Dumpshock Forums > Shadowrunner team

da Loof

Dec 17 2009, 02:01 AM

A lot of the time, people will post their runner-in-the-works for critiquing. The problem is that you don't get the "bigger picture" - you don't get to see how the runner fits in with the rest of the group. So here, I'm posting all five group members of the Shadowrunning party. Feel free to comment on any or all of them, point out what you like, what could be done better, etc. Discriptions of the runners and their intended niches will accompany the stat blocks.

MELEE ADEPT - this guy is mainly there for dishing out the hurt up-close, though he is hardly a pushover with his SMG. He is also a very competant driver and has a sweet motorcycle for getting around in style, in situations where the big runner '68 Rover just won't do.

[ Spoiler ]

MAGICIAN - he's an eagle shapeshifter of a self-taught tradition (Similar to Shamanism). He's fairly versatile, with a preferance towards Manipulation.

[ Spoiler ]

HACKER - This guy's one of the most versatile hackers you'll find - he can do everything but rig, but that is partially offset by his skills as an actual driver. He's not the best shot or the strongest of the bunch, but he's a genious with every program he could possibly hope for. He's also got a killer databomb which dishes out an additional 5S points of damage whenever it detonates (it is a Pavlov, so it will be able to continue dishing out the hurt after the fact), which in addition to the dumpshock, is enough to KO the average joe immediately.

[ Spoiler ]

STEALTH SPECIALIST - This runner's primarily an "unorthadox B&E", who likes the "crawl through the ventilation shaft" approach over anything else, such as sweet-talking her way through the door. She's got the unarmed combat capabilities, which, combined with her adept powers and martial arts maneuvers, make it painfully easy for her to one-hit folks, be they aware of her or not. And she also rocks with her SMG.

[ Spoiler ]

FACE - This augmented one is essentially the social equivalent of the infiltrator, listed above. She's the listed owner of the Rover, so it's under here, but she's not generally the driver. She's got this mega-abusive ability where she drops some nerve gas on a room, switches to her internal air tank, and grabs herself some cover, not that she's incapable of defending herself with those kills and that gear, and her social capabilities are second to none.

[ Spoiler ]

Note that most of their gear is froma shared pool of equipment. They're even bunked in to two high lifestyles, chopping the cost nearly in half. This pooled equipment essentially means that although that laes drugs and truth serums and stuff is listed under the stealth specialist, the face is probably the one who'll be using it more.

da Loof

Dec 17 2009, 03:04 AM

...So what does anyone think?

etherial

Dec 17 2009, 04:59 AM

QUOTE (da Loof @ Dec 16 2009, 10:04 PM)

...So what does anyone think?

I think we need more time. Wait 'til everyone's bored at work tomorrow afternoon.

zeborazor

Dec 17 2009, 06:13 AM

At a quick glance it looks pretty well put-together. Better than my party:

Face/Mage Focusing in Manipulation magic, also a pacifist
Martial Artist, Street Sam
And a Rigger/Hacker

toturi

Dec 17 2009, 08:55 AM

QUOTE (da Loof @ Dec 17 2009, 10:01 AM)

A lot of the time, people will post their runner-in-the-works for critiquing. The problem is that you don't get the "bigger picture" - you don't get to see how the runner fits in with the rest of the group. So here, I'm posting all five group members of the Shadowrunning party. Feel free to comment on any or all of them, point out what you like, what could be done better, etc. Discriptions of the runners and their intended niches will accompany the stat blocks.

MAGICIAN - He's an eagle shapeshifter of a self-taught tradition (similar to shamanism). That being said, he tends to specialize in manipulation, but aside from that, he's pretty standard

Note that most of their gear is froma shared pool of equipment. They're even bunked in to two high lifestyles, chopping the cost nearly in half. This pooled equipment essentially means that although that laes drugs and truth serums and stuff is listed under the stealth specialist, the face is probably the one who'll be using it more.

2 quick comments:

1) What tradition is the Magician exactly? Is it a custom tradition? Or is it simply shamanism in all but name?

2) Why is the Face's Essense still 6 with implants?

The more people in the team the more they can specialise and I am all for specialisation and numbercrunching as long as it is done within the rules. But there also needs to be internal consistency between the story and the stats. I noticed that both the melee adept and mage have no contacts (if I missed them out, please out them out to me). So how did they get onto this team in the first place? How did they get their equipment?

da Loof

Dec 17 2009, 05:51 PM

QUOTE (toturi @ Dec 17 2009, 02:55 AM)

2 quick comments:

1) What tradition is the Magician exactly? Is it a custom tradition? Or is it simply shamanism in all but name?

Combat: Guardian
Detection: Water
Health: Plant
Illusion: Task
Manipulation: Air
Drain: Willpower + Charisma

That's the stats of it. It's a self taught-tradition, with tenets remeniscient of Shamanism, where the spirits are actually considered to be Spirits - the task and guardian spirits are supposed to be spirits of powerful ancestors past.

QUOTE

2) Why is the Face's Essense still 6 with implants?

My mistake. It should be 1.15. I'll change that.

QUOTE

The more people in the team the more they can specialise and I am all for specialisation and numbercrunching as long as it is done within the rules. But there also needs to be internal consistency between the story and the stats. I noticed that both the melee adept and mage have no contacts (if I missed them out, please out them out to me). So how did they get onto this team in the first place? How did they get their equipment?

I'm a GM and I like to custom-tailor my campaigns to the players, creating intricate plotlines, etc, that the players are intrinsically involved in. I utilize the players' backstory, anticipating the reactions of the associated players, and so forth. That said, in the Shapeshifter wakes up in a research lab as a test subject, and the melee adept starts out as a not-runner and all of his contacts are gunned down in the beginning of the campaign. They meet up with the face and infiltrator in the campaign.

Dakka Dakka

Dec 17 2009, 06:30 PM

@Melee Adept:
Maybe you should switch LOG and INT. Better Initiative and you don't need logic without logic based skills.

The positive qualities are rather ineffective IMHO:
Guts: there aren't many fear based powers and depending on the background of the character and your playstyle Composure Tests will not come up very often and even then +2 dice normally only add 0,67 extra hits. Maybe exchange it for Ambidexterity

High Pain Tolerance: Ignoring one box of damage may be nice but not that big of a deal, since even without it the first two don't give any modifier anyway. Additionally it is incompatible with Pain Resistance.

Quick Healer: Not bad, but unless the GM imposes some optional or homebrew healing rules, characters heal quick enough

Will to live: This gives the teammates twelve more seconds to stabilize the character when he is dying, hardly worth the bother IMHO.

Adept Powers:
Pain Resistance: See High Pain Tolerance
Improved Ability: I advise you to only take it when and if the natural skill is maximized, since any further improvement is calculated with the augmented skill rating.
Combat Sense: Never bad to have

The Equipment list suggest that you have the Arsenal. How about Marttial Arts?

Any reason why you didn't take the Ingram Smart Gun?

Why does the Motorcycle need Assembly Time Improvement? Do you think to store it in the Rover?

da Loof

Dec 17 2009, 10:06 PM

QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Dec 17 2009, 12:30 PM)

@Melee Adept:
Maybe you should switch LOG and INT. Better Initiative and you don't need logic without logic based skills.

That's a good idea, but the player of that character likes to roleplay and is interested in playing a character of "average intelligence". Oh well.

QUOTE

The positive qualities are rather ineffective IMHO:
Guts: there aren't many fear based powers and depending on the background of the character and your playstyle Composure Tests will not come up very often and even then +2 dice normally only add 0,67 extra hits. Maybe exchange it for Ambidexterity

Very nice idea, will do.

QUOTE

High Pain Tolerance: Ignoring one box of damage may be nice but not that big of a deal, since even without it the first two don't give any modifier anyway. Additionally it is incompatible with Pain Resistance.

In that case, I'll swap out High Pain Tolerance for some type of Martial Arts.

QUOTE

Quick Healer: Not bad, but unless the GM imposes some optional or homebrew healing rules, characters heal quick enough

Hmm, maybe I'll use that extra 10 BP to bring his Intuition up to 3 like you said.

QUOTE

Will to live: This gives the teammates twelve more seconds to stabilize the character when he is dying, hardly worth the bother IMHO.

Good call. I'll get him two maneuvers and 5000 nuyen.

QUOTE

Adept Powers:
Pain Resistance: See High Pain Tolerance
Improved Ability: I advise you to only take it when and if the natural skill is maximized, since any further improvement is calculated with the augmented skill rating.
Combat Sense: Never bad to have

Oh. I never realized that those dice from Combat Sense also went into defense dice. Yes please, I'll scrap Pain Resistance and Improved Ability for Combat Sense 4

QUOTE

The Equipment list suggest that you have the Arsenal. How about Marttial Arts?

Already done. I was thinking Arnis de Mano/Escrima, because that ability to disarm someone and deal damage at the same time is sexy as hell. That means I'd want to take the maneuvers Disarm (obviously), and maybe Two Weapon Style to go with Ambidexterity. Get myself something nice with that extra 5k.

QUOTE

Any reason why you didn't take the Ingram Smart Gun?

What's wrong with the Colt Cobra?

QUOTE

Why does the Motorcycle need Assembly Time Improvement? Do you think to store it in the Rover?

That was the plan.

Dakka Dakka

Dec 17 2009, 10:37 PM

QUOTE (da Loof @ Dec 17 2009, 11:06 PM)

That's a good idea, but the player of that character likes to roleplay and is interested in playing a character of "average intelligence". Oh well.

INT 2 is just as much below average intelligence as LOG 2. The character will just be more challenged by different problems. Cf. SR4A p. 67

QUOTE (da Loof @ Dec 17 2009, 11:06 PM)

What's wrong with the Colt Cobra?

Not wrong but the Smartgun is the best SMG in both books. Period. For the price of the Z-118 you get an Ingram Smartgun X with Gas Vent 2 and Sound Suppressor in addition to the Smartgun System.

@Attributes: If you can scrap together another 10 BP I would raise another Attribute by one. Especially with the increased Cost of SR4A raising attributes later is very expensive. Or if you don't, shift the BPs from Edge to one of the normal Attributes. Raising an attribute to 3 is cheaper than raising it to 4

toturi

Dec 18 2009, 12:23 AM

QUOTE (da Loof @ Dec 18 2009, 01:51 AM)

Combat: Guardian
Detection: Water
Health: Plant
Illusion: Task
Manipulation: Air
Drain: Willpower + Charisma

That's the stats of it. It's a self taught-tradition, with tenets remeniscient of Shamanism, where the spirits are actually considered to be Spirits - the task and guardian spirits are supposed to be spirits of powerful ancestors past.

You allow it, it is ok. Personally I wouldn't but that's probably my Canon bias. Frankly, 3 of the most powerful spirits available as well as a Drain Attribute that an Eagle shifter has a bonus to in addition to the Willpower bonus ring all my alarm bells.

da Loof

Dec 18 2009, 04:01 PM

QUOTE (toturi @ Dec 17 2009, 06:23 PM)

You allow it, it is ok. Personally I wouldn't but that's probably my Canon bias. Frankly, 3 of the most powerful spirits available as well as a Drain Attribute that an Eagle shifter has a bonus to in addition to the Willpower bonus ring all my alarm bells.

That was my original reaction as well, but:

A. It does make sense that a self-taught magician would build off his strengths when working out a tradition - I.E. the dude with an IQ of 80 but more personality than Barack Obama would be far more likely to express his Talent through Charisma than anything else.

B. I'm a stickler about aspected domains, along with mana ebbs, voids, storms, etc., and my magic users get penalties to stuff all the time, so I suppose I can cut him a little slack. Besides, he's in for a tough campaign.

DWC

Dec 18 2009, 04:31 PM

Ditch the grab bag of random SMGs and give everyone an Alpha with a gas vent 3 modification and a sound suppressor accessory. Slap on electronic firing for the primary shooters, and possibly barrel reductions. Replace the hacker's Pistols skill with Automatics with an AR specialization.

Their lack of range and armor penetration make submachineguns a philosophical dead end in a world where body armor is so cheap and so plentiful. In addition, when things go horribly wrong, being able to swipe magazines from the hacker or the mage while they're doing something other than shooting, or from anyone who happens to be already down, will save their lives.

Dakka Dakka

Dec 18 2009, 04:34 PM

Agreed, unless you get ambidexterity and shoot with two SMGs. Double Magazine Capacity and two long bursts, with a bit of modding even recoilless.

da Loof

Dec 18 2009, 04:50 PM

QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Dec 17 2009, 04:37 PM)

INT 2 is just as much below average intelligence as LOG 2. The character will just be more challenged by different problems. Cf. SR4A p. 67

Not wrong but the Smartgun is the best SMG in both books. Period. For the price of the Z-118 you get an Ingram Smartgun X with Gas Vent 2 and Sound Suppressor in addition to the Smartgun System.

Alright, done. I swapped out the Sound Suppressor mod for Additional Clip and Extended Clip, which means I can pop off 13 long bursts per gun (which will be recoilless if I have the stock extended) before reloading.

QUOTE

@Attributes: If you can scrap together another 10 BP I would raise another Attribute by one. Especially with the increased Cost of SR4A raising attributes later is very expensive. Or if you don't, shift the BPs from Edge to one of the normal Attributes. Raising an attribute to 3 is cheaper than raising it to 4

Ok, I changed his metatype to Ork, which is more efficient and essentially allows me to raise his Strength and Body by one. I lowered his Edge to raise his Reaction, and I dumped his Athletics SG to 1 and put that into Strength, because I realized that it's better to raise the linking attribute than the actual skill group, because not only do you get the bonus die for the skill, but for countless other activities which require Strength.

QUOTE (DWC @ Dec 18 2009, 10:31 AM)

Ditch the grab bag of random SMGs and give everyone an Alpha with a gas vent 3 modification and a sound suppressor accessory. Slap on electronic firing for the primary shooters, and possibly barrel reductions. Replace the hacker's Pistols skill with Automatics with an AR specialization.

Their lack of range and armor penetration make submachineguns a philosophical dead end in a world where body armor is so cheap and so plentiful. In addition, when things go horribly wrong, being able to swipe magazines from the hacker or the mage while they're doing something other than shooting, or from anyone who happens to be already down, will save their lives.

The SMG idea was made earlier, when the biggest turnoff for me was their zero concealability. But nowadays, we're wearing body armor and full face masks anyway, so I'll make that change where applicable.

QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Dec 18 2009, 10:34 AM)

Agreed, unless you get ambidexterity and shoot with two SMGs. Double Magazine Capacity and two long bursts, with a bit of modding even recoilless.

Yes, WHERE APPLICABLE. I was just going to point something like this out to DWC, but Dakka took the proverbial words out of my... keyboard.

DWC

Dec 18 2009, 05:02 PM

QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Dec 18 2009, 11:34 AM)

Agreed, unless you get ambidexterity and shoot with two SMGs. Double Magazine Capacity and two long bursts, with a bit of modding even recoilless.

None of that changes that an SMG is useless against someone 200 meters away from you, who's calmly looking at you through his optic, smashing you with assault rifle rounds.

da Loof

Dec 18 2009, 06:06 PM

QUOTE (DWC @ Dec 18 2009, 11:02 AM)

None of that changes that an SMG is useless against someone 200 meters away from you, who's calmly looking at you through his optic, smashing you with assault rifle rounds.

True, but this Group Synergy thing means that there will generally be a few of your buddies around to with AR's of their own. SMG man can always take cover anyway