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ScooterinAB
I'm wondering how much shadowrunners usually make per run. I remember that there was thread about it during the summer, but I can't seem to find it. It went over various different jobs and the kind of money you can expect to pull.

If anyone can link me to the thread I'm thinking about, or post some baseline run amounts, I'd appreciate it.
hahnsoo
Searching for "10000 nuyen" came up with this link:
http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=28799

Pretty easy to find.
The Jake
QUOTE (hahnsoo @ Jan 31 2010, 04:03 AM) *
Searching for "10000 nuyen" came up with this link:
http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=28799

Pretty easy to find.


IF you know the exact key words to search for. Why "10000 nuyen" is more obvious instead of say "20000 nuyen" or "typical compensation" is beyond my reckoning.

The guy tried searching for what he thought was obvious (which is more than most) and didn't strike gold. No need to put him down.

- J.
hahnsoo
QUOTE (The Jake @ Jan 31 2010, 12:18 AM) *
IF you know the exact key words to search for. Why "10000 nuyen" is more obvious instead of say "20000 nuyen" or "typical compensation" is beyond my reckoning.

The guy tried searching for what he thought was obvious (which is more than most) and didn't strike gold. No need to put him down.

- J.
No need to read into my words more content than what is listed. Sheesh. I wasn't putting him down.

The Internet. Misconstruing intentions since 199X.
toturi
QUOTE (The Jake @ Jan 31 2010, 01:18 PM) *
IF you know the exact key words to search for. Why "10000 nuyen" is more obvious instead of say "20000 nuyen" or "typical compensation" is beyond my reckoning.

The guy tried searching for what he thought was obvious (which is more than most) and didn't strike gold. No need to put him down.

- J.

That's why the guys that hang around here all the time have an advantage over those that don't. It is kind of like Data Search for "typical compensation" is at a higher Threshold than "10000 nuyen". hahnsoo knows there is a thread that deals with pay that uses "10000 nuyen", so he is searching at a lower Threshold (hmmm, maybe this could work for legwork: Knowledge check for certain data that would lead to a lower threshold for the Data Search test... interesting...)
hahnsoo
QUOTE (toturi @ Jan 31 2010, 12:47 AM) *
That's why the guys that hang around here all the time have an advantage over those that don't. It is kind of like Data Search for "typical compensation" is at a higher Threshold than "10000 nuyen". hahnsoo knows there is a thread that deals with pay that uses "10000 nuyen", so he is searching at a lower Threshold (hmmm, maybe this could work for legwork: Knowledge check for certain data that would lead to a lower threshold for the Data Search test... interesting...)
Erm. Actually, I just thought "Hey, our Shadowrun group has a payout of about 10000 nuyen per runner per job. Maybe I should try that out." I most certainly would have tried another search string if that one didn't come up with paydata. *grin*
Method
The search function isn't the friendliest, so let me help you out:

An advanced topic search for "payment" yields THIS.
An advanced topic search for "typical" THIS.
An advanced topic search for "standard" THIS.

For tips on how I found these, check out the link in my sig. grinbig.gif
ScooterinAB
QUOTE (hahnsoo @ Jan 30 2010, 10:03 PM) *


Thanks for the link. After I had trouble with the search, I'd tried going back, page by grueling page, looking for this post I have in mind. Although that one isn't the exact post, it does have what I'm looking for.

Thanks everyone.
Rand
This something I have a big contention with. Unless you are doing only street level jobs (knocking over a liquor store, roughing up hookers, etc.), you would have to make more than a few thousand nuyen - even if it is each. A few thousand nuyen doesn't buy any kind of silence, especially when you are dealing with multi-billion nuyen corporations' secrets.

Yes, we have to suspend our belief somewhat, it is a game afterall, but I still disagree with this part. The cost of keeping up multiple aliases alone is a serious financial drain when you count in all the stuff that goes into it (not just a different "ID Card").

One time I jumped in a Rolemaster Black-Ops game (modern, mercenary, military style game) and quickly set the group straight. They were doing it like shadowrun, taking jobs in which they got shot at, used espensive materials, and all that for chump change. I got them into the Corporate Security buz, incorporated the organization and began to get us hired on jobs in which hundreds of thousands of dollars was generally the minimum payment - the norm usually was in the 1-4 million range.

Like I said earlier, if you are playing a street level punk, the kchump change is what you work for, but if you have to deal with corporations and keep yourself from being picked up by the authorities, the minimum you should be getting paid is in the tens of thousands range. It costs lots of money to be a high-ranking criminal, why do you think they combine into groups? Pooling resources. (Among other bennies.)
Johnny Hammersticks
Some of the money I've seen GMs sat runners make in other threads wouldn't entice me if I was the player.

Generally, if it is a several session run where corporate goons are chasing the players down and there is a real possibility of getting wounded or killed, the base pay would be 10K per player. Again, this is a very ballpark figure.

Hagga
Short answer: Approximately the karma value of the team times 1500 as the total pay, with items added in. Minimum pay of 2k a player.

Long answer: Depends on the campaign level and power level of the player. A dumbshit group of gangers might get 500 nuyen each and a crate of handguns. A covert ops specialist gets 50000 nuyen, minus what he needs to make the run, with items provided. A mage picks up some telesma and a wad of nuyen, along with a mystically enforced "favor owed". Use your own discretion - players want to be able to buy big stuff. Let them have some, then flush the rest of their money away.
Ascalaphus
(Runs per month * (Nuyen payout - (Expenses - Loot))) - Lifestyle = how much the characters Advance, materially.

Expenses can be high or low; bullets are cheap, and hacking and facework too. Missiles, bound spirits and drones are dearer. Lifestyle is variable.

Some characters are more karma-oriented in advancement, some more money-oriented. It's perhaps best to keep the money profit near to the karma profit of advantures, so:

Advance / 2500 = (Karma payout * Runs per month) [assuming the 2500 nuyen per karma from karmagen rules]



The big variables here are Lifestyle, Expenses and Loot. They're dependent on your game style; street adventures feature a lot of looting, lower expenses and lower lifestyle; so Nuyen payout can be low. Flashy violent games call for higher lifestyles, biiiig expenses and likely not as much looting (less time before HTR arrives).

Expenses can be rather a lot; if you need new guns without 'prints on it for every run, new SINs and so forth, then payout needs to be big too.

Also, if getting captured or losing gear are possibilities, affording replacement should be doable too.

Lifestyle.. I think most believable PCs would want a good lifestyle, even if it eats money that can be used to become a better runner. Saving up to buy a permanent Luxury lifestyle should be the goal of a majority of runners.

Loot.. if the value of enemies' gear exceeds payout, it's better to become a professional robber/thief rather than a runner. This requires some attention to maintain plausibility. (Unless money isn't your motivation for running, but that's an alternative kind of game, really. Not that it's wrong, but it's not the default.)
Method
I would advise against using a meta-game based formula in isolation. You have to consider the economic forces that exist within the world. Thats why the old "Grand Theft: SR" argument is reiterated time and again. You can read about it in any of the *numerous* threads, but the gist is if your runners aren't making more for a run than they could make stealing a car (or raiding commlinks, or whatever), you're doing something wrong.
Saint Sithney
I guess he should have done a search for "search" so he could find a thread on searching properly...
DireRadiant
Pay them less then they want, and more then they need.

The players/PC decide what is worth their time. Not the GM.
Celt IMC
Like spaceships fly at the speed of plot, runners get paid at an appropriate rate. smile.gif It's going to vary with campaign style, level and needs.

Edit: Looking back, that's not a lot of help. Use the references you've been previously given, but monitor the game and be open to change as GM and player.
TheOneRonin
Something that gets missed a lot, even in the Shadowrun rulebooks is that being a professional (non-street) runner is EXPENSIVE. Lifestyle costs are only part of the equation. Almost everything from Contacts to Fake SINs requires (or should require) some sort of upkeep. Sure your 400BP Sammy may only have a $5k/month middle lifestyle, but his monthly expenses should total about double that. When you start doing runs with that in mind, $10k/runner for each run doesn't sound all that high.

Also, consider job pacing. Let me give you a scenario that happened years back with my gaming group. We were all in college, and I had been running for the same group for about two and a half years. The runners were quite experienced, and had recently pulled off a few very big scores in a row. So they started getting a bit too big for their britches, and began to turn down runs that didn't have wind-fall payouts. So the jobs started getting fewer and farther between. Expenses started mounting up, and the runners weren't drawing any income at all. After many months (game time, not real time), the team got humble and started taking the $50k jobs again, if for nothing than to pad their expenses.

Remember, it's not JUST about how much each run pays out, but how far those runs are between each other, and what the runners' expenses are between the runs.
Professor Evil Overlord
The SR3 Shadowrun Companion had a table of pay for typical runs, but the numbers seemed far too low for most runs.

Truthfully, while the pay should vary with job difficulty and the time to actually complete it, where to set your base line really depends on your play style. It is essential to give the players an idea of what a typical offer is, whatever you decide to make it, right from the start. Players should be encouraged to turn down runs whose pay does match the danger or complexity or the job. Remind your players they are pros, and should expect a certain pay level, but shouldn't turn down a job just because of low pay.

I'd recommend a minimum of about 2k per runner, as that will barely cover expenses for the run itself (paying contacts, ammo and expendables used, etc.), and only this low an amount if there is some other reward for the run. As many have said, jobs should probably pay out about a minimum of 10k per runner per job for anything other than street level chump work - if the pay was much less Johnson would've hired gangers and not pros. An occasional windfall run is also a good idea, with a high payout of maybe 5 to 10 times normal, with a similar increase in difficulty.

Rotbart van Dainig
Honestly, with the expenses and dangers runners face - if you don't make the average annual per capita income within a month... switch fixer or profession.
Smokeskin
I balanced it around the speed I wanted the players to develop. Take their running costs between payouts (not just lifestyle put equipment replacement and such too), add to that how much money you want them to get towards buying new gear, and you have the average payout. Vary it around a bit so they get frustrated at being broke at times, and feel great about getting a lucky break and getting new toys at others.

There's just no fun if players lack money to develop their PCs at a satisfying, or if they get so much money they can just choose whatever they want.
Ascalaphus
I'm puzzling with the proper budget..

What I want, is for most normal equipment to be easily replaceable. If characters get captured and lose their gear, replacing it shouldn't be too hard. Getting hands on enough gear to complete a job should be a plot element sometimes; it works often enough in movies.

The problem is that gamers tend to think in long-term, permanent acquisition. I heard someone compare getting captured in D&D to getting killed; better to start a new character with full gear than to be rescued without gear. That's not the way I wanna play.
Garou
That's very interesting. Because i am running the Denver Missions at TR 2 (Karma 40+) and the usual payout per run is 5k to 7k per runner. And those are supposed to be RAW, or so i thought. Okay, the oposition rarely gets extremely high. After 17 runs, there was only two mages that had PC-level power, only 1 team of real enemy runners, with 400 bp builds, and 1 Force 6 Sprite. Higher NPC Spirit foce so far was 5, and only one appeareance of a HTR team, which the players evaded with ease using a different way out from the building. So, are things fair or not on denver, when we talk about payment?
TheOneRonin
QUOTE (Garou @ Feb 2 2010, 12:43 PM) *
That's very interesting. Because i am running the Denver Missions at TR 2 (Karma 40+) and the usual payout per run is 5k to 7k per runner. And those are supposed to be RAW, or so i thought. Okay, the oposition rarely gets extremely high. After 17 runs, there was only two mages that had PC-level power, only 1 team of real enemy runners, with 400 bp builds, and 1 Force 6 Sprite. Higher NPC Spirit foce so far was 5, and only one appeareance of a HTR team, which the players evaded with ease using a different way out from the building. So, are things fair or not on denver, when we talk about payment?



It's more of a flaw with the system than anything else. $5k - $7k per run makes sense from a mechanical and character progression approach, but is WAY out of whack with the rest of the world. My guess is the prices of gear/ware were written with the assumption that 400BP runners will make about this much per run, with 2 - 3 runs per month.

Too bad that doesn't line up with the economy and fluff that runs the rest of the SR world. Or how shit works in real life.

Garou
Well, Denver Runs are generaly easy, and not very convoluted. The printed scenarios i've seen pay better, but they are MUCH harder on the characters, as they have multiple levels of legwork, harder enemies and NPCS that are not "just your average security with an unmodified Ares Predator" as happens on the denver runs.

Ascalaphus
I think the point of low RAW payments is to prevent people from affording too much gear. This approach has drawbacks;

- It's rather unrealistic to pay that little for skill, danger, discretion and loyalty
- It means that losing too much equipment is like permanent stat damage, better roll up a new character
- It means that accidentally getting lucky looting will shatter this precariously built balance


We'd be better off with power less determined by what equipment you have, and more by how effectively you can use equipment; inherent coolness of a character that can't be gained or lost so haphazardly.
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