Okay, I mentioned half-seriously to someone I was missing Gargoyles in RC and he said: "Well, just create 'em." - And so I did.

I was wondering if that's just a fancy idea or a playable concept. Maybe one could do some fine tuning.

Gargoyle: 70 BP

B: 5/10
A: 1/5
R: 1/6
S: 5/10
C: 1/4
I: 1/5
L: 1/4
W: 2/7

E: 1/5
M: 1/6

Ini Passes: 2

Powers: Sapience, Shift (Stone), Enhanced Senses (Astral Sight), Guard, Magical Gurad, Hardened and Mystical Armor (4), Natural Weapons (Bite, Claws)

Weaknesses: Uneducated, Vulnerability (Ferrous Metal)

Gargoyles use their normal walking rate when flying and twice their walking rate when nosediving.

---

PS: I haven't read RW yet.

PPS: Of course no ware below delta grade for Gargoyles.

Ask Bull, he did some Stats for them, if i remember correctly.

Isn't this just a flying troll?

In any event, shouldn't their Vulnerability be for Sunlight, and while in Stone form they become "immune" to sunlight, but at the drawback of being completely unable to do anything? Like, as per Stone to Flesh + Immune (Sunlight)?

Why Guard, Magical Guard, Astral Sight, and Mystic Armor?

Was the Gargoyle in previous editions at all or are we completely working from scratch here? I have to agree with the 'flying troll' feel that this has to it.

One of the questions you have to ask is what kind of Gargoyle are you trying to emulate here. Are you trying to replicate the old cartoon show Gargoyles, the D&D style stone Gargoyles, or the Gargoyles that the statues are trying to emulate? Right now it sounds like you have a mix of the first two thanks to their troll-like physique and their hardened armor.

That show was awesome (ok, the third season had different writers and sucked), so I in no way object to having something like that in ShadowRun.

Reminds me that I tried to play something like GeeKeR once--well, an unhinged technomancer.

Hey, could we get Noah* too?

*Lady McBeth has the cyber arm. GeeKeR looks like a cartoon.** Noah is the one in green.

**He has four fingers and thinks that if he can manage to grow a 5th (his body is rather malleable) he could "be like normal people."

Oh, and why only delta cyber for Gargoyles? It is only creatures with regeneration that need that. Odd creatures like pixies just have to pay double or something like that I think.

in general, most critters need what is functionally delta-grade cyberware.

this is because there is no "off the shelf" 'ware for them, generally speaking; nobody makes it, so if it's going to be made, it pretty much involves customising the 'ware to the specific critter... because there is no "generic gargoyle" data or "generic sasquatch" data. with metahumans, you've got a huge market of hundreds of thousands for even the rarer metatypes usually. there's a large store of data on what implants for those races should be like, and it's financially viable to mass-produce at least common implants for them.

in comparison, there likely hasn't been much research, if any, when it comes to implants for most critters. perhaps the most basic kinds for some security critters, but usually, it has to be tailor made for you because your data is the only data available. and of course, that is the very definition of deltaware: cyberware that is specifically custom-made for you.

[edit] to clarify, i'm not saying that there *can't* be basic grade 'ware for gargoyles. i'm saying that it just most likely doesn't exist (yet). if some corporation were to decide to implant cybereyes and an internal commlink in a few thousand gargoyles, then they would quite possibly develop standard-grade 'ware for it, although that would remove the astral sight, guard, and magical guard from most gargoyles that are not otherwise awakened (ie adept, mystic adept, or magician qualities) [/edit]

Bull has done a good job at getting the gargoyles from the TV-Series(which seriously rocked) into shadowrun with his approach, but i will be damned if i can find that again <.<

OK, lets see how close we can come to a playable gargoyle per raw.

Lets start off using the Ork rather than a Troll. Still big and burly, but not as expensive.

20BP and we get +3Bod, +2STR and -1CHAR and -1LOG. And low light vision.

15BP for a Class III Surge:
Positives: Granite Skin (15pts), Astral Sight (5pts), Setae (10pts)
Negatives: Nocturnal (10pts), Vestigial Tail (5pt)

OK other Qualities:
Camouflage (5pt version)

OK so we have what I consider the highlights of a gargoyle. He is big and strong, rock hard skin, blends in with his environment and is able to move around great heights with ease and is nocturnal.

What were missing is flight (hell even gliding is hard to get of as a PC, even Pixes technically don't have a flight power). That could be overcome with a spell knack for leveitate or a flight spell or something like that.

And at least it is still playable. Still have 10pt for positive qualities.

That's an interesting take.. Take Spell Knack (Levitate), further restricted to be Self Only, and Vestigal Wings.

I was thinking that would be a good route. Its tricky working out a custom spell before play so I was leaning away from it. I'm sure a GM would allow you to trade Vestigial Wings for Vestigial Tail as well.

The funny thing is that you can use the same qualities "template" to make just about any race a gargoyle. Even though I think that any changling with Granite Skin would be considered a "gargoyle" by most of Metahumanity.

*Blork*

PM me if you find that, I'd love to see it.

Me too

(Oh god! A dreaded Mee Two Post!)

These are in 3rd Edition stats still. At some point I'll pdate them. Really I will!

http://bull.dumpshock.com/gargoyle.html

And this this was a fairly mediocre story that I started to go along with it. The Mage that shows up is an old character of mine, and was kind of a Coda to his story when I retired him. The Gargoyle Clan was intentionally similar to the "New York Clan" that was used in the show, and the elf that shows up in the story, Green Demon, was going to turn out to be Loki, who was going to be a more malicious and evil version of Puck.

http://bull.dumpshock.com/garg1.html

Bull

As discussed earlier Granite Skin does not give the effect from the TV series or Folklore. Even a hold-out pistol is only marginally less dangerous to a "Gargoyle" than to a normal Metahuman.

Also, don't at least some gargoyles have functional tails?

if you mean functional as in they help them keep their balance and steering in mid air and can be more or less used as a club, yes, functional tails are included with about 80 to 90% of the disney gargoye population.
*looks up*
ah, the bull storms in and saves the thread ^^

Heh, thanks Stahl, but it's just one take on the idea, and doesn't exactly mesh with what Shadowrun has done with Gargoyles. Of course, SR gargoyles aren't even semi-sapient, like the Merrow or Sasquatch, so you're making wholesale changes to create a Gargoyle race anyways

Bull

P.S. As a side note, one of ideas I proposed for YotC, for the "New Metahumans" parallel to the Awakening, was actually Sentient Gargoyles. Not these though. THe idea was actually simpler: That many of the Gargoyles were fashioned from Liferocks, and when the mana level spiked, a bunch of Obsidimen from Earthdawn found that they had new forms. And the Notre Dame was shy some statuary

Bull

Mostly, yes. Maybe - as mentioned below - Orc attributes might fit better.



I took the vulnerability from SR3 'Critters'. Bad thing, most bullets have a metal core.



Because Gargoyles are meant to protect from evil forces.



Actually the idea were the stone ones on the rooftops. Hence the Guard powers.



"Sapient critters can only accept deltaware bioware and cyberware implants,..." (RC, p.85)



I'm not looking for a surgred pseudo-gargoyle but a sapient critter. But working from the Orc's stats sounds good.



I have to take a look at this.



Gargoyles might just be an Obsidianmen Metavariant.

bwahahahaaha, i dig ^^
You know, you should sit down with bobby some time and talk about all such crazy shit . .
i guess that would be one of the best things to ever happen to shadowrun with you two crazy farts sparking ideas like that ^^

Thread-Necromancy! I compared Pixie(RC)-Pixie(RW) and Vampire(RC)-Vampire(SR4A) and the Sasquatches as well, then I tried to build the Gargoyle considering its Running Wild template:

Gargoyle: ?? BP 100?

B: 6/11 They have bod 10, but that has to be balanced down
A: 1/6 2/7 would be consistent, but no reason for it, really
R: 3/8 this is consistent, but might be unbalanced
S: 6/11 see bod
C: 1/3 maybe 1/4
I: 1/5
L: 1/3 maybe 1/4
W: 1/6

E: 1/5
M: 1/6

Ini Passes: 2

Powers: Sapience, Hardened Armor (10), Enhanced Senses (Lowlight Vision), Natural Weapons (Bite, Claws), Concealment (Self), Noxious Breath

Weaknesses: Allergy (Sunlight, Mild), Vulnerability (Ferrous Metal) No Uneducated, Uncouth, as they grow up in cities close to metahumanity

Walking rate: Human
Flying rate: 20/50

Why not tie their hardened armor to their magic rating per Immunity to Normal Weapons?

Because this would make the Power either ridculous or overpowered. Unless the Creature is otherwise awakened, it would get Hardened Armor of 2/2, which is pierced by any attack, except for the STR1 guy hitting with 1 net hit. On the other hand a gagoyle with MAG 6 and Hardened Armor 12 would be very resilient.

that works for chars out of chargen. but once I start increasing magic it gets frightening

Because of [very valid reason stated above] which is why drakes don't get it either.

also, stone is stone and not depending on magic...

anybody wanna try and comment on the attributes and BP cost?

First of all as I was about to type this message, I realized Eathdawn has the worst abbreviation of any game system.

Anyway, especially through the early books of Shadowrun and I think earthdawn as well, Gargoyles have always been a highly variable bunch. There isn't just one type.

Therefore if you want to make a sapient non-obsidimen variety, I think you have reason enough to just bust out and do what plays well. Since they're elementalish you've got a lot of room to play.

When it comes to game balance, I think the first question is if the suckers are allowed to be adepts and mages, and if they have any restrictions on using modified gear. I would think both would be allowed, and so you if you use Makki's numbers you might want to charge even more than 100 BP

Ok. Bod +7 Str +7 AGI +1 Rea +2 Cha -2 Int +1 Log -1 Will +1 = net +16. Gain "Flight", limited to deltaware, automatic distinct style. I would go out and say that even the unreduced statline is not a steal at 100 BP. A few Body dice are not worth being the fire magnet.


Ini Passes 2, cool. Hardened Armor 10 is too much - assume SR gargoyles to carry armor on top. I`d suggest Hardened Armor 4 (giving said amount to Drakes, too).
Uncouth I would allow, as they might play the "silent observer" part till it hurts, but fail to realise that metahumans do NOT objectivly observe what they do. In most cases.

How do you get a +7 with BOD of 6/11? Assuming that 1/6 is +0, I'd say 6/11 is +5. CHA and LOG should be -3 or -2 depending on whtether they're 1/3 or 1/4. INT at -1.


Hardened armor is very tricky as it is mostly worthless or very powerful. I think non-hardened armor combined with regeneration would be more interesting. So the gargoyle would have to roll all the time (just like drakes), but still is more resilient than the average human.

Looking at the RW gargoyle from a base-3 statline.

Looking at the RW gargoyle from a base-3 statline.

what about Hardenend Armor 10, incompatible with worn armor. That's how SURGE Armor (Granite Shell & Rhino Hide) works after all.
ofc nobody is forbidden to take Uncouth. But they shouldn't get it integral to their species like Centaurs do.

On Oncouth: I didn´t get your meaning. Not integral instead of forbidden is ok.

Forbidden layering does not make sense IMO. Useable armor would be custom-made, but easily so. And an extra shell should reduce damage. What about Hardened 6 (layering allowed)? Deflects most small arms attacks on it´s own, an average DV-2 against the attacks with DV>6.

just stumbled over the Cygoyle in War!. A Gargoyle Biodrone oO
and ofc, being War!, inconsistency is its greatest feature: Hardened Armor 6

at least now we know a Gargoles cost: Cygoyle minus 'ware = 210k
also, the Essence was calculated wrong, while the magic is correct -.-

Edit:
Just thought about it. Cygoyle has Magic 3. So they might actually have Hardened Armor (Magic x2)

The Gargoyles TV show could so fit right into the Shadowrun universe.

Xanatos as a head of one of the Megacorps.




-k

*Nods* ^^

Show even had magic. Which could be countered by technology (simply because Energy is Energy, regardless of where it originates).