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MadDogMike
While there are rules for giving those SINless shadowrunners fake paperwork to wave at the nice Lone Star officer to prove it's perfectly OK they're toting around Wired Reflexes III and an assault rifle, it's not clear what (if any) requirements there are for characters to get restricted gear under a legitimate SIN, either if they have the SINner quality or you're playing a legit characters campaign. If somebody wanted to have a legal pistol or PI license, how would you cost it for them? Charge money, require them to get a Quality, just let them claim it as part of their identity?

I'm assuming legitimate gear would be easy to track obviously (being directly linked to your ID), and maybe you'd have to broadcast it in high security zones (either from your commlink or possibly directly from the item in question; I can see the wireless in weapons being used to send out your permit info to law enforcement as you walk around a AAA neighborhood), but can you think of any other in-game limitations that might apply? I presume generally loose permits given at least one megacorp would gleefully push to make it easy, and of course violent crime levels being rather high; I seem to recall one old reference saying a substantial portion of people in Seattle owned guns thanks to all the gangers and whatnot. Or, come to think of it, with some of the nasty critters out there having a machine gun might actually be vital to wilderness survival.

And on a side note that applies to legal and illegal permits, how broadly do you allow permits to be defined? I've seen sample characters where their permits are listed specific to each weapon; do you do it that way, or is it possible to have a generic pistol/rifle/etc. permit like modern US gun laws? Or just have a generic "gun" permit, for that matter.
Summerstorm
If they are really Sinners... i give them all they need for their Job. Getting a permit shouldn't cost that much for most things. A hundred here and there. And "Sinner" is a huge drawback (for a shadowrunner only, of course... or anyone who want to be free of Spam-Mails). Things like Pistol and Drivers License and such i would give for free. Others like: Security Grade Reflex enhancing Cyberware should be payed by the employer for you. Or if you still have it after you got out of service, maybe a fee of a few hundreds a year.

The thing is: If you are a Corp-Citizen you could even have a "permit" for military grade and forbidden equipment... Thing is: Many other corps and countires can and WILL just deny you entrance. Also you WILL have a stable job for that (which won't be very safe and highly regulated... so no freelancing or free thinking allowed)
Rotbart van Dainig
QUOTE (MadDogMike @ Jan 11 2010, 10:53 AM) *
And on a side note that applies to legal and illegal permits, how broadly do you allow permits to be defined? I've seen sample characters where their permits are listed specific to each weapon; do you do it that way, or is it possible to have a generic pistol/rifle/etc. permit like modern US gun laws? Or just have a generic "gun" permit, for that matter.

SR4A speaks of a "firearms licence" as example, going on that you need a "concealed carry licence", too.

So basically, while licences are broad you still need about four to carry a loaded Warhawk with Smartlink on you (Firearms, Ammunition, Accessories, Concealed Carry).
Sengir
QUOTE (MadDogMike @ Jan 11 2010, 09:53 AM) *
Or, come to think of it, with some of the nasty critters out there having a machine gun might actually be vital to wilderness survival.

One of my lesser-used characters actually owns a fully licensed White Knight. Officially he works as a freelance consultant for everything that involves NBC or magically contaminated areas (did I mention his street name is Strelok? wink.gif), so he has legal access to the gear needed to survive there.
Our system is modelled slightly after the German gun law, so he needs to come up with a good reason why he needs that stuff and then can use it for his profession, but not carry a loaded MG on the bus.
Thanee
QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ Jan 11 2010, 11:06 AM) *
So basically, while licences are broad you still need about four to carry a loaded Warhawk with Smartlink on you (Firearms, Ammunition, Accessories, Concealed Carry).


It seems a bit silly to need a different license for a firearm and its ammunition... maybe for special ammo, but standard rounds?

Bye
Thanee
Smokeskin
Civilians can get permits for all SA/SS Pistols and Longarms, as long as they are not convicted criminals. Carry licenses are only available for pistols. Longarms are only for home defense and recreational purposes - you can transport them to and from the gun range, hunting grounds etc.

Most security and military personnel won't get any licenses to even possess their weapons when off duty - their weapons are stored in an armory. The few who do have licenses as needed, which may include a license to have full tactical kit and automatic weapons in their car for fast response, but this is very rare. Unless they have a Day Job as a high level government agent with a good reason to need an SMG while off duty, forget about bringing it home with you.

I allow for SA versions of automatics that you can own for recreational purposes - if the runners choose to restore the BF/FA functionality, that will take a thorough inspection (hacking the gun's software or disassembling the weapon to look at the trigger mechanism - weapons with mechanical fire selection can also be exposed by shooting off some rounds while fiddling with the fire selector).

Cops aren't stupid (or rather, even stupid cops have a great deal of experience with how and what scumbags try to get away with it). A routine stop in an area where you could conceivably be on your way to the shooting range, you're not going to be in much risk. Act suspicious downtown with a supposedly legal and licensed SA assault rifle in the trunk, and you're probably better off passing a credstick than your license to the officer.

I don't have legal weapons broadcast their presence or anything like that. Criminals won't broadcast, and it will let criminals spot who is carrying and make them targets. Need a gun, whack someone with a gun on the head. About to rob a store, better start by shooting the armed customers.

SINners can get fake licenses fitting their SIN as easily as for a fake SIN. The problems for SINners are if they get busted, the forgery and illegal possession charges stick to their SINs, and the fake license might be spotted more easily (if you get pulled over with a fake counter-terrorism first responder's automatics license and the officer notices your SIN says you're working part time in Radio Shack, he's going to get a bit suspicious). There's no reason why SINners should be using fake licenses linked to their real SIN though, they should keep fake SINs to use for criminal activities anyway.

Under the above, I don't think there's any need for special Qualities for SINners to get licenses.
MikeKozar
Pretty sure this is a GM call; my gut reflex is to charge them for an R6 'fake' license (I've seen how permitting works in 2010 and that's a bargain) and let them list it as legal to their SIN. Good points were made above about that not being a free pass - remember that most places get to set their own laws about stuff like that, and even if they don't try and arrest you, they don't have to let you in if they think you're hinky.

I'm also remembering the first chapter of Stephenson's Diamond Age - a wannabe gets a popular nanotech gun installed in his forehead, smartlinked to his glasses. He winds up using it on a citizen of a powerful organization (think megacorp) during a robbery, blowing a huge chunk out of his arm when the victim wouldn't cooperate. He takes off and realizes he's a marked man - the corp comes after him, shrink wraps him, and dumps him in front of a judge. He's presented with a security camera feed and drone logs, as well as nanotech evidence showing that the victim is carrying the unique ID tags released by the weapon when it was fired, which are also present in the headgun in unused rounds and on the shooters' clothing. It was a short trial.

What interests me there is the idea that legal weapons may be incredibly difficult to use in a crime - in the age of nanotech, filing off a serial number might not be enough to keep it from being traced back to you. Even something as passive as bone lacing could have your SIN engraved next to the body shop licence and service number.

This all comes back around to GM call - if you want to allow legal licenses, cool. If you want to penalize legal gear, cool. Just make sure you and your players are on the same page before you start.
DireRadiant
In my games a SINNER has all the licenses they need for free. This still doesn't mean the PC might not want a fake license for a certain piece of gear. That they would need to pay for.
Sengir
QUOTE (MikeKozar @ Jan 11 2010, 02:31 PM) *
What interests me there is the idea that legal weapons may be incredibly difficult to use in a crime - in the age of nanotech, filing off a serial number might not be enough to keep it from being traced back to you. Even something as passive as bone lacing could have your SIN engraved next to the body shop licence and service number.

Many of the things runners do should be easily traceable in a world of nanotech and magic. But nobody wants to spend 2/3 of a run scrubbing the scene of any evidence (without leaving any more in the process), so in all games I played this gets handwaved away unless somebody leaves blantantly obvious traces.
Draco18s
QUOTE (DireRadiant @ Jan 11 2010, 09:01 AM) *
This still doesn't mean the PC might not want a fake license for a certain piece of gear. That they would need to pay for.


Yes, officer, this is my gun. And those are my bullets. And that's a dead guy. What of it?

(Some things are just not cool to have on your record)
Smokeskin
QUOTE (Sengir @ Jan 11 2010, 03:24 PM) *
Many of the things runners do should be easily traceable in a world of nanotech and magic. But nobody wants to spend 2/3 of a run scrubbing the scene of any evidence (without leaving any more in the process), so in all games I played this gets handwaved away unless somebody leaves blantantly obvious traces.


Runners apply nanofilm all over that keeps hold of dead skin cells and hairs until they wash down with a special soap that dissolves the film. They inject themselves with an artificial virus which remains dormant in the blood until activated by contact with free oxygen, which makes it scramble DNA - probably in the blood splatter left behind. They run a special activesoft that alters their gait so it can't be identified, a nanopaste disguise alter their features. They modulate their voice and mask their fingerprints.

It is just the basic counter-surveillance kit, and players don't need to mention it anymore than they mention their characters put on underwear in the morning.

kzt
QUOTE (Smokeskin @ Jan 11 2010, 05:22 AM) *
Unless they have a Day Job as a high level government agent with a good reason to need an SMG while off duty, forget about bringing it home with you.

In the US FBI agents get issued a Glock, and MP5 when they graduate, and get a car to carry it around in. The cops around here take their patrol car home with them with their shotgun or semi-auto rifle, the SWAT guys have machineguns locked up in the SUV they take home. But the military does tend to kind of frown on people taking their M249 or Javelin home with them.
Sengir
QUOTE (Smokeskin @ Jan 11 2010, 05:56 PM) *
Runners apply nanofilm all over that keeps hold of dead skin cells and hairs until they wash down with a special soap that dissolves the film. They inject themselves with an artificial virus which remains dormant in the blood until activated by contact with free oxygen, which makes it scramble DNA - probably in the blood splatter left behind.

That alone costs 45k nuyen.gif ...
etherial
I generally make real licenses cost the same as the fake ones.
EKBT81
QUOTE (MadDogMike @ Jan 11 2010, 09:53 AM) *
And on a side note that applies to legal and illegal permits, how broadly do you allow permits to be defined? I've seen sample characters where their permits are listed specific to each weapon; do you do it that way, or is it possible to have a generic pistol/rifle/etc. permit like modern US gun laws? Or just have a generic "gun" permit, for that matter.


I prefer more generic firearms licences. Licences for individual firearms are too much micro-management for my taste.

However I'd also try to include regional differences: Firearms licence in the CAS - basically issued at birth. Firearms licence in Britain or Japan - not a chance for the average person.

For a campaign set in America I'd base the legalities on modern US gun laws:

-The second amendment remains in place in the UCAS and CAS, so you've basically already got your licence to own firearms as long as you are a SINner without a criminal record. This would include SA and SS handguns, longarms and semi-automatic versions of automatics (like today's AR15) and respective ammunition.
-Concealed Carry licence: available to any SINner without a criminal record, confers the right to carry concealed any handgun you legally own.
-NFA-regulated arms and accessories would require a licence for their specific category (machine guns, suppressors, etc...). Here I'm already simplifying quite a bit. AFAIK today you'd have to apply separately for every individual NFA item.

For ease of play, I'd also gloss over today's local and state level differences in legislation. So I'd not include local gun bans (like in today's Chicago) unless it's central to the scenario (like New York or San Francisco). I'd also assume reciprocity for CCW licences between all states of the UCAS (same for reciprocity between CAS states).
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