Hi All,

I am curious do EMP grenades affect cyberware?

AFAIK no. The OOC explanation is because they are paid for with essence and are generally considered part of the body for basically everything. The IC explanation could be that they are shielded. A bit weak I know, because the counter-argument is "If they are shielded, why isn't everything?", but it is all I can think of off hand.

The IC explanation is that they now use optics for everything (apparently including motors. Future science is great!) Hence, there's nothing for EMP to disrupt.

Funny enough, vehicles CAN be disrupted by EMP. There was a weapon in, I believe, Rigger 3, which used EMP to shut down the engine. I guess they figured fiber optics can run motors but can't fire spark plugs.

EMP isn't really implemented very well in the game. The book says that "some" older tech is vulnerable to it, if it's not optical yet. On the other hand, there's Hardening available for drones/vehicles and commlinks. (Which is rather unimpressive, by the way)


Way I figure it, any martial oriented tech is effectively immune, while civilian tech that doesn't expect EMPs isn't. Most runner gear will be immune.

The weak point in any protected device is the "entrance" however: it's Signal antenna. So for me, those are the only things that can be damaged by EMP. Still useful for putting down remote-controlled drones and hackers, though.

(Note: this is house rule territory, because RAW is too vague.)

I'm curious what an EMP would do to a battery. I assume all these devices still need to be powered, and the copper to the alternator/battery can't swapped out for optical.

it should have little to no effect on a battery. It works well on instrumentation and power transmission wires because they act like an antenna and pick up the emission. also its more a problem with delecate electronics, old vacuum tubes are fairly resistant the older transisters are ok but modern microchips are so sensitive to out of tolerance voltage and current levels that they have to be heavily shielded. Consumer level stuff isnt shielded or designed to be impurvious because its expensive to do so. if the emp is powerful enough it "could" melt an alternator but they are really just coils of wire so its hard to disrupt it in a meaningful manner. I've seen some experiments showing emp shutting down some fairly simple gasoline engines that dont have computers but I do not know exactly how the setup interfered.

The OOC answer is: EMP effect whatever the GM decides they do (hopefully you have a GM who allows reasonable discussion about such vague rules). The "paid for with essence" argument is pretty specific to the effects of magical phenomenon on cyber, and doesn't really apply here. Besides its kind of lame to say the sammy's cybereyes and cyberears are protected because he paid with essence but the rigger's drones (arguably his "eyes and ears") aren't because he only paid with money. The rigger spent BP for his drones too and may have paid essence for the ware to use them better.

Anyway, I would argue that cyberware that uses DNI could potentially be affected, since DNI would require an electrical interface of some kind. Granted, you could theoretically have a biochemical interface (a synthetic synapse with synthetic neurotransmitters) I suppose. But you certainly can't interface an optical circuit with a neuron (generally speaking... I can think of one way, but it would require genetic alteration for even the simplest DNI).

Hardening rating 6 costs 150 nuyen or so, right? And the EMP test is Devicerating x 2 + Hardening (3) test to resist the EMP making a device rating 3 able to buy hits (3 x 2 + 6 = 12, 12/4 = 3) to ignore the EMP and it is pratically free to upgrade all your stuff with immunity too it. No rigger would save 150nuyen on his 54000 nuyen drone and have it vunerable.

I think the effect on gear that is "immune" but not hardned is that it looses 3 signal rating if it fails the EMP test (unless it is of such nature that it actually gets hurt but as mentioned, rules say very little of what that might be)

One reason cyberware might be extra resistant is that it is in a kind of faraday's cage (the wearer)?

Cyberware could also be already hardened.

I mean think about it, The rules say that cyberware is not affected. Maybe the designers put the hardening in as a "durability" perk.

Cyberware is hardened because players take it personally if their PCs get mutilated. Note the lack of rules for mutilation - people don't like it so much.

The obvious question then is: why isn't everything else hardened? I tried searching for how to protect against EMP, but wikipedia was surprisingly uninformative. I need to look into this further.

The reason Wiki is uninformative is because EMP hardening techniques are not common.

Think about it. IRL, the only way to generate a significant EM Pulse is a nuclear weapon.

I have a mage with a EMP spell in my SR3 game.
The way I run it is the cyberware takes stun damage resisted by body (which is repaired by the nanite repair crews who are constantly cleaning and updating the cyber connections.) Healing in normal time frames.

Clunky but the best trade off for a spell that is just an elemental effect. It can and does disrupt and burn out radio equip.

They have an EMP grenade, in arsenal, Page 57

here is one bit from it, ""Th ough most electronics in 2070 are optical based,
an EMP blast can still aff ect power supplies, anything linked to an
antenna or electric cable, or older/cheaper devices with integrated
circuits, transistors, inductors, or silicon chips. Most cyberware is
also unaff ected; RFID chips, however, are extremely vulnerable
to EMP attacks."

Then ofcourse there is the ever present GM determines what devices are affected, theres a test, and a listing of possible results of failing said test, such as power serge data erased ect, So what does this mean? it means always run your best gear off of vacum tubes

I still think giving cyberware a pass just because it's cyberware is lame. If you're going to include EMP in your game and then nerf them such that they don't do anything why bother? Make them work, and then give PCs the means to protect themselves.

And I would not allow the "rating 3 + hardening 6 = buy successes FTW". The rules are quite clear that buying sucesseses should only be allowed in situations where success is a foregone conclusion. The simple fact that you have the bare minimum dice needed to buy the 3 successes kind of precludes that option. I might allow it for a rating 6 hardening 6 device if the consequences weren't that serious. Then again I generally dislike the rules for buying successes because I think it's too often misinterpreted, over used and reduces the game to an exercise in moving around build points. But that's just me.

Not to derail but is this directed at my post? Cos it is SR3 long before arsenal came into being and yes I know about the grenade there in. The rules on the er medusa drone in shut down is a possible other anvenue for EMP vs cyber...

To Pendaric, Method, & Ascalaphus: Would you allow the players to buy EMP Hardening for each piece of cyberware? If so would it be at the grade of the 'Ware or would be a flat price?

Just stay out of the swamp.
</reference to insects in the computer causing "bugs">

I would allow it. I'd make the cost a flat rate as is, and maybe limit max hardening to device rating (for cyberware and all other devices). I would also give a DP mod for custom cyberware (+1 per grade above standard or something like that).

ya might joke about having everything based on vacuum tubes but russia did just that on some of their supersonic fighters or bombers well after most other countries had moved to silicon.

From what I've found, hardening against EMP is possible; it just isn't done that often, because EMP is rare. If EMP grenades become a part of normal military and terrorist reality (plausible), then hardening will become more common.

I don't want to start checking out all the dozens of tech gadgets everyone carries with them every time someone throws an EMP grenade. It'd bog down the game, and equipment resupply costs would go through the roof.

Like I said earlier, I think any equipment meant to be used in combat will be shielded as part of the standard cost. It doesn't need to make any roll either; it's secure by design.

The only real vulnerable things are
-Civilian products (if cheapass; executive gear is secure, such as high-end commlinks)
-Signal; it needs to be exposed in order to function

EMP grenades are still useful against drones and communications, but that's basically it. If a Signal chip is damaged, it needs to be replaced though.

EMP screws up more than just transmitters. if ya set up a nonexplosive pulse generator most gasoline engines can be shut down. Incandescent light bulbs can pop, LED's can get fried; remember those wires that bring them power act like big antennas. Most or All consumer electronics could be turned into junk even if they have no transmitter or reciever.

*nod* Our team created basically a satchel EMP connected to a commlink and some high-stickum, and attached it under a truck we needed to hijack. Waited for it to get well out of town, in the evening when not much was close to them on the road, then set off the EMP and moved in. I think we caught one other car in it and had a second need to make a crash test to avoid - not bad for collateral damage.

I would do a one off cost to harden the ware. Lose some EU and call it a day. Less of a threat the way I would run it as it only does tempory damage anyway. Not much worse than a concousion greande.