So due to a character concept I had I found myself needing a particular kind of spell to partially overcome a limitation the character has.

Without going into detail as to why I want the spell, the question is: Does it violate the known rules of magic?

Physical Manipulation (touch):
Spell temporarily reduces the size of the object by increasing its density (matter is neither created nor destroyed in the process, the item has the same mass and weight under the effect of the spell as it does normally).

The guidelines in Street Magic approximate the drain cost at (F/2)-2 (Physical +1, Touch -2, Restricted Target -1, Sustained +0)

My GM is claiming that there's no precedent for this kind of spell in ShadowRun lore, which may be true, but is there anything that says its actually impossible?

I don't know if it would violate the known rules of magic, but something to keep in mind is that you're affecting the physical dimensions of an object. That means you're going to have to deal with the Object Resistance Threshold, which is 4 and 6 for manufactured and highly processed objects, respectively. A better guideline for this spell might be "Shape [material]" in Street Magic.

It's F/2 + 3, and you have to beat the resistance threshold with your spellcasting roll. The problem with Shape is that it only affects one material at a time - to change a multi-substance object, you'd need to cast multiple spells to get it to work.

Your GM might be claiming there is no precedent because the drain on your version of the spell is absurdly low. If you were a mage and had that, why would you use anything else? Need to get rid of security? Shrink them down and throw them in a Faraday bag. Too many cameras? Shrink yourself, climb through the vents. Need a distraction? Shrink a pepper punch grenade and put it in someone's bag at the mall.

Not a bad start, but you probably need a few qualifiers, such as "non-living targets only."


Touch is fine, I could buy restricted target if it was "non-living objects only," but you're going to have to add in "Major Change +2" and "Restricted Effect -1" for a total Drain (F/2 - 1) [this basically works out to a touch-based, restricted effect version of Shape (Material).]

(Why "Major Change"? Because you're perilously close to breaking Rule #3 "Sorcery Cannot Alter the Fabric of the Space/Time Continuum.")

What you really need to work on is the effect. Your resistance test handles whether or not the spell takes effect, but the actual /effects/ of the spell depend on how dense the material already is. Compressing a water balloon isn't quite so simple as the genteel application of pressure, and a single success on trying to compress a diamond might not be measurable to the naked eye.

Note that this would not directly damage the object, but it could indirectly cause damage. You couldn't shrink half a pillar for example, but if you shrank the entire free-standing pillar and the roof it was supporting collapsed, that would be kosher.

It's not exactly true that there's no precedent for this sort of spell in shadowrun. The shapeshift spell can allow a character to turn into an animal of varying size, limited by his/her body plus or minus 2, shrinking to the size of a squirrel or growing to the size of an ostrich if he had a body of 2. So size-change isn't impossible in the shadowrun universe, although it might be limited by mass.

That was the "restricted target." Sorry if I didn't elaborate.



I wasn't entirely clear what "restricted effect" actually meant.



The idea is to carry more in less space. I'm not concerned with weight, and the things I'm toting along have almost none to begin with, but carrying an eclectic collection of tools while naked poses a problem.
(I'm trying to have fun with the dynamic chameleon skin SURGE quality)
There are other solutions, but none nearly so...elegant as stuffing things into a pouch on a single, easily hidden, glove.



Noted. And its these effects (and things like "small rocks which have boulder mass, wielded by a troll as a ranged weapon" or "shrinking someone's armor, and crushing them") that have my GM crying "too powerful."



Highly processed is 5. It was reduced from 6 after the forums declared foul due to Improved Invisibility now needing an ungodly high force and rate of success to be useful. In any case I'm not terribly concerned: I need a spell first. After that I can deal with making use of it.

If you're trying to carry things while naked and you're already a changeling, why not get a marsupial pouch? It's already covered in your color changing skin and doesn't cost essence like a skin pocket would.

Because I ran out of build points. I have space in "positive qualities" but I have exactly 0 points to spend (and if I found some, I'd spend them on skills).

If you're thinking of a spell you must have atleast 3BP to spend, but I get what you mean about coming down to the last build points during chargen.

If you can afford a hit to your essence, you could buy a skin pocket, although those are a bit expensive at 5000 . Or you could get a small backpack with ruthenium polymer coating. Or if you really want to go the spell route, I'd say that your spell works pretty well as is, although I don't think you could feasibly shrink your tools down to the size it would take to fit into a pocket in a glove...

Some of the spell design stuff works best by circumspection. Consider the Shape [Element] spell: it allows any change in the physical shape of the target object. What you want (changing the dimensions and nothing else) can be seen as a limited version of that spell, or a restricted effect. Generally once you define a restricted effect, other versions or variants of the same spell become obvious - for example, a spell Decompress that increases volume but leaves mass and dimensions intact, or a spell Skew which retains volume but shifts or skews an object along a single axis, that kind of thing.

Manipulation spells are a bit of a pain in the ass since there's so much for GMs to manage about them, so be careful not to abuse. Shrinking the grenades down until they fit on a bracelet and spraypainting them gold? Spiffy. However, they're still going to weigh as much as a bandoleer of grenades, even if they're on one arm. No shrinking your motobike into a toy and sticking it into your pouch; it would tear right through the bottom.

This is one of those spells that gives physicists and engineers hives, because changing the volume and density of things can have a serious impact on whether or not they're functional. If you shrink any electronic device down, it probably won't work (you probably won't lose any data either, but it won't function while shrunk). Water balloons...the phrase "contents under pressure" comes to mind; you might make a qualifier that any damage to the compressed object causes the spell to end immediately and the object attains its original dimensions...which gets really interesting if said compressed object is in a place that's too small for it.

Which is where this spell comes perilously close to breaking rule #3.

The trick there is to start out with a Decrease BOD spell, and then follow it up with a Shapechange or Critter Form. That way, even the street sam can be turned into a sparrow.

You would have to sustain both spells, at my table at least. Or face the consequences.

Sustain or use foci, but yeah.

Going the ruthenium polymer backpack route. Gave up trying to convince the GM that the spell wasn't going to overpower things.
(Speaking of ruthenium polymer and backpacks, how much does that cost? Also: you don't need 3BP for the spell, you need $1500 nuyen for the spell formula, which takes days to learn, versus months*lots to research the spell)



Exactly, this is what I was intending.



Reasonable limitation (with regards to data, given that ShadowRun has gone "solid state, all the time" even if the device lost power it wouldn't lose RAM data or hard drive data).



The solution is to look up how Polymorph Any Object plays in D&D with regards to tossing a bunch of pebbles (cows) into a small room (with the players in it). The pebbles stop being pebbles, promptly fill a greater volume than the room, everything dies, and you get meat squirting out the holes (doors, windows). In context to ShadowRun you would have both objects deal damage to each other until one of them broke (either the space increases to fit the object via damaging deformation, or the object fits in the space the same way). So a bowling ball in a small aluminum box would result in a bowling ball encased in a thin aluminum shell. A box of crackers under a rock would result in crumbs.

So far you want a Shrink spell, that is only usable on object and doesn't change the weight of it. So a Troll would throw Claymore like throwing knifes and the mage unsustain the spell so it take it's size once in the body ? Or it's while it touch you, the spell is sustained else it's the regular size. That would be a better option.

If you touch the item (if it's in your bag you touch it), and you sustain the spell, the item is shrunk.

All the other problems aside, you only need to touch the target of the spell while casting it, once you sustain it, you can be anywhere you like.

Know what's more efficient?

MANABOLT

Nothing beat a stunball !

I'm working on that.

A character casted that in a game to stop a melee... The other player was in a bad situation and the mage casted a big Stunball ! The character had a big Wisdom but the foe did not ...

I chose manabolt as "more effective" as it does Physical (much like a thrown superheavy knife) and is single target.

Argh, stunball. The cat shaman in my first SR game cast a stunball centered on the party, figuring that even if we were injured, the other Runner team would be at least as injured. They all resisted. We all took damage. That was a very unhappy round of combat.

yeah, but at least the Stunball you can shoot it a friends ... LOL

Friendly fire is not.

Hehe back to your subject, it should work. But sustaining a spell for each item ... It's a little too much for your dicepool ... but having a foci for each means that you are a chrismas tree in astral !