thinking of the old otaku sprites, which essentialy were smart frames?

no, i'm thinking of sprites. look at them. right in their stat line, which consists of: pilot, response, firewall, matrix init, IP, and edge.

Uargh, I'm really getting old. Thanks for the correction, now at least we (well, you) have found something that's called pilot.


@Golgoth: I don't have problems with sprites piloting vehicles, I'm just wondering why semingly there is no single line about how this actually works rules-wise.

When it comes down to it, so am I Sengir. They way I -THINK- it works is like this (pulling mainly from what is already been stated):

Compile a rating 6+ Sprite with Manuevering and Clearsight (since we've already mentioned this) and have it sit in our rating 3/3/3/3/3/3/etc drone (we'll say a Lynx -- The TM is bad at updating the software!) with autosofts for Targeting (Whatever weapon) and Defense.

The Machine Sprite has basically taken over as the Pilot/dog brain of the drone and now begins using the skill set listed under Autonomous Drone Dice Pool.

Init: 6 + Response.
Attack 6 + Targeting
etc, etc.

Now, lets say we decide we want a -second- machine sprite in that node. Something big enough to give a +3 bonus to dicepools when it runs diagnostics. We'll go with 4 (using edge since you're probably going to ensure that the machine sprite will want to help his brother/sister/whatever as best it can).

Now you have a Machine Sprite driving your drone and a second Machine Sprite running Diagnostics for your first Machine Sprite to give it even more bonuses. These bonuses will go up as you improve the autosoft ratings in each (At least I would think, right?).

I hope that this extremely late night post helps... Or at least will cause more discussion about how Machine Sprites operate so that we can, as a community, figure out more concerning Technomancers and their Sprites.

i don't think you can analyse device on an autosoft, if that's what you're saying. you could certainly analyse the drone, as it is a device. i don't think the sprite can use the drone's inherent autosofts, however; the sprite is resonance based and is not equipped to run non-resonant autosofts anymore than a technomancer is equipped to operate non-resonant skillsofts once they get the biowires echo.

as such, you would (imo) need 2 rating 6 sprites to operate a drone for combat purposes. not that the rules allow you to do so, but it really does make a lot more sense for it to be allowed to have 1 pilot/sprite operating the weapons and sensors (targeting and clearsight autosofts, with extra targeting 'softs being the most likely choice for rating 9+) while another pilot/sprite worries about driving/dodging (maneuver and defense autosofts, possibly chaser and covert ops depending on role). if you wanted to go *really* nuts, you could even have a third sprite running communications (EW autosoft and probably clearsight also, or possibly trailblazer), but you might be better off just putting in a sprite that can defend against matrix assaults (although if you're *really* serious about filling out all the positions in the vehicle, you could have a "communications officer" sprite as well as one or more "matrix security" sprites).

however, as i said, technically that isn't allowed. technically you can only have 1 pilot program or rigger operating a vehicle at any given time. presumably this is to simplify things, since in real life with actual humans in the vehicle they would have multiple people with different roles, and i can't imagine them arbitrarily changing that to having one person responsible for everything, but that's how the rules work.

So would the answer then be to toss in a good agent program or just upgrade the drone's stuff to its max in order for the machine to operate at peek efficiency?

At least it shows me that I'm not the only one thinking it works like that, although I didn't get the diagnositcs idea before.


@Jaid: If a sprite works with a drone it will use standard interfaces and protocols, so how the autosoft works internally should not matter. Then again I'm thinking based on real world computers...

an autosoft program is essentially running on the pilot OS. (that is, a pilot program replaces the operating system. autosofts only run in programs with pilot ratings. therefore an autosoft is designed to operate on a pilot program's OS). a sprite doesn't (or at least, logically shouldn't) have the ability to install and run regular autosofts, just like a technomancer can't buy a rating 6 exploit program and run it from a living node.

I mean... it almost seems like that Machine Sprites are useless when it comes to having them inhabit anything other than a medkit or a smartlinked gun. Oh yeah, they can replace the Pilot program with their own piloting, but they need Targetting, Manuever, Clearsight, and Defense (preferable). I can barely compile a rating 7 sprite, much less a rating 9/12. :/

Mind you that a rating 7 sprite with NO autosoft CFs is better than a rating 3 pilot WITH an autosoft. They can be very useful especially in drones/vehicles with lower device ratings/stats.

and also, as i said, it makes all kinds of sense to allow multiple people/programs to control different portions of the drone. if you go into a modern tank, you will find that they don't have one person who does everything. there are more than one person (pretty sure how many depends on the tank in question) in the tank, and each has a different job. the pilot is not also responsible for operating the turret or aiming the gun. it therefore seems reasonable that a given drone could have one program controlling the gun (per gun?), and one driving, plus potentially extras (as i said, a communications/matrix security expert in any security/military vehicle with wireless connectivity is almost guaranteed)

Here's something that might be interesting.. I don't know... Why not have a TM contact that can create autosofts that specifically works with sprites (and TMs since we see code differently anyhow) and load it into the drone? Yeah, when I don't have a sprite running around in the drone, it would be all but completely useless (I'd probably store the primary drone programs in a comlink or some such), but I think that could work. I'll look up the rules for doing all that.

you can't load a resonance-based CF to a non-resonance device. you can affect the device, you can leave stuff created by resonant constructs (like data bombs), but the resonance CF would have to be powered by a resonant entity, such as the sprite itself.

that said, just because technomancers code differently, doesn't mean they write CFs when they create software using the programming skill. they create normal programs, that work on normal devices, and are used by normal people and programs.

i would be strongly opposed to letting a technomancer just make CFs, because there are echoes that specifically allow this exchanging of CFs, and just allowing a techomancer to hand them out would completely invalidate those echoes. and also, it would pretty much remove a key restriction on technomancers.

honestly, given how much technomancers are dominant in every other area, i don't feel much pity for them just because sprite-controlled drones are not massively better than regular drones that have been upgraded to ridiculous levels.

That's not the point I'm trying to get across. I'm simply trying to figure out why it can't be done one way and if it can be done any other way. IE: I want my Sprite to operate like an Agent that I've seen people use to operate a drone. I mean, I can compile the rating 9 or 12 sprite that'll have -all- of the autosofts needed for operating the drone, but I don't -want- to if I can get my sprite to act reasonably well (Not outstandingly to the point where I'm super awesome powerful and can do everything better than everyone... I leave that to the plethora of Hacker/Sams and Hacker/Adepts out there) at rating 4 or 6 or whatever.

As it stands, I'm the backup hacker in my group. I know, I know. But the primary hacker needs to be able to hack and shoot things and I can do one but not the other. If I could operate a drone without having to specialize in rigging, I'd probably be the second primary, or the primary primary... or whatever. But, since the BP being a hacker TM sorta limits you on being dominant in one specific area and nothing else, I'm stuck in the van pulling overwatch or my favorite, playing dead inside the mission location.

IIRC the Otaku at the old Denver Data Haven wrote various utilities for the Haven, so I guess there is some way to do this...or maybe it was the Resonance inside the Haven. Nothing I'd allow a character to do, though.


Rating 5 sprites are supposed to kick some ass, with a single R5 autosoft they would be inferior in most areas.

As an Insta-Houserule™ I'd say that the sprite can use any autosoft that the drone has been using for [AS rating] days, because TMs shouldn't just be able to buy a bunch of conventional autosofts for their sprites over time the resonance of the drone's node becomes attuned to the AS and a machine sprite can access it.

or the technomancer can just use pilot programs, which can perform just fine.

or, just like i've said, simply use multiple sprites to operate the drone.

But are dumb like a box of hammers when it comes to anything exceeding their normal parameters. Which is the whole reason why my char wants sprites to do the job for him, why bother with stupid "mundane" code if you can have a smart companion?


BTW, what is the Technomancer equivalent to mundane?

Then have your intelligent and sapient sprite micromanage a pilot.

1) a high rating pilot program with appropriate 'softs (like adaptability) is actually quite smart, and you can give it a selection of softs so that it is in fact skilled in the areas you need it to be in. combat is probably the main area where you need a whole lot of autosofts, and it's really quite easy to prepare your drones for that. other tasks you will generally be able to spend the time to swap autosofts as needed.

2) as was mentioned above, you can have a sprite manage your drone fleet if needed.

3) i suppose the technomancer equivalent to mundane is probably unemerged, in much the same way unawakened is also used for 'mundanes'. although given the whole resonance/sound theme, i could see some technomancers referring to those not emerged as being tone-deaf (or just deaf in general) and similar names.

My question is this, why are we assuming the Machine Sprite can't use the autosofts of the drone when jumping in? An agent could, and most indications show that for rules purposes, sprites are essentially smarter, more powerful agents. Sure, fluff wise we all know they're vastly different, but so are Complex Forms from Programs, but to simplify rules they follow the same basic stuff (except for some optional ones listed in Unwired)

That's my beef too, SleepIncarnet. Jaid's interpretation (and I'm certain several others) is that since a Sprite is built from Resonance Stuffs, it can't use normally coded/programmed stuff that the Pilot program is capable of. I've not seen that anywhere in the rules that say it can't. The ONLY thing that I can recall (I don't have my books with me at this second) is that the TM can't teach a mundane his version of Computer skills, and vice versa.

SR4A, p. 247 in the Autonomous Drone list, Maneuvering is just Pilot + Maneuver. If a Sprite is inside the Drone, I'd rule that the Sprite's pilot simply overrides the Drone's Pilot rating. If you need one which is deft and maneuverable, give it the autosoft. If you don't care about moving and just want to shoot, use a Targeting Autosoft.

Pretty Much...

Keep the Faith