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lonewolf23k
Read the "Teleportation" thread, and it got me thinking. Teleportation must be a pretty important part of Megacorp and Government research into Magic and Spellcraft. But I can imagine a lot of other research projects being funded by Megacorps seeking the next big thing in Magic.

-Time Control: More then just time travel; imagine being able to keep items and creatures in stasis, or accelerating time to reduce nuclear waste to lead?

-Immortality: Since you can't take it with you, I imagine a lot of wealthy people want to keep enjoying their wealth forever.

-Raising the Dead: Same reasons as with Immortality.

-Preserving Spirits in full-body cyborgs: getting there with Cyber-Zombies, but still needs work.

Any other Holy Grails you can think of?
Stahlseele
Binding Focus to non Magical People so they get the full Advantage.
Finding out what makes mages mages and mass manufacture mages.
Ancient History
Penguin generator.
MatrixJargon
Understanding Technomancy

I know I know, it's supposedly not magic. But I think it's got to have SOME connection, it's way too similar. Complex forms, fading, sprites, resonance, essence loss effects. At very least, some of the Corps have to follow my line of thinking.
Karoline
I'd think that immortality would be a lesser concern with magical research since there is already a technological equivalent.

As for time control... well there is already a stasis spell as I recall, so there might already some breakthroughs in slowing/speeding up time.

I'd imagine that FTL travel would be a possible area or research. Magic can create force, so it might be able to push an object already traveling fast past the speed of light.

Reaching 0K would likely be another area of interest.

Tons of research would go into the chemistry applications of magic. If magic could cause certain chemical reactions to happen faster or with higher yield, they could be worth billions, as well as allow for all kinds of things that would be amazingly difficult or even impossible otherwise.

I'm sure the creation of life or even just food would be big as well. Think how much easier it would be to colonize a planet if you could just bring a handful of mages to make food/water/energy/everything needed to sustain a colony.
Heath Robinson
  • Duplication of the effects of the Wealth power (i.e. creating solid matter from mana)
  • Decoding the means by which Free Spirits became free
  • Techniques for the reliable subjugation of a Free Spirit
  • Methods to force a Free Spirit to obtain particular powers
  • The mechanics of Astral Form
  • Manasphere control
  • Artificial mana generators
Tanegar
QUOTE (Heath Robinson @ Jan 22 2010, 05:40 PM) *
  • Artificial mana generators

This. Anybody with an interest in using magic in space is researching this. Because space is a mana void, if you can build (or grow - biotech may be key here, given that mana comes from living things) a widget to create a local mana field, suddenly whole new vistas of endeavor open up.

[edit] Also, longer-term, preserving the ability to use magic through the low-mana cycle. Screw the Long Count, we have SCIENCE!
Stahlseele
Well, there was the CREATE FOOD Spell in SR3. Basically, going from this, you can have a Wealth-Power like spell.
You just need to find out what you need to change so you don't get icky yucky but filling gruel and instead get wealth.
Karoline
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Jan 22 2010, 05:52 PM) *
Well, there was the CREATE FOOD Spell in SR3. Basically, going from this, you can have a Wealth-Power like spell.
You just need to find out what you need to change so you don't get icky yucky but filling gruel and instead get wealth.


Hmm, interesting...

Edit: Could the mage create any kind of food she wanted, or was it the standard "It's food, I swear!" quality stuff?
Stahlseele
It was the standard. But text said additional hits could be used to improve quality of the food. So technically i guess you could create anything foodwise with that one spell if you have enough hits.
Hmm, wonder if this could remedy the ghoul/wendigo problem? probably not.
Also, there was another two spells in this area. one was sustenance, which basically fed you pure mana, but still left you hungry.
And another that made you feel full but did not actually prove sustenance. So without ever feeling hungry and without eating, you would starve after some time.
lonewolf23k
So if you had both spells, you could live off of Mana and never feel hungry.
Stahlseele
basically.
but why would you do that, if you could magic yourself some ACTUAL FOOD no matter how tasteless, that will keep you both fed and feeling full?
Heath Robinson
In SR4 there is the Nutrition spell from Street Magic that feeds you off Mana (each hit equates to a meal iirc). It makes no mention of whether you continue to feel hungry or not, though.
Stahlseele
Wonder if you could force feed someone with these spells?
Also wonder if the spell dissipates after casting, but the effect(not hungry) stays?
If so, cast at someone regularly and they simply starve. no evidence O.o
Hagga
QUOTE (Karoline @ Jan 22 2010, 11:40 PM) *
I'd think that immortality would be a lesser concern with magical research since there is already a technological equivalent.

As for time control... well there is already a stasis spell as I recall, so there might already some breakthroughs in slowing/speeding up time.

I'd imagine that FTL travel would be a possible area or research. Magic can create force, so it might be able to push an object already traveling fast past the speed of light.

Reaching 0K would likely be another area of interest.

Tons of research would go into the chemistry applications of magic. If magic could cause certain chemical reactions to happen faster or with higher yield, they could be worth billions, as well as allow for all kinds of things that would be amazingly difficult or even impossible otherwise.

I'm sure the creation of life or even just food would be big as well. Think how much easier it would be to colonize a planet if you could just bring a handful of mages to make food/water/energy/everything needed to sustain a colony.

Immortality is EASY for magicians. You just have to enter into a pact with a spirit that is almost certainly malevolent so that it can come back from beyond the metaplanes and do whatever it likes forever. Oh, and it can't be banished or anything like that unless you die. So, yeah!

Teleportation I imagine will come about as soon as someone works out what a Lightbringer is. Or some form of it. A form of teleportation, anyway. And if someone ever distributes any Wizardry, resurrection. Though that might not be because Death isn't imprisoned anymore, if he ever was. And you can arguably do that already - spirits for water, for example, or nutrition spells. Which cause addiction and eventually death from essence loss. Energy.. a quickened electrical aura spell on something, I imagine.

Manunancy
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Jan 23 2010, 01:37 AM) *
basically.
but why would you do that, if you could magic yourself some ACTUAL FOOD no matter how tasteless, that will keep you both fed and feeling full?


Because eating food means ther's waste to dispose of. In a situation like spending a few days in a confined environment it can be a real boon. It also prevents whoever might be looking for you to notice an increase of water use in your hideout (be it for drinking or the toilet).
Platinum
QUOTE (Heath Robinson @ Jan 22 2010, 07:57 PM) *
In SR4 there is the Nutrition spell from Street Magic that feeds you off Mana (each hit equates to a meal iirc). It makes no mention of whether you continue to feel hungry or not, though.



I find it strange that magic will create magical nutrients in your body, but cannot create food. Or something like Ice sheet which will create a giant slippery surface. I wonder if this is so you cannot cast a create bullets spell or something or if there is a real purpose.

From my recollection, ( it might be a netbook) but there was a teleportation spell that was line of sight.
Stahlseele
There was NEVER a Teleporting Spell EVER!
That is one of the 3 Rules of Shadowrun Magic SINCE VERSION 1 if i remember correctly.
Also, yes, those spells are su wacky so you don't have a create Platinum Spell.
Maelstrome
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Jan 23 2010, 05:44 PM) *
There was NEVER a Teleporting Spell EVER!
That is one of the 3 Rules of Shadowrun Magic SINCE VERSION 1 if i remember correctly.
Also, yes, those spells are su wacky so you don't have a create Platinum Spell.


i think i know what he is talking about. i used to have a by gurps sr3 ebook in it were halflings, kender, teleportation,and a meteor spell. aswell as a few other cliches.
Stahlseele
Kender: BLAM! BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM! *ch-click* BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM!
Meteor-spell can be done in SR without too much of a Problem. It's basically just a Fireball coming from somehwere else instead of from the casters position.
But: NO TELEPORTING!
lonewolf23k
I've thought of a possible route to an effect resembling Teleportation...

Astral projection allows the projector to travel at the speed of thought, crossing incredible distances and bypassing most physical barriers.

Spirits, naturally astral beings, can occasionally manifest in the physical world by creating material bodies for themselves.

If a spellcaster ever figures out how to dematerialize and rematerialize his body, he could effectively "teleport" by de-materializing at one location, astrally travelling across a distance, and re-materializing at another location.

He'd still be blocked by mana barriers, and in danger of astral attacks, but it would be close enough to the intended effect to count, without necessarily "breaking the rules" as it were.
Hagga
That's precisely the method of teleportation hinted at in this thread. It's also canon in Earthdawn, and there are canon examples of it being used (albeit by Harlequin).
hahnsoo
QUOTE (Hagga @ Jan 23 2010, 10:45 PM) *
That's precisely the method of teleportation hinted at in this thread. It's also canon in Earthdawn, and there are canon examples of it being used (albeit by Harlequin).
Earthdawn has a TON of things that don't exist in Shadowrun (and vice versa). In Earthdawn, you can cast a City in a Bottle spell which essentially rips an entire landscape into an alchera for a period of time. A larger version of this spell was used to make Parlainth disappear during the Scourge. While alchera exist in Shadowrun, spells that allow you to produce alchera are not.

If it requires Astral Projection, then it doesn't fall under the "Sorcery Holy Grail" restriction, though. There are certain effects that Sorcery/Spellcasting cannot do in particular, but these things can be circumvented by other magical skills, abilities, and phenomena. There are no Teleportation spells in Shadowrun, but there obviously is teleportation using Magic (metaplanar shortcut by spirits, Gateway power, etc.).
KCKitsune
QUOTE (MatrixJargon @ Jan 22 2010, 05:30 PM) *
Understanding Technomancy

I know I know, it's supposedly not magic. But I think it's got to have SOME connection, it's way too similar. Complex forms, fading, sprites, resonance, essence loss effects. At very least, some of the Corps have to follow my line of thinking.


Sorry Jargon, Technomancers are NOT magic, but Psionics (true Psions and not the bullshit "Psions are just mages that are fucking stupid and delusional).

The reason I say this is that Technomancers can operate in outer space. Outer space (as you know) is on NASTY Mana Void. It's on the order of "Cast a spell and die really, really, REALLY badly!" nasty. Technomancers... no problem. This is the justification that I used when I created my Psionics house rules* for Shadowrun.


* == for sake of disclosure, I never had a chance to play these rules, but I did have a beta reader to make sure that I didn't wank the Psion rules... heck I tried to a little harsh because I didn't want Psionics to be another "OMGWTFBBQ!" house rule.



WRT to a teleportation spell... The designers didn't want a teleport spell because it would break the setting. Think about it: You get into the Corp Mega-Super-Uber Research facility and steal their Uber neat gizmo. You then teleport out with it. Not very fun in the long run.

Now Rowling (the lady who wrote Harry Potter... and made a billion dollars doing so) had the right idea. There was magic that could be used to STOP teleportation from happening in an area. No teleporting in and no teleporting out. There was even a spell used by magic users in that reality to temporarily shut down teleportation.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Jan 23 2010, 08:55 PM) *
Sorry Jargon, Technomancers are NOT magic, but Psionics (true Psions and not the bullshit "Psions are just mages that are fucking stupid and delusional).

The reason I say this is that Technomancers can operate in outer space. Outer space (as you know) is on NASTY Mana Void. It's on the order of "Cast a spell and die really, really, REALLY badly!" nasty. Technomancers... no problem. This is the justification that I used when I created my Psionics house rules* for Shadowrun.


* == for sake of disclosure, I never had a chance to play these rules, but I did have a beta reader to make sure that I didn't wank the Psion rules... heck I tried to a little harsh because I didn't want Psionics to be another "OMGWTFBBQ!" house rule.



Would you be interested in Sharing these house rules? I would be interested in actually reading them...

Keep the Faith
thepatriot
FTL is already a part of magic. Perhaps Possession is a concept to be considered in this way...

Mage A projects, travels to china, Possesses the meat form of Mage B. ...and he got there in only a few seconds.
Method
QUOTE (Karoline @ Jan 22 2010, 02:40 PM) *
I'd think that immortality would be a lesser concern with magical research since there is already a technological equivalent.
While I think you are generally correct, I would wager that the basis for immortality enjoyed by IEs is almost guaranteed to have a magical component (at the very least it has something to do with the effects of the ambient mana levels on their very special metagenes).
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Method @ Jan 23 2010, 09:12 PM) *
While I think you are generally correct, I would wager that the basis for immortality enjoyed by IEs is almost guaranteed to have a magical component (at the very least it has something to do with the effects of the ambient mana levels on their very special metagenes).



You really think so? For the 5th Age Mana Levels were 0 to minimal (Depending upon your interpretation of what Mana Levels represent), and yet the Immortal Pointy Eared Plot Devices were still there...

Keep the Faith
Karoline
QUOTE (thepatriot @ Jan 23 2010, 11:08 PM) *
FTL is already a part of magic. Perhaps Possession is a concept to be considered in this way...

Mage A projects, travels to china, Possesses the meat form of Mage B. ...and he got there in only a few seconds.


Not really. Mages in astral only move at something like Magic x 100 mph or kph. So while they're maybe a bit faster than a passenger jet, they aren't spaceship quality.
Method
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Jan 23 2010, 08:14 PM) *
You really think so? For the 5th Age Mana Levels were 0 to minimal (Depending upon your interpretation of what Mana Levels represent), and yet the Immortal Pointy Eared Plot Devices were still there...


True. So the question becomes: "How did beings with magical immortality sustain themselves without an ambient mana level?" The answer could also have implications for magic outside the giasphere.

edit: We can also assume that immortality has something to do with metagenes and the ambient mana level because there are no immortal humans around from the 5th World (that we know of anyway).
thepatriot
/em sticks his tongue out at Karoline.
Hagga
QUOTE (hahnsoo @ Jan 24 2010, 04:31 AM) *
Earthdawn has a TON of things that don't exist in Shadowrun (and vice versa). In Earthdawn, you can cast a City in a Bottle spell which essentially rips an entire landscape into an alchera for a period of time. A larger version of this spell was used to make Parlainth disappear during the Scourge. While alchera exist in Shadowrun, spells that allow you to produce alchera are not.

If it requires Astral Projection, then it doesn't fall under the "Sorcery Holy Grail" restriction, though. There are certain effects that Sorcery/Spellcasting cannot do in particular, but these things can be circumvented by other magical skills, abilities, and phenomena. There are no Teleportation spells in Shadowrun, but there obviously is teleportation using Magic (metaplanar shortcut by spirits, Gateway power, etc.).

Yes, I know. You can also raise an army of zombies and have them sodomize Rhonabwy if you so desire. Netherwalking doesn't require you to be astrally projecting - it's a talent, which is a combination of adept power and sorcery. And while there are no instances of Rhonabwy being gang-banged by rotting corpses in the sixth world, there are recorded instances of two particular elves disappearing into the astral plane for giggles, physically.
NeoJudas
Whew... good to know the old topics never really die.

Immortality - Been covered in several forms already, with "Spirit Pact" definitely leading the way. In theory, as magical spells can effect processes of various types, then a "biodegenerative stasis" could be easily developed. Aging is NOT the problem to be remedied in a magical universe. Psychology is the real problem.

Resurrection - Yeah, well... this is a big nasty thing that no doubt will require Metamagic/Metamantic level stuff in ones games in order to pull it off. I've often wondered if a "Preserve" were to be cast upon someone who is "dead but moments ago", and then could a Heal be cast upon them later as the biological process of dying has been halted at the time of the Preserve and thus allowing for a seeming "Resurrection" from a longer period of time.

Teleportation - Okay, first of all FTL (Faster than Light) is not in Shadowrun Magic, even in Fourth Edition. There are multiple problems when dealing with teleportation. Time *AND* Space, because I presume one would want to traverse the distance and NOT have the time move around them as if they had walked it or somesuch. So again, if this is going to happen, then Metamagic/Metamantic stuff is going to be required. And at the same time does not impede the boundaries of the rules for Standard Sorcery as one would now be dealing with "Higher Level Spellcraft" at that point.

Please note however that as the movement through a time/space medium such as our own is itself a process, and if one could manipulate how the process of such were being impacted upon a spell recipient then you could pull off apparent Teleportation without Metamagical means.

Creation - as in the raw creation of something from nothing. This is a big one, perhaps bigger than the Teleportation problem. This one slams through lots of Physical (and even Metaphysical) laws. The old Create Food/Create Water spells from older versions were a bit much, but not that much really. One could easily argue that the magician doing the spell casting of such was actually converting the mana s/he is channelling through the spell/their body and thus creating a bridge that allows for the energy to materials as solid matter in some form. The more focus/skill, the more adept/creative the matter so created.

We have ruled in our games here that "True Creation" is a super-powerful magic and that in fact what usually is happening is some kind of mass transformation of one matter/energy into another matter/energy type. Hits and Drain levels usually depict the limits, restrictions as well as generated effects.

Mana Generation - Okay, this is a goofy one. There are now plants that generate higher levels of mana in a pre-existing etheric environment in Shadowrun so in theory, some of the plants could actually generate a mana-form. Also, it should be possible to transform one form of energy (Say--- Solar Radiation) from Physical energy through a person (or the mechanics of a spell itself) into Etheric energy that would allow for mana usage in the physical world. Mana is by it's very nature, inversely Dual Nature (meaning, that it is both present in the Mundane and Metanatural Universe)... thus a conversion spell could easily pull this off and not break any rules (and by "easy", I mean it can be done and "easy" is a state of conjecture).

Immortals in Low/No Mana Periods. If we argue and utilize the Void of Space mechanics as a "negative magic attribute", then if a being with a high enough magic attribute could in theory stay alive with their magic in a no magic environment. And as spell usage is not itself requiring of a magician to be astral, they would not be burned by a voidal exposure during spell casting. They'd just be sucked down with that uber-drain modifier. But note that passive magical means (adept abilities for instance) would work without drain.
Professor Evil Overlord
A few others...

Healing stun damage, and drain (phys or stun). That's one that even Earthdawn had trouble with. Techniques to recover quickly from drain would be a hot topic of research for magicians of any tradition. Double for the physical wounds caused by overcasting.

Increasing Essence Not cybermancy, though it could be argued as a step in the right direction, but magic that reinforced or altered the pattern in such a way that the disruptions of implants would be reduced.

Magic in the matrix Not technomancy, but rather spells or foci that could manipulate objects in AR or VR. Dangling ideas like "matrix invisibility" or "control IC thoughts" should get researchers plenty of corp money.
The Jake
Don't forget a full magician/Technomancer all in one. There was a canonical word for this... I think it was in Emergence... genetic research into somehow combining the traits into the one being capable of both. I believe it is theoretically impossible (canonically speaking) , but that doesn't stop people from trying.

- J.
The Jake
Don't forget a full magician/Technomancer all in one. There was a canonical word for this... I think it was in Emergence... genetic research into somehow combining the traits into the one being capable of both. I believe it is theoretically impossible (canonically speaking) , but that doesn't stop people from trying.

- J.
Stahlseele
There was the Idea of a Ghost made up of light.
With the complete Matrix-Infrastructure being optical, he could enter via a normal optical fibre wire cable and rush through, deleting everything in it's path, cracking every encryption by remodulating his own light matrix to fit the key-hole.
Heath Robinson
QUOTE (Professor Evil Overlord @ Feb 2 2010, 10:54 AM) *
Healing stun damage, and drain (phys or stun). That's one that even Earthdawn had trouble with. Techniques to recover quickly from drain would be a hot topic of research for magicians of any tradition. Double for the physical wounds caused by overcasting.

They've already found a solution to this. I believe they call it a Medkit.
Karoline
QUOTE (Heath Robinson @ Feb 2 2010, 07:14 AM) *
They've already found a solution to this. I believe they call it a Medkit.


Maybe it was a houserule, but I didn't think you could heal drain damage with a medkit. It would be rather silly since the damage tends to be depicted as internal (nose bleeds being a common sign) and there isn't alot a medkit can do for internal injuries (Unless maybe you have the nano-tech one)
Stahlseele
it's stun.
medkit heals stun.
that easy.
everything else is just fluff.
Ancient History
Some corporate magic research projects will be mentioned in Corp Guide, for those who want to start their salivating early.
Stahlseele
*drools*
etherial
QUOTE (Karoline @ Feb 2 2010, 09:01 AM) *
Maybe it was a houserule, but I didn't think you could heal drain damage with a medkit.


I believe it was a rule in previous editions.
Lansdren
I'm pretty sure that one of the fluff stories covered a mage on a space station doing a metaplane quest after some bug spirits using a recovered focus. From my reading it implied that they had prepared the station to have enough living matter (plants mostly) to produce a weak mana field in the void. It still required a high level of initiation but it did cover the magic in space issue for me. Its doable but you really need a space station with a national park level of greenery in it to make it viable
BRodda
QUOTE (Lansdren @ Feb 2 2010, 11:38 AM) *
I'm pretty sure that one of the fluff stories covered a mage on a space station doing a metaplane quest after some bug spirits using a recovered focus. From my reading it implied that they had prepared the station to have enough living matter (plants mostly) to produce a weak mana field in the void. It still required a high level of initiation but it did cover the magic in space issue for me. Its doable but you really need a space station with a national park level of greenery in it to make it viable


Are's space station Daedalus at LaGrange Point 4, AKA Eden. Its on page 111 of Street Magic. They use it to open metaplaner gates to The Hive and other places that it would be stupid to do on Earth.
Heath Robinson
QUOTE (Karoline @ Feb 2 2010, 02:01 PM) *
Maybe it was a houserule, but I didn't think you could heal drain damage with a medkit. It would be rather silly since the damage tends to be depicted as internal (nose bleeds being a common sign) and there isn't alot a medkit can do for internal injuries (Unless maybe you have the nano-tech one)


QUOTE (Page 253 @ Anniversary BBB Printing)
Magical Healing
The Heal spell can be used to repair physical injuries. Each hit from the Spellcasting Test heals one box of Physical damage (up to a maximum equal to the spellís Force). See Heal, p. 208. Note that sorcery cannot heal damage resulting from magical Drain.


Medkits are not Sorcery, therefore they can heal Drain damage.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Heath Robinson @ Feb 2 2010, 12:14 PM) *
Medkits are not Sorcery, therefore they can heal Drain damage.



QFT...
Thanks Heath Robinson

Keep the Faith
Method
In previous editions you risked essence loss (and thus magic loss) if you relied too heavily on medical treatments (like stim patches). This was obviously intended to dissuade mages from "quick fix" treatments for drain, but SR4 has no such restrictions.

And just think: if Ares is opening gateways to the Hive metaplane from Daedalus, what the hell are they doing on Helios?

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