We had a bit of a conundrum during a recent game when a player wanted to use the Mind Probe power. The spell's range is T (touch), but it says that the target may not know who is probing thier mind. How are you not going to know that the person touching them is the one casting the spell? Sort of rediculous. Looking further, all the Detect spells have a range of Touch - even the "extended" spells. How is this really working? If it works like it says in the main Detection spells description, then why don't all the Range attributes just say Special, or something like that? Why do they say Touch? That is very confusing because it makes it seem as though you have to touch the target for the spell to work.

The Touch range is for the person gaining the sense, the range of the sense is limited by the Detection ranges. (p. 205 SR4A, Detection Spells)

Yeah, the detection spells really need to be explained a little better,

My interpretation is that the spellcaster has to touch the target in order to cast the spell. The target will (obviously) know that the magician is touching him, but doesn't know that the magician is casting a spell, unless the spell's Force is high enough for the target to perceive.

[To perceive a spell, the observer has to make a Perception test, difficulty 6-Force.]

No, Bishop is right on that one. The range on detection spells is for the subject of the spell, ie: the person getting the supernatural sense, which is usually the mage himself (and then touching is easy), but can be anyone he wants. He doesn't have to touch anything the spell then manages to detect, as the range of the senses given by the spells are longer than touch (and described in the rulebook).
Extended spells have a significantly longer spell range, but you still need to touch the subject that'll get to benefit from the spell.

It is easier to understand for things like Thermographic vision. You need to touch the person that gains the new sense, thermographic (but the range of thermographic vision is not touch)

I have, however, houseruled that Mind Probe is Touch in range as well since it is game-breaking enough as it is and at least you can defend against creepy mages fondling you by smacking them in the head. That way it becomes more of a quick interrogation tool rather than free access to everyone's secrets and a complete replacement for a lot of Charisma-skills.

It is easier to understand for things like Thermographic vision. You need to touch the person that gains the new sense, thermographic (but the range of thermographic vision is not touch)

I have, however, houseruled that Mind Probe is Touch in range as well since it is game-breaking enough as it is and at least you can defend against creepy mages fondling you by smacking them in the head. That way it becomes more of a quick interrogation tool rather than free access to everyone's secrets and a complete replacement for a lot of Charisma-skills.

I've generally ruled that Mind Probe can only be used on unconscious targets that you can touch (like a Vulcan mind-meld), but they will have no knowledge of having been subjected to it when they awaken (although a spell signature may well remain if the magician doesn't do something about it). Call it a nerf if you like, but I think that this spell really needs one.

[plug] SR3R corrected this problem by specifying caster, subject and target. People are welcome to read how we fixed our detection spell system and port it over to SR4 [/plug]

By the novels, mind probe is always obvious. It has been described as 'mind rape'. The books don't mention this specifically, but if you accept the novels as canon, there is no way to cast a surreptitious mind probe. (They may not know who did it - catch the target in a group hug or knock him out prior.)

Agreed. I just made it clear to our mage in chargen that I was not keen on him taking Mind Probe. He agreed, and we just pretend the spell doesn't exist in my game.

They could totally do that in SR4A, oh wait.

We make it touch range in effect and now I kind of like it. It is a whole heck of a lot better than having to deal with all the interrogation scenes players seem to come up with.

How would you like to make this clearer? If you can suggest new wording, I'll pass it up the chain.

Seemed pretty clear to me Bishop...

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