I've ran Shadowrun on and off since 1st edition and I've always had the same problem. How do I design a good adventure that requires the party members' skills, doesn't result in instant death and isn't just a rehash of another adventure?

Currently I'm running a two PC game (1 GM + 2 players = 3 total gamers). We are not playing with a PC hacker (using an NPC that never runs in his meatbod - Matrix only). One of the players usually brings his mage character which isn't a problem since magic isn't too difficult.

While planning a game I find that a good hacker, a mage or a stealthy character can accomplish the mission by themselves. This has led to a lot of trashed stories & general unhappiness. I think my biggest difficulty is shoehorning combat into the game. We had a run where the players snuck into the building and grabbed the data, no shots fired. There were definitely chances of combat but clever work bypassed it. One player thought that this was cool and took pride in it the other was a bit frustrated that there was no combat. Hell, I was frustrated.

I've also noticed that life threatening combat doesn't happen a lot in my games. The players are usually hired as the hit squad/"go-fors". They have the time to set up a plan and execute it. They refuse to take last minute work because of this. And while throwing a wrench into their plans occasionally happens it's rarely enough to cause issues.

Also, I can't seem to really add much variety to my games. The usual "Get (Item)" or "Kill (NPC)" doesn't change much for me. Sure, the settings change but the formulas usually stay the same and after a short time it's easy to see the formula instead of the settings. Boring for the players and more important boring for the GM. And I'm not sure if the players are able to handle anything too complicated. They never really understood the "foot work" part of the game (checking with contacts, asking around for info) so I don't base games on detective work being necessary. They have questions but if the NPC hacker or the Johnson doesn't have the answers then they abandon the question.

I've used the generators and I've read a LOT of SR material over the years. For some reason it's just not clicking for me. And 4th edition adds a lot more detail which, while awesome, makes my job harder. I don't know, maybe Shadowrun's too complicated for my poor old brain to comprehend anymore. Maybe I should just abandon RPGs and veg infront of the XBox.

Any ideas?

Are your players doing runs only for the money? You mentioned they never take short notice jobs and that's fine to an extent but if you can draw them into the realities of the situations they can't always put the perfect plan together. Get them involved in dangerous conspiracies with far reaching consequences beyond getting paid, the Winternight scenarios from system failure, the Ordo Maximumus, the Mafia, all of these are groups and situations. If your players arn't doing legwork or taking precautions have that bite them in the butt. Make it get personal, change the venue change the scene.

Maybe change the venue, I found this helped me emmensely, it gets the players out of their comfort zone contact wise and also changes the feel of the game. Running in LA or Manhattan is very very different from running in Seattle.

Just some thoughts that may help.

Maybe you should focus less on the "abstract type" of the adventure (extraction, wetwork, B&E), and more on the windowdressing; what is the adventure about? One corporation's struggle against another's takeover attempts?

Lately I'm feeling that the "character build" and "monster type" mentality has been seeping out of the D&D quarantine zone. While it gives good terminology for tactical analysis, it's toxic to real RP immersion.



Try starting with ideas about how things will look, what kind of cool things will be there; a 'run will emerge after some thinking. In the beginning there's this idea about a corporation trying to get something done; they decide that the legal way won't work, so they start thinking about the shadows.



A friend of mine has a "formula" for creating Spycraft adventures; he takes two unrelated news articles, and decides they're connected, and that's what the mission is about.

- Accident on the international space station
- New food product big success

=> The new food product was discovered on the space station (which is actually secretly used by Corp X for zero-G food research.) It draws the attention of aliens, which have already attacked the station. Will they now attack the factory back on earth?


Something like that. I'm gonna try it myself if I happen to run out of ideas.

I felt I suffered the same symptoms in my games (Steal prototype X, destroy processing plant Y, etc). Somehow these segue into massive 'Save The World'™ style games once the PCs are at the appropriate Bad Ass level .

Running Ghost Cartels I've found quite liberating.
1) It is very much street level.
2) location changes.
3) Mostly pregenerated.

I read Emergence and found it amazingly lazcklustre as an adventure framework (but a good read). But the more pre-generated stuff I've seen (I also own Dusk) looks like overall they're very conscious of this trap and the adventures are catered more towards avoiding/preventing it.

You could try and use the pre-generated material? This I find helps stave off GM burnout.

- J.

Then you are playing the wrong game, my friend. The footwork is a huge part of the fun, and built into the game. It's like trying to recreate a the movie Ocean's Eleven but replacing all of the characters with variants on Knuckles the Bruiser.

Another thing that keeps the entertainment level up is to add a nemesis group or character. In one of the ongoing SR4 games my group has our GM inserted a nemesis for our group. To keep things interesting that nemesis doesnt always have a huge role in the current run, but somehow someway he pops up and makes the group wonder if at any moment we'd be dead. The nemesis should put fear into the group. Ex-Elite Runners or even other runner groups as nemesis's can be a fun way to just flavor up a generally just dry run.

Remember that the illusion or threat of dying or getting caught can be even more fun that actually being put in the situation. With a small group like that having a well played NPC character that is more than just filler can help you throw out little nuggets of fear or paranoia so that when you finally drop that OH MY GAWD moment its all the more special.

Just my 2 cents!

D-Rez

If you want another way to shake them up; don't give them a run, give them a situation. Put the characters in the middle of a riot that they have to survive and escape from without an easy way out. Let them witness something morally wrong and see if you cannot get them involved that way. Place them in the middle of a natural disaster.

Or have them kidnapped by a group that enjoys hunting others as sport, stripped of their comms and most of their gear they need to find a way to turn the tables on the hunters and eventually escape. This particular scenario while ripped from a number of books and movies turned into an ongoing campaign plot for a number of years before we finally put an end to that particular Club.

Lurker has a good point make it personal and the things that runners usually take personal are in no particular order

1) Contacts/suppliers
2) Nuyen
3) Comfort

Contacts, screw with them. Remember loyalty goes both ways if a loyal contact gets screwed with he's gonna remember all those freebies he gave the PC and expect something in return. Hell just kidnap him and let the PCs know about it if they don't do something then they will lose either the contact or his goodwill that should force them into a more direct confrontation especially if the contact has been mistreated or iced in which case revenge should be high on the agenda.

Nuyen, hack the sucker. Runners hang around some of the dodgiest characters in the world, some of which are less than honest. Have one of their SINs hacked and traced back to their real accounts time it right just as they try and pay for something, preferably to someone big nasty and horribly criminal. If they have no cash suddenly they have to run, especially if they dont take steps to correct the hack then you can just take it all off them again. Even worse have the hack continue through his contacts list, maybe his mothers life savings are drained (that also works for above) or his fixers account gets hacked and they trace it back to his comm.

Comfort, hit him at home. Runners may be paranoid but they cant be suited and booted at all times and even the best criminals get unlucky maybe he was caught on a tv crew camera or a beat officer got a gut feeling after a routine traffic stop and puts him under the microscope, maybe a LS drone catches the runner during a SIN change and follows him home.Maybe an anonymous tipoff or nosy neighbour, gangland home invasion gas explosion or someone torched his car all of these should have most paranoid psychotics/sociopaths i mean sensible runners out for blood.

Please note that a good adventure doesn't necessarily require the party member's skill. As long as the character aren't completely min-maxed or unbalanced, you can have a fun and refreshing session by putting them in a challenging situation where they can't rely on their usual tricks. Of course, doing this too often will probably displease the players who like to be able to use their character's abilities but once in a while it can be interesting.

See two bolded parts. This I think may be a problem. You allow players to relax in their comfort zone (nothing too difficult) and they get bored. And you too.

Get them in difficult situations, in complex times without that simple formula.

Let them take a job (which will turn to involve some things that players are not comfortable with). E.g., let them be hired for a big job (series of runs) that hey have to accept as whole. E.g., Ares wants to acquire Hildebrandt-Kleinfort-Bernal, and Ares hires runners for the job (say initial job description involves some extractions, some information massaging) with the big success fee at the end. And then they may get complicated tasks, like 'get some puppet instead of CEO in the meeting of Boardmembers of HKB, but who looks and talks exactly like the CEO. And then the puppet has to call general shareholder meeting. While afterwards, you have to get real CEO back and make him not talk about the kidnapping experience. And then while there may be several runs, where they have to 'persuade' different influential shareholders to sell their shares to Ares, player characters may get seriously shot at. Some of shareholders may even hire their own (inferior) shadowrunning teams, that takes the problems out of work time and out of your players comfort zone.

It's not about you. It's not about your adventure. It's not about the mission. It's not about whether or not combat happens or doesn't happen.

You are the conductor, the SR world is your orchestra, the players are your lead musicians. You are all the audience. Lead them, make the play, give them their parts and let them loose.

What do the players want? What do the characters want? Find out. Use that information. Incorporate it into every game. Just a little. Spin it. Give the players and characters situations where they must make a decision, and no answer is clearly wrong or right. See what happens. You'll discover that simply because the players/PC would all make different choices, that the game becomes more interesting (Though you do want to avoid them getting to hate each other unless they are people who can handle IC conflict very well.)

It's not whether or not there is combat. It's about why they fight.

One of the most satisfying game combats I played in involved a single shot. It took 3 game sessions to set up, and a year of campaign story arc with tons of other missions to get to the point where the team decided to take that shot for their own personal reasons. That single die roll really mattered. The team was not at risk if it missed, but we really cared about the result.

I will echo some of what DireRadiant has written. One of the things that makes SR so dynamic is the lack of "alignments". See, the setting is rife with moral dilemmas. Besides the fact that the PCs are generally hired criminals, the dystopian world breeds crime, violence, vice, immorality, inequity, class envy, social strife, racism, etc. No one is really good (usually) and no one is really bad (usually). The cool thing is that because there are no alignments the players are not insulated from their character's role in the story. They can't just say "Sure, I'll take this job blowing up a school bus full of disabled children because my character is chaotic evil and thats what he would do." They have to think about the implications- how the character would really feel about such an act, and how he would live with it after the fact. Your job as a GM is to not make it easy for them. "Sure, thats a lot of dead kids, but with a payoff like that you can buy your wife the gene therapy she needs." Make them feel it. You will find that the setting and the characters come alive.

I have replied to similar posts before so I wanted to start a sticky-like thread to make it worthwhile so I don't have to repeat myself. That and everyone can contribute.

Click here.

- J.

And this is the way that I would prefer things to be. But the gamers are needing D&D level motivation. You know, rail shooter games - lead em by the hand. I'm wondering if real life is just killing everyone's enthusiasm. For the last few years everyone has been overly stressed, myself included. Maybe that's why the group has always defaulted to D&D when games collapse; no one has the energy to really get into their characters anymore. And I'm not sure that I have the energy to game at that level anymore. Well, this hasn't been the enlightenment that I was looking for. Guess I should cancel my SR4 LE order.

If you have run games as long as I have (20+ years) then it is pretty hard to create a totally new adventure. But that really doesn't matter because the color is what matters. It's all about the details and how they are presented.

Instant death is a bit harder part as it depends quite a lot how you run your games. If you don't fudge your die rolls it is entirely possible to get instant kills (I think) unless your characters are tanks (which is unlikely from what you wrote about them). Granted, my experience with Shadowrun is quite limited so I could be wrong.

Personally I think that the best mix for an adventure is that you give your players a chance to shine and prove their worth and that means both of them. When one can't do something the other might have the right skills for the job. But the game gets really interesting when they get to a situation where they can't rely on their skills directly or at least not use their primary skills. Then it's time to improvise and that's interesting.


To me this sounds like a perfect run Everything went smoothly. But you are in trouble if you and one of the players want combat but the other player doesn't. But there ways to get around this.


Now we're talking. This is something to be exploited to a great extent.

Create a normal run and give them time to plan and execute it. Since they don't do their own footwork and give up the questions if they don't get the answer it's just asking for the trouble. Put some twists to the runs. But this is a balancing act. Leave some of the runs without twists so they can't be sure what to expect. Same goes for what kind of twist it is. It can be anything from Johnson doublecrossing them to poor intel and to a minor (and even funny) incident. When you use the whole spectrum it keeps the game fresh and your players on their toes.

Let's say that they get another data steal job where they need their NPC netrunner. In the middle of the run the NPC makes something stupid or just fumbles. This could result him being fried or getting caught or whatever seems to give most drama (and more adventure potential). This will probably trigger the alarm in the compound and now your runners are alone in a very hostile situation. They are definitely overgunned or at least there are more of guards than there are the runners. As a final insult they don't have the pay data, yet. Now, do they proceed to try and retrieve the data (is it even possible any more?)? Or do they just try and get out of the compound, alive? Do they try and storm their way out (sooner or later) or use more interesting tactics? Lot's of possibilities.

Another example might be a hit squad job but the arranged extraction never shows up. What now? Why it didn't show up?

I think twists like these might make your players more interested to do some legwork themselves and these add more combat to your games, if that's what you want.


SR world is a pretty complex and I am not anything an expert about it. Adding the twist to runs is one tool for more varied games. Looking at the character sheets shows you not only what the runners can do but in an indirect way shows you what they want to do in your game, too. Still, the best tool is simply to talk to your players. Talk what each of you want from the game and explain to them that doing their own legwork etc. is an important part of the run (if that's what you want).

I hope this helped.

Ah, that got a few gears spinning again. So use their lack of intel gathering against them... yeah, good idea. I feel that it'll carry the same message that punishing a dog 6 hours after the fact carries though. I'm not sure that this would push the gamers into better prep - they may just feel penalized for no reason. But damn Ikirouta, I think you nailed it! Everyone has been right so far. They've gotten too comfortable but I haven't found a good way to break them out of it. Force them to gather their own intel. Man, this whole time I just forgot to take off the training wheels.

Thanks for the advice gang. Maybe I won't be canceling that order after all.

Do a "Day in the life of" your team when they are not in a mission. There is a whole world outside of what the Johnson ask the team to do. How do they handle it?

Does one of the characters have a street lifestyle? Where do they sleep? Does the local gang come over and threaten them? Do they wipe out the gang? Then do the other street squatters look to them to protect them from the other gangs moving into the power vacuum?

Does the character have a favorite place to eat? What do they do when they notice the owner of their favorite restaurant about to go out of business because they are threatened by the Yakuza for not paying off a debt?

Does the character have a favorite sports team? What happens when they get asked to make a run to cripple the star player on the team in the game before the playoffs?

Does the PC have family members? What if one becomes a LEO?

What if the PC neighbors start a drug lab...

Throw in a couple runs here and there that are built out of the world the character actually lives in.

Let the players create the stories. The problem it seems is your players are passive. You give them a mission and they then run it. They need to figure out their motivations and drop hints of a big run they do themselves. They need to tell you what they want. You need to throw in red herrings and unknowns. Maybe they got the wrong chip and have to go back. Maybe a second shadowrun teams breaks in. Maybe a large combat group comes in and begins to move the target.

Also do other missions such as escort. This is where the players have to protect a target. A nice convoy across the mountains in south america or the Himalayas. Make players deal with survival issues such as exposure, mudslides, dehydration. Also change the venue such as underwater or outerspace (a moon base).

Just a suggestion. Give them a run that is a cakewalk. But the post run meet is a set-up by someone they ran against awhile back.

Yes, it might feel like penalizing your players for playing like they have been playing for some time.

Here's what you might want to try out. Give the run only a minor twist that acts like a sort of wake up call to your players "We're not in Kansas anymore...". Avoid TPK as much as possible because it would only alienate your players. Reward any creative thinking so the characters can escape their situation easier than just with straightforward action. Or however you like

After the session you can just tell your players that making their own legwork and/or getting more intel on the job might have prevented the problems (or at least they could have been prepared to face them).

All good information. I think I pinpointed the other issue and it's pretty damning. I don't roleplay anymore. My old games were successful because we got into the game and our roles. Not so much anymore. I'm having a problem just letting go and getting into the roles. After about 6 hours of game time I start loosening up. And drinking doesn't help - I've tried.

Funny, Robot Chicken pointed this out for me. I was watching the extras from season 4. They have this awesome clip of the actors doing the voices (David Hasselhoff, Seth Green, etc) and watching them just loose theirselves in their characters was amazing.

I'm too... uppity, stick-up-the-ass, boring, self conscious... one or all and more of those descriptors to get into it. Could be the real life stress. My friend mentioned that due to stress he has problems playing. I bet it's a similar issue. Summoning up the courage and energy to actually roleplay seems very exhausting. Maybe that's why I'm turning to the XBox more these days.

This is going to be hard to fix.

Yes, I see that problem. I have not properly run any games for about five years now (since we got our first child). I am still doing my damnest to get back on the horse and get a game running even at a slow pace. But if roleplaying doesn't flow your boat anymore then just go ahead and take a break. Of course it would be great if someone else would take the responsibility of being a GM for a while.

GMing is hard work man. It is tiring. It requires fore planning. You need energy to get into the zone and be the leader at the table and set the standard and keep the players focused. These are not easy things to do week in, week out, year after year. It gets even harder if you're the only one who is able to step up to the plate and assume that responsibility.

We used to drink hard at my table. Until we started losing dice hurling them at other players and occasionally beat each other up. Umm... yeah... (prolly why I don't game with that group anymore).
Now we occasionally have a drink but its definitely not the focus. We find it hurts the overall gaming. And I say that being an Aussie and we LOVE our drink. So now, I occasionally drink. Mead makes the rounds and occasionally, a good port. If I have a bottle of scotch hovering around my house or I'm offered some rum, it will make an appearance - but thats it.

So yeah -- here's my NON RP advice.

1) Don't drink while gaming. Institute a rule if that's your table culture but I believe after 20 years of RPing (and 13+ years of drinking age) that hard drinking and RPing don't mix.
2) Get someone else to GM. See how they like it.
3) Take time out from GMing. Follow on from point 2 -- just do not GM. RP if you feel the inclination but DO NOT run a game.
4) Find an alternate gaming group. Easier said than done at times but sometimes worthwhile. Different culture, vibe and you get new ideas on how to do things. Plus, when you have options you are not as pressured.

- J.

I love to roleplay but don't get the chance any more.

I usually end up running the games I would love to play in.

My group can only really game after work during the weekdays so we get together at 06:30 PM. Start at 7 PM and go till 10 PM.

That is just really not enough time to really get in to character and pretty hard on a GM as far as timing is concerned.

And most of my players at that point are just looking to let some steam off. Still I've lowered my sights and we have fun and a good laugh.


Just remember that a runner doesn't get paid the big cred for jobs that have little or no complications.

Something will always go wrong. Shadowrun is the only game where you can have a PC fighting a dragon while getting a call from his girlfriend, his bookie, and the IRS. Each session look at one PC and try to bring one of his negative or positive qualities or something from his past in to the spot light. Try to give everyone a chance to shine (but maybe not in their specialty). In high stakes situations there is always room for more action than one PC can handle.

Try to set up the leg work so that the Face can not do all the leg work. I try to highlight one other PC each session. If nothing else have them meet up with a contact from a prior run. Use an NPC decker/hacker, but have them feed the PCs leads to check out rather than just spit it all out.

Rough out your set pieces that you know will happen more than likely and then let the players decide how they are going to get there. Steal from any where, file the numbers off, and run with it. Just keep it challenging and fun for your players.

Don't pull the rug out from under the player's feet, but over several runs let them know they are starting to move in the big leagues and all that it implies.

Although I do find that a GM should consider letting one PC plan play out perfectly just to keep them on their toes and let you remind them stuff does not always go wrong. Just 99% of the time.

Be careful about this style of gaming. I'm wondering if my group has degenerated into it's current state due to the stress caused by just getting the game together (conflicting schedules and such) and the rushed way we tend to play. We've "lowered our sights" quite a bit over the years - to a level that we can't easily recover from.
I guess the main difference, and most important, is that you're still having fun.


Another thing to note: D&D 4th edition has made us lazy. Or we were lazy and 4th edition caters to lazy play. Probably both. It's hard to visualize the game world due to the way the abilities work. We've began glossing over these issues to a point that we don't really try imagining or explaining the effects anymore. Everything's mostly just mechanical. An interesting game but I can't call it roleplaying anymore. Others have mentioned that D&D 4th isn't quite a roleplaying game - I think I'm starting to understand their unexplained statement.

Bodyguard work, for a star who has received death threats from the mafia or yakuza but needs to keep the relationship secret less their image be spoiled. Now they are on the defensive and you can throw at them whatever you want.

Yes! That is so true!

This is precicely why I'm suspicious of focussing too much on builds, and labelling monsters into categories based on how to fight them.