So if I specialize in Detection spells and have a Mentor Spirit that provides a bonus to Manipulation spells, how do these scenarios work out:

1) I cast Levitate on myself and someone else at the same time. Do I get 2 extra dice for each casting, or just 2 extra dice for the entire pool?

2) I cast Armor and Analyze Device at the same time. Do I get 2 extra dice for each casting, or just 2 extra dice for the entire pool?

3) For the bonus from a Mentor Spirit, it applies only to casting the spell, not countering or drain?

I'm using SR4A and Street Magic. Thanks for your help.

Modifiers to Spellcasting dicepool are applied in step 4 of the Spellcasting process.

You split your base pool for casting multiple spells in step 3.

Q.E.D.

(SR4A p183)

You start with Spellcasting skill plus Magic stat. You split that pool however you like between separate spells. You then add whatever modifiers that are relevant to each pool. Specialization, Totem, Foci, whatever it all gets added or subtracted in step 4 after you have split the pool.

What? That sounds horribly broken. That would mean that if I have 3 casting and 5 magic and the manabolt spell with a specialization and a power focus at force 4 that I can cast 4 force 5 manabolts with 8 dice each, for 20 stun damage. Most mages can't reliably stand up against 8 spellcasting dice, let alone 4 times, and a mundane's head just explodes right there.

Casting multiple spells adds a drain modifier of +1 per additional spell. In your example, the casting mage would have to resist an additional 3 DV (total of 5 DV for a Force 5 Manabolt) of whatever appropriate damage, resisting this drain 4 times (casting 4 spells). Your example also doesn't work because the maximum number of spells that you can cast in a single Complex Action is equal to the Spellcasting skill, but this is a simple measure of prorating the skill upward in your example. This is base skill and doesn't take into account Specialization bonuses (as listed on SR4A p118,121).

The step 4 in the Spellcasting test specifically says "modified by Foci, totem bonuses, bound spirits, and/or Visibility Modifiers." It doesn't mention specialization bonus dice. Still, assuming they mean all bonus dice in that step, it does seem overpowered at first glance.

This is why I never, ever take Ball spells. Bolt is much more useful overall, and can be used on multiple targets at need.

Huh. So there *is* a Magic Missile equivalent. My NPC mage is going to have an *excellent* time with this.

Stunbolt is the single most useful direct-damage spell in the game for most situations. It disrupts spirits, it knocks out sec guards (whose WIL is generally lower than their BOD) and trolls (whose WIL is almost certainly higher than their bod) alike, and it's lower drain than the physical-damage manabolt. It doesn't affect drones, but with 5 DR, who'd be crazy enough to bolt a drone anyway? That's what spirits are for, after all ^_^

i'm not sure what kind of mages you run in your group, but most that i've seen will have at least 4 skill in counterspelling, plus potentially a specialisation in combat spells, plus a potential counterspelling focus. note that your targets will get their full dice pool to resist each spell.

so if your targets have 3 dice from attribute, and 4 dice from a counterspelling magician... well, 7 dice is not as much as 8, but odds are good at least 1-2 of those spells will fail. if we assume your target has above-average attributes (say, 5) and give the defending mage a specialisation in counterspelling and a counterspelling focus (and let's not forget a shielding focus plus shielding metamagic as a possibility), it's pretty good odds none of the spells will get through. also, negative modifiers will also get added in the last stage; background count, for example, and visibility modifiers, for another example.

i don't see it being a huge problem.

You can't cast 4 manabolts with only 3 spellcasting. The max number of spells you can cast in one Complex action is equal to your spellcasting skill. 183 sr4a.

The really terrible thing is a cybered dwarf (Log 5(7), Will 7), with stunbolt as a limited spell, a mentor spirit, power focus 4, and a specialization in combat spells; spellcasting 6 and magic 5.

He can cast Six stun bolts, each with F/2 + 4 drain, a dicepool for each 10 dice, except the last one, which is only 9. And he has 16 dice to resist each one with. At Force 5, he's looking at 6 drain each. On average, he takes one stun from each, but he has a fairly good chance of taking no stun. And since he's cybered, he may as well have a pain editor for that extra willpower (giving him a drain pool of 17) and the ability to ignore stun for the purpose of injury modifiers/passing out. So yeah, he's doing at least 36 points of stun damage (force 5 + 1 net hit * 6) and not feeling anything from it. In 1 initiative pass.

He can do the same thing with Stunball, but there he's usually going to take some damage. Of course, when you wipe out a room full of guards/spirits/anything without super counter spelling, it hardly matters.

We can also give him a couple of ranks in Focused concentration too, if we're feeling especially min-maxy. Or take exceptional skill in spellcasting, to give him that 7th stunbolt. Who needs a street sam? We have Mr. Sandman on our team.

*or* you can get a gun with full auto and stick-n-shock rounds (and use suppressive fire), and not take *any* drain, which means that when you get hit for a few points of stun later, you don't risk death. crazy, no?. or, we can go even crazier and just chuck a flashbang grenade. or a pepper punch grenade. there are many superior ways of hurting large numbers of people, many of which have a better chance of success.

also, the stunball is not particularly likely to cause as much drain (it's only 1 point of drain more) and if there is any decent counterspelling (for example a supporting spirit or critter with magical guard), half of those stunbolts will fail.

flashbang and pepper punch can resisted with mundane tools, no?

Risking death a few points of stun later? You have the whole Physical damage track to go through still, and that's what the Heal spell is for (takes seconds) and Medkits (not much longer). As to your other points:

Full auto + stick n shock: Suppressive Fire isn't very good at hitting things, or doing much damage. Full auto, you have a better chance at hitting someone, but at one complex action we're still just looking at either 1. 6s + net hits - damage resistance roll for that imitative pass - Good luck getting more than 10 stun that way against anyone competent; or 2. 15s + net hits - damage resistance. This is better, but still doesn't reach the mages capabilities.

Flashbang Grenade: Net hits don't add to damage for grenades (they reduce scatter) so the best you're doing, ever, is 12s, with each grenade being resisted separately.

Pepper Punch: Power 7 is not that great, and again, see Flashbang for grenade drawback. The real nice thing about PP is the Nausea effect; however, it takes a full Combat Turn to have any effect, damage or no. So, yeah, pepper punch fails pretty hard in that respect. I'd use it in the last IP.

Stunball: It's actually 2 more drain; F/2 + 1 v. F/2 -1.

Anything that survives a mage hitting them with 7 stunbolts either has counterspelling out the ass or is likely sitting in a friendly aspected mana static. Everything else stands no chance.

2 more drain resisted once is still less likely to wind up bad than the drain rolled 6 or 7 times.

and the stick-n-shock doesn't just do stun damage. it also has a pretty good chance of stunning your target for 2+ combat turns... and if you can't think of all kinds of ways to take advantage of 2+ turns of helpless opponents, well, you probably shouldn't be a shadowrunner.

and suppressive fire is in fact quite likely to hit in general, especially the mooks you're likely to be targeting those 9 DP stunbolts at. the attacker gets his full attack dicepool, the defender gets reaction (probably decent but often not amazing) + edge (most enemies have none) + dodge if on full defense (to be fair, gymnastics should probably also be an option, but isn't listed)

then, everyone hit has to make a bod + wil + 1/2 impact armor (3) test or they're down. for at minimum 2 turns. well, 3 really... it's 2 + net hits on the attack roll (note: the attack roll for suppressive fire is a success test). even if they succeed, they take a penalty to attack in addition to any penalties from the damage.

and if you're worried about hitting allies, there are in fact ways to shoot suppressive fire into an area and not risk hitting a friend thanks to smartgun technology.

Body + Willpower + 1/2 Impact is fairly likely to be at least 9 dice, at least against anyone worth using stick n shock against. Only if you're very lucky will they be incapacitated.

The rules for suppressive fire and SnS don't really mesh to well. Suppressive fire is explicit in stating that net hits don't add to damage; but then you want to turn around and claim that net hits should add to the time spent incapacitated? That seems like a loophole more than anything.

As for enemies not having Edge, groups will usually have an edge pool (or at least, in my campaigns). Not sure how I would apply a group's edge pool to suppressive fire, as it hasn't come up yet.

Please, enlighten me with your smartgun tech strategy in regards to supressive fire.

And last: If I really want to take out the opposition, I'll just cast 3 or so stunballs. It works out to be about 12 dice per roll, which will work against anything that doesn't have beaucoup counterspell protection.

also, 9 dice will only generate 3 hits on *average*, not every time. one guy will roll 6 hits on his test, another guy will roll 0. (or any number of variations thereof).

also, it doesn't really *need* net hits to add to stun duration... 2 rounds of inability to act is a *long* time. 2 + net hits is overkill, but likely not needed overkill.

and 3 stunballs is still likely to cause drain. as it starts building up it can incapacitate you or, if you have the right mods, it can 'only' start overflowing into your physical damage track. it is, however, at least a better idea than the 6-7 stunbolts idea, if only because it's at least somewhat likely to take effect against properly protected targets provided there are no negative modifiers.