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Okay well I'm just wondering if anyone actually thought about how big the foci would be with how many units of materials are used from Magic in the Shadow.

Also what would you guys consider Oricalcum's density?

Maybe I'm just not looking at things very well but I can see foci being very very heavy, considering that one unit is 5kg-10kg if I'm remembering right.

Maybe I'm not thinking about this stuff right.

Would like any ideas or if nobody really looks at this stuff.
Austere Emancipator
I think the gold chains around Mr T's neck count as about one focus.
Jason Farlander
Umm... one unit of orichalcum is ten grams. You were off by about 3 orders of magnitude there.
Austere Emancipator
So an order of magnitude is a multiple of 10? That's always been bothering me.

Jason's right about the weight of orichaclum, however. Can't remember where in MitS that is, but I'm sure it's in there. So the focus can be quite a lot smaller than the gold chain setup of Mr T. Raw Materials weigh 5kg for herbs, 10kg for minerals, and Radicals weigh 50g for herbs, 100g for minerals.
A unit of herbal material is 5 kgs, and a unit of mineral or metals is 10kg?

Ummm this is page 40 MitS, how am I off by any magnitude.

Ummm right you are right about the weight of oricalcum, but what about the density.

I'm trying to get is this a light material as in is one unit which is 10gs the size of salt or is it the size of a basketball.

Then there is the interesting:

Orichalcum is made of Gold, Silver, Copper, and Mercury. You need a unit of each for one unit of Orichalcum.

So that means that so far you have 40 kgs of weight the product is, well let's just say you are super uber punk awesome enchanter and somehow manage 100 succeses(Ummm, sure right. But still.)

You have only made (ohhh wait this is starting to make sense in a chemistry sort of way. Their is still the other stuff, but you have only generated so much orichalcum. And chances are you can't reuse the materials at least for magic because the process strips them of their radical power.) anyways you made 1 kg of orichalcum, but there is still 39 kgs left.

Anyways I kinda answered my question by myself.
Actually, I'm sorry on page 42 of MitS is the reference page for the radicals which is 50g for herbs and 100gs for minerals/metals.

Which means that 400gs are used for making orichalcum, and you end up with perhaps a forth of the original weight if you can somehow make 10 successes.

This is a I guess a pretty cool thing to notice.
Jason Farlander
I thought you were referring to the weight of orichalcum with your 5-10 kg remark...but ok

*/me pulls out MiTS*

Your confusion stems from the fact that you are confusing "units" of materials with the "radicals" derived from those materials.

You can refine units of material to 1/2 their original weight and use that material to make fetishes or to make ritual materials.

You can also use alchemy to generate radicals from refined units of material, with each radical weighing 1/100 as much as the original unit of material. Radicals are actually incorporated into the structure of the focus you are enchanting, but they dont weigh very much.

The actual focus is a created from something called a telesma, which can be just about anything at all, ranging from a carved wooden stick (a wand) to a pocket computer. An example straight from MiTS is a rag doll. Clearly, these dont have to weigh all too terribly much.
Yes you pegged my problem, this seems to much cooler. Guess when I was trying to relearn all the rules from what I was hoping to be a Sojourn, and actually was a freakin two through three years break. Made me forget a lot of this stuff.

Now I'm running a game and I would like definitely these just terribly off things to be found out and destroyed. I don't care about running a totally canon game, but well if the canon seems to work right, like what MitS actually says and not what I thought it says. I can live with that.
Crimsondude 2.0
I was always under the impression which Jason mentioned, that the Telesma is what the Focus is, but that the radicals and other materials are simply used (more specifically, used up) in the enchanting process to create the Focus.

My basis was specifically the Weapon Focus. Back in the day when I first beagn playing, I made two types of PCs: Sams and PhysAds (I actually think I was the first to only refer to them as "PhysAds" on some board or another about ten years ago, but then I also recall the whole NAGM/Awakenings playtester situation), and my favorite tool to use as a Weapon Focus (as suggested in the Grimoire) was a Katana (well, sword, but I thought then that Katanas were the shit). The thing didn't weigh anymore than it would have before, because most of the elements (save the orichalum) were used in the process, but they did not become part of the Focus.

But, that's just me. I also haven't made a mage or physad in more than 5 years.
if you still wanted the actual atomic wight of orichalcum it's equal parts copper, mercury, silver and gold. Number-wise this puts it at atomic weight 142.26 about even between silver(107.9) and gold(197.0).
Who says old text books don't come in handy wink.gif
John Campbell
Orichalcum hasn't got an atomic weight. It's not an element.
Okay, actually considering my background I would have a better idea about this elemental crap then most.

But that is exactly where the problem lies there is no way to calculate what isn't used up when you make the Orichalcum. Do the math if 400g of different materials are used and you only get one success you get 10g of orichalcum.

However this stuff is alchemy not chemistry so it probably won't work on the same principles as stiockemtry would suggest. Probably due to some kind of equation that is somewhat like e = m©[squared.] Only its magical energy and not the normal physical kind.

Well that is my theory about why I don't know its density. I'm just wondering with what people have read if anything is up. (like if in some fantasy book, or more importantly shadowrun/earthdawn something is given as to a general description of how heavy a fist sized piece of orichalcum feels like)

QUOTE (John Campbell)
Orichalcum hasn't got an atomic weight. It's not an element.

Says you! nyahnyah.gif

It'd certainly explain why it's so weird, after all. All this time we thought it was an alloy, but it's actually some weird element with 1,337 protons, three and a half neutrons, and some subatomic duct tape (or "Jesus Tape", if you prefer!).
Other than the obvious weapon foci, are there any practical restrictions to the shape and size of a focus? I mean, yah, a pinhead is probably too small and a focus the size of a mack truck while possible would be problematic, but...

Do foci have to be held or worn? Can you swallow a small focus and still use it? Can you stick one in a body compartment and still use it? How about leaving it in your shoe? Dangling from a nosering? Can you make a gauntlet focus and also enchant it as a weapon focus?

The mind ponders...
Herald of Verjigorm
A focus must be in contact with the user. Where homonculus' users are the spirits who inhabit them. The minimum size of a focus is the amount of TN reducing material put in it. You can make a focus too small to keep track of with any reliability, this is usually known as "wasted effort." The common range is from a ring (finger, toe, ear etc.) to an overcoat (not often done, but still not of troublesome bulk).

Yes, internal foci are possible. They were also a bad idea under 2nd edition rules, but more feasible under 3rd.
I remember a character design of a melee adept with hardliner glove weapon foci...
Isn't there something in one of the new books about naturally occuring orichalcum? Didn't "Big D" deed an island which turned out to be full of the stuff to someone in his will?
Jason Farlander
QUOTE (Hecatonchires)
Isn't there something in one of the new books about naturally occuring orichalcum? Didn't "Big D" deed an island which turned out to be full of the stuff to someone in his will?

All known natural orichalcum deposits "dried up" shortly after Halley's Comet passed by. They existed for a time, but not anymore.
There's nothing that states that the radicals HAVE to be used in the focus either. You can burn herbals like incense in the enchanting process. Regardless of how you use the radicals, they are still used in the process.
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