After reading through the book I find more and more rules that I didn't remember seeing before and I wanted to make a complete list of the limits to new characters. My general opinion is that the limits might be a bit harsh at times but I completely understand why they are there - to force players away from one-trick ponies and also leave room for character improvement later on (if you start with max in your relevant stats and skills and completely gimped on the rest you can not improve, only become more diverse)

So, this is the things I have found so far, please help with additional ones. I want to make an easy to read list that I can hand out to players.


BP: Max 400
(GM may of course change this for campains where less or more powerful characters are desired)

Karma: Max 750
(se above)

Attributes: Max one at racial maximum.

Attributes (BP): Max half starting BP may be spent on Attributes
(Edge, Resonance and Magic not included in this limit)

Attributes (karma): Max half starting karma (+ metatypeBP cost x 2) may be spent on Attributes
(Including special attributes!)

Resoources: Max 50 BP (for total 250,000)
Can be increased to total 330,000 through Born Rich (10bp) quality (for another 50,000) and In Dept 6 (+30,0000) negative quality.

Resources: Max availability 12
Up to a maximum of three items may be purchased with an availability of 20, each requiring a purchase of the Restricted Gear Positive Quality

Augmentation: You may not begin play with Adapsin

Spells: Max Twice the skill in Spellcasting or Ritual Spellcasting number of spells may be choosen from start
(Specialization does not count towards this rating. (Can be houseruled to allow additional spells of that category))

Augmentations: Available Grades for starting characters are Standard and Alphaware.

Skills: Maximum one at rating 6 OR two at 5, rest is limited to 4.
(One skill can be increased to 7 through the Aptitude quality. If a character has aptitude in a skill they may get
that to 7 or one other skill to 5 and that skill to 6.)
It is possible to obtain bonuses to skills above this limit through qualities or implants like Reflex Recorders.

Skillgroups: Maximum rating 4 from start.
(Can later be increased to 6)

Qualities: Positive Qualities: Maximum 35 BP
Negative Qualities: Maximum 35 BP
(some qualities may be obtained later and negative ones can be payed off where possible)

Max. registered sprites/bound spirits = Charisma
(Not just from start, always in effect)

Complex Forms: ???
Maximum number of complex forms from start? Max rating = Resonance?

what have I missed?

Should probably read:

Resources: Max availability 12
Up to a maximum of three items may be purchased with an availability of 20, each requiring a purchase of the Restricted Gear Positive Quality

Augmentation: You may not begin play with Adapsin

You guess correctly: Edge, Magic and Resonance are all exempt from the 50% attribute expenditure cap.

Also:
Max. registered sprites/bound spirits = Charisma

I would encourage the optional rule of allowing skill groups to be split up at chargen, but maybe that's getting in the way of simplicity.

Thanks, updated with your wording (way simpler!)
Allso added the bound spirits one written by Aerospider


This makes me wonder if I should add another list of general limitations (like max 6 in skills, max on bound spirits, max force on spells, and so on but maybe that's less useful)

Qualities should be:-

Up to 35 pts of positive qualities. Up to 35 points of negative qualities.

Not an issue in 4ed - spells are learned forcelessly (caster chooses the force at time of casting)

These aren't maximums. Starting BP or Karma amount is simply GM fiat. 400/750 is just the recommended amount.



Should read either

Augmentations: Max grade for starting characters is Alphaware.
or
Augmentations: Availables Grades for starting characters are Standard and Alphaware.



Should be:

Positive Qualities: Maximum 35 BP
Negative Qualities: Maximum 35 BP

And then there's SURGE III, the effects of which on those caps is still under debate.

This time you guess wrong. Specializations do not increase the skill rating, thus they do not apply to the maximum of spells. It would be an interesting houserule though. It would encourage at least spellcasters to take specializations at CharGen.

Alright, updated with the suggestions above and added a small comment on skill max levels. Not 100% sure about what happens with Aptitude though, do you really get one at 6 and another at 5 or that skill to 7 (no skills at 5 or 6)?

I'm not quite sure what you mean, but all aptitude does is raise the natural maximum for one skill to 7 and the augmented maximum to 10.

Some rules weasels have argued that since the rules say one skill at 6 or two at 5, and a skill of 7 is neither a 6 nor a 5, that they can have the skill of 7 and then get a skill of 6 or two at 5, too.

Note on build points vs. karmagen: for build points, the limit on how much you can spend on Attributes does not include the special Attributes. In karmagen, it does include the special Attributes.

For skills, you should specify that those are the starting unmodified limits to skills. There are a few things that can modify skill ratings - the improved ability adept power, reflex recorders, and move-by-wire.

For the first point, that is obviously going agienst the intent of the rules. A skill at 7 is obviously you one skill at max rating.

For the second, I know the rules say that special attributes it included in the limit, but under SR4A that's really crippling, just so you know.

Also forgot max no. spells and max no. complex forms.

- J.

I agree on both points, and have vehemently argued the second one. Which is especially true for awakened characters.


For knowledge skill points, you can only purchase additional points equal to (Intuition + Logic) x 3. In other words, you can start out with a maximum of double the "free" points. They are further limited in the same way that active skills are (one of 6 or two of 5).

So, I write it as Special not included for BP (but for karma). One further question then. Do special attributes also count for "max one at racial max"? I.e can an orc have both 6 reaction (racial max) and 6 Edge (racial max)?

Including Special attributes for max 200 bp seems stupid, then it should read max spent on attributes + special attributes AND cyberware = 200 BP




Will add that one too. Do you get any "free points" in karma-gen too?

Also updating the skills for skill boost stuff like reflex recorders.

Augmentation: You may not begin play with Adapsin

It does not say this in the book!

Quoted from the book:

Adapsin is new to the market in 2070 and should not be available at character creation.

Should not in this case as I see it does not mean you can't it means the GM should approve your giveing it to your character before you take it.

That is true, and with 20A it means it has been out for 2 years and could be possible BUT, that goes for every single rule and limitation in my list. If the campaign allows it or the GM wants to you can lift or ease any of those restrictions. I myself have not used most of them until very recently when my players got the impression that you needed 16+ dice pools on your relevant tests and even if it of course is very possible to do that within the limitations it is a bit less.

I added a question in the original post that I can repeat here (to make it visible): Max number on complex forms and max rating to start with? Do you get software x 2 different complex forms or is there a limit similar to spells at all?

In karma-gen, you do not get "free" knowledge skills - you have to buy them.