Full Version: Augmenting and Availability
So there is a new movie coming out called Repo Men (Trailer)
To me this is sorta like how I imagined SR augmenting: a major surgery in a big hospital, a massive debt to pay off and people very willing to 'take it out of your hide' if you cant pay back the money or be of worth (ie be in their debt) to them.
How ever in SR canon augmenting is more like say, have new contact lenses prescribed. A quick procedure (probably in a shopping mall), slight adjustment of the baseline model to fit each individual and only a relatively minor cost.
Does anyone play SR the first way ?
QUOTE (Acidsaliva @ Feb 4 2010, 04:41 PM) 
So there is a new movie coming out called Repo Men (Trailer)
To me this is sorta like how I imagined SR augmenting: a major surgery in a big hospital, a massive debt to pay off and people very willing to 'take it out of your hide' if you cant pay back the money or be of worth (ie be in their debt) to them.
How ever in SR canon augmenting is more like say, have new contact lenses prescribed. A quick procedure (probably in a shopping mall), slight adjustment of the baseline model to fit each individual and only a relatively minor cost.
Does anyone play SR the first way ?
To me this is sorta like how I imagined SR augmenting: a major surgery in a big hospital, a massive debt to pay off and people very willing to 'take it out of your hide' if you cant pay back the money or be of worth (ie be in their debt) to them.
How ever in SR canon augmenting is more like say, have new contact lenses prescribed. A quick procedure (probably in a shopping mall), slight adjustment of the baseline model to fit each individual and only a relatively minor cost.
Does anyone play SR the first way ?
For the Higher end stuff maybe, but really, there is a lot of 'ware that is functionally ubiquitous... so it makes sense to have some procedures done in the mall...
Keep the Faith
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Feb 4 2010, 10:00 PM)
For the Higher end stuff maybe, but really, there is a lot of 'ware that is functionally ubiquitous... so it makes sense to have some procedures done in the mall...
Keep the Faith
Keep the Faith
You probably get a Starbucks coffee for free too.
QUOTE (Draco18s @ Feb 4 2010, 08:11 PM)
You probably get a Starbucks coffee for free too.
Of Course... Why Not?
Keep the Faith
Maybe an Atzlaner Double soy Latte Machiaddo. LOL
Shadowrun has a unique, and contradictory duality.
On the one hand 'ware is supposedly ubiquitous, cheap (relatively), and a tried and tested technology by 2072. Yet you can't throw a rock without hitting a cyberware scanner and needing licenses and papers for your cyber ware. This and the essence upper ceiling creates the point where magic becomes disproportionately attractive. If you instituted the system like you suggest it would be even more pointless.
My personal, and perhaps minority opinion, is that cyberware is too limited in the game by percieved notions of game balance, balance in fact that doesn't exist in the system. Almost anything that cyber can do magic can do better. If cyberware was really doing amazing and superhuman things then maybe the kind of situations your proposing might be appropriate.
On the one hand 'ware is supposedly ubiquitous, cheap (relatively), and a tried and tested technology by 2072. Yet you can't throw a rock without hitting a cyberware scanner and needing licenses and papers for your cyber ware. This and the essence upper ceiling creates the point where magic becomes disproportionately attractive. If you instituted the system like you suggest it would be even more pointless.
My personal, and perhaps minority opinion, is that cyberware is too limited in the game by percieved notions of game balance, balance in fact that doesn't exist in the system. Almost anything that cyber can do magic can do better. If cyberware was really doing amazing and superhuman things then maybe the kind of situations your proposing might be appropriate.
Augmentation states that cyberware implantation can be done by Bodyshops and Street Docs, the first of which can almost certainly be found in Malls. The latter of which ain't even to be found in Malls. They're somewhere out in the sprawl.
So, yeah.
So, yeah.
QUOTE (LurkerOutThere @ Feb 6 2010, 07:45 AM)
Shadowrun has a unique, and contradictory duality.
On the one hand 'ware is supposedly ubiquitous, cheap (relatively), and a tried and tested technology by 2072. Yet you can't throw a rock without hitting a cyberware scanner and needing licenses and papers for your cyber ware. This and the essence upper ceiling creates the point where magic becomes disproportionately attractive. If you instituted the system like you suggest it would be even more pointless.
My personal, and perhaps minority opinion, is that cyberware is too limited in the game by percieved notions of game balance, balance in fact that doesn't exist in the system. Almost anything that cyber can do magic can do better. If cyberware was really doing amazing and superhuman things then maybe the kind of situations your proposing might be appropriate.
On the one hand 'ware is supposedly ubiquitous, cheap (relatively), and a tried and tested technology by 2072. Yet you can't throw a rock without hitting a cyberware scanner and needing licenses and papers for your cyber ware. This and the essence upper ceiling creates the point where magic becomes disproportionately attractive. If you instituted the system like you suggest it would be even more pointless.
My personal, and perhaps minority opinion, is that cyberware is too limited in the game by percieved notions of game balance, balance in fact that doesn't exist in the system. Almost anything that cyber can do magic can do better. If cyberware was really doing amazing and superhuman things then maybe the kind of situations your proposing might be appropriate.
The Vast Majority of Cyberware is actually unregulated and completely legal to obtain and use... in this instance, the cyberware scanners really mean very little, since even if they detect such 'ware, the authorities will generally have no recourse against the possessor... and such ware does not require any licensing of the end user either...
I would think that this alone makes Cyberware somewhat Ubiquitous at that point... so much so that the proliferation of scanners means very little... the scanners are there to detect the "Illegal and Restricted" 'ware, which admittedly exist in most 'Runners, but not in the vast majority of normal citizens
As for Magic being more powerful... I would have to disagree somewhat, because magic is vastly more rare... Magic is not ubiquitous as compared to the proliferationof 'Ware... I really have yet to see a magical character with 20 Health Boxes Physical for example... I have actually seen that with a Mundane using Cyber... I would consider that being somewhat amazing and superhuman in and of itself... Magic on the other hand requires that you be licensed JUST BECAUSE you are magically capable (assuming that you are a SINner of course)
Just Sayin'
Keep the Faith
QUOTE (LurkerOutThere @ Feb 6 2010, 09:45 AM)
Shadowrun has a unique, and contradictory duality.
On the one hand 'ware is supposedly ubiquitous, cheap (relatively), and a tried and tested technology by 2072. Yet you can't throw a rock without hitting a cyberware scanner and needing licenses and papers for your cyber ware. This and the essence upper ceiling creates the point where magic becomes disproportionately attractive. If you instituted the system like you suggest it would be even more pointless.
My personal, and perhaps minority opinion, is that cyberware is too limited in the game by percieved notions of game balance, balance in fact that doesn't exist in the system. Almost anything that cyber can do magic can do better. If cyberware was really doing amazing and superhuman things then maybe the kind of situations your proposing might be appropriate.
On the one hand 'ware is supposedly ubiquitous, cheap (relatively), and a tried and tested technology by 2072. Yet you can't throw a rock without hitting a cyberware scanner and needing licenses and papers for your cyber ware. This and the essence upper ceiling creates the point where magic becomes disproportionately attractive. If you instituted the system like you suggest it would be even more pointless.
My personal, and perhaps minority opinion, is that cyberware is too limited in the game by percieved notions of game balance, balance in fact that doesn't exist in the system. Almost anything that cyber can do magic can do better. If cyberware was really doing amazing and superhuman things then maybe the kind of situations your proposing might be appropriate.
But not everyone has access to magic "buffs", but ANY person can become stronger, faster, and better through cyberware! If you are a mundane gutterpunk, your only real chance at a better life is to mod up any way you can! Sure, owing money to a street shark is a bad idea, but if you are improved, money will be easier to make! Just keep telling yourself that, omae...
QUOTE (LurkerOutThere @ Feb 6 2010, 09:45 AM)
Shadowrun has a unique, and contradictory duality.
On the one hand 'ware is supposedly ubiquitous, cheap (relatively), and a tried and tested technology by 2072. Yet you can't throw a rock without hitting a cyberware scanner and needing licenses and papers for your cyber ware. This and the essence upper ceiling creates the point where magic becomes disproportionately attractive. If you instituted the system like you suggest it would be even more pointless.
My personal, and perhaps minority opinion, is that cyberware is too limited in the game by percieved notions of game balance, balance in fact that doesn't exist in the system. Almost anything that cyber can do magic can do better. If cyberware was really doing amazing and superhuman things then maybe the kind of situations your proposing might be appropriate.
On the one hand 'ware is supposedly ubiquitous, cheap (relatively), and a tried and tested technology by 2072. Yet you can't throw a rock without hitting a cyberware scanner and needing licenses and papers for your cyber ware. This and the essence upper ceiling creates the point where magic becomes disproportionately attractive. If you instituted the system like you suggest it would be even more pointless.
My personal, and perhaps minority opinion, is that cyberware is too limited in the game by percieved notions of game balance, balance in fact that doesn't exist in the system. Almost anything that cyber can do magic can do better. If cyberware was really doing amazing and superhuman things then maybe the kind of situations your proposing might be appropriate.
Very true. Though from a fluff standpoint magic is supposed to be rare, which is why it is given more leniency in being more powerful than 'ware. Of course from a crunch standpoint magic isn't rare at all, and is in fact quite cheap.
I think that from the word 'go' magic and 'ware is actually reasonably well balanced, but the cost for improvement via 'wave has massive increases while the cost for improvement via magic has only minimal ones. For example, going from standard ware to beta ware is a 4x increase in the cost, while going from first initiation grade to the second initiation grade is only a 1.3x increase.
QUOTE (Karoline @ Feb 6 2010, 10:08 AM)
Very true. Though from a fluff standpoint magic is supposed to be rare, which is why it is given more leniency in being more powerful than 'ware. Of course from a crunch standpoint magic isn't rare at all, and is in fact quite cheap.
I think that from the word 'go' magic and 'ware is actually reasonably well balanced, but the cost for improvement via 'wave has massive increases while the cost for improvement via magic has only minimal ones. For example, going from standard ware to beta ware is a 4x increase in the cost, while going from first initiation grade to the second initiation grade is only a 1.3x increase.
I think that from the word 'go' magic and 'ware is actually reasonably well balanced, but the cost for improvement via 'wave has massive increases while the cost for improvement via magic has only minimal ones. For example, going from standard ware to beta ware is a 4x increase in the cost, while going from first initiation grade to the second initiation grade is only a 1.3x increase.
At the same time however, you are earning between 5-10 Karma for a run and likely far more than 1000x that in nuyen. So I don't see it as a bad thing per se as the magically active have to improve their magic, gear, skills, and stats. Non-magicals just need to worrry about gear, skills, and stats. Basically, non-magicals have one less category to worrry about improving while earning the same rewards as magicals.
BTW, your initiation formula is incorrect. It's 10 + (3 * Initiation Grade attempting). So it's 13 for Rank 1, 16 for 2, 19, for 3, etc and also limited by the current Magic stat which progresses like any other stat. So that "unlimited" magical power progression gets damn expensive within a couple of increases. I should also add, there's no trade-in value for existing Initiation ranks like there is with implant upgrades.
Whereas going from standard to alpha is 2x cost (compared against standard) but it does give a 20% discount on Essence Costs. You already showed Betaware's costs but keep in mind that it also gives a 30% discount on Essence costs in addition to the other benefits one gets from increased grade 'ware (harder to damage, detect, etc).
Sure 'ware has higher numerical costs, but the accrual rate of money to pay for it is significantly higher than the karmic acccrual rate.
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