Modern commercial operating systems (Windows, OS X) come with a bunch of stuff preinstalled. Web browsers, low-grade word processors and image manipulation programs, diagnostic tools, etc. Why should we assume it will be different in the future? Looking at the list of common-use programs on p. 226, SR4, it seems reasonable to me that any of the commercial OS's listed in the gear tables should include low-grade Analyze, Browse, Command and Edit programs by default. Say, with ratings equal to half the OS System rating, rounded up?

• Analyze sounds like a pretty standard system/network diagnostic tool
• Browse seems to be basically a souped-up web browser
• Command is used for things like calling up your SPU on the way home so dinner is ready when you get there
• Edit is every kind of office program rolled into one; it's explicitly described as "see[ing] common usage in the corporate world."

Does this house rule seem reasonable?

And yet, in a world of smart machines, AIs and radically powerful computers and software...
...People are expected to manually do things ??

That's just silly, and pandering to the whole "there's all this tech around, but it's not being used" mentality.

There's likely to be smart avatars to handle day-to-day operation of homebased computer systems [at a minimum].
As you say, there's going to be pre-installed software - almost guaranteed.

Why would pre-installed software be "low grade" ??
Much of what's in my laptop is more than "low grade" - network tools, webbrowser, security, firewall, file manipulation, document production, etc.

I'm not sure what you're saying. What alternative do you envision? That Joe Cubicle says, "Create an animated presentation showing last quarter's earnings," and the Edit program does it automatically? Some things can be automated, some things really can't.


You're describing Agents, which according to RAW need programs to be able to actually do anything.


Well, "low-grade" in this case is a relative term, Rating 1 or 2 out of a possible 6. Also, for balance reasons: if we make the standard software equal to the OS System rating, we risk obviating the need to actually purchase common-use programs at chargen. A hacker will naturally pick up the top-shelf commlink and OS (Fairlight Caliban w/ Novatech Navi), which is System 4.

If there are smart machines, then why wouldn't they e used to take the drudgery out of things...
...Your example is exactly right, since it would have templates, know the data and be able to do most of the work - maybe being able to put in nice, flowery text [obviously for the expensive version].

Yep - avatars/agents - they do what they do, because they have the software and know what to do with it...
...Or don't you envision a technological society capable of self-driving vehicles, smart machines and AIs not able to be smart enough to look after the house, organise your music collection, do your shopping pay your bills, etc ??

As we are the sum of our skills and experience, and avatar/agent would be the sum of its AI and it's software.

Exactly, the real reason things aren't done they way they probably really would be is "balance"...
...If it's so easy for everyone to get high end gear, then high end gear is the average.

The thing is, agents don't have the software. The BBB is pretty explicit on this point: if you want your Agent to be able to perform an Analyze action, you must manually load an Analyze program into it.

I think you might be confusing Agents with Programs. An Agent can use a Program, but it doesn't have the Program built into it. Conversely, a Program might have the functionality to perform a task, but it needs a user or Agent to tell it to do so. If you don't have an Edit program, you can't make that presentation. The OS itself doesn't have that functionality.

What programs a O/S comes packaged with... What O/S a commlink come prepackaged with?

Definitely something I was wondering about to as a newbie because at first, not understanding, I assumed commlinks came with all the legal programs already attached and didn't spend any of my starting cash on it, because I wasn't going to be a hacker... Before I know, I am the most easily computer illiterate, hackable and unable to look up google map to get to the meet character to walk around in 2072 even though I am swimming in other high tech gear and wrote into the back story that he had crossed at least one border and adopted one fake persona so far...

/me confused.

Not having any computer skills is not the same as being unable to use computers.

All the analyzing tools on my computer are pretty specialized.

Browse sounds like a sophisticated data collection tool.

You don't need a command program to tell your home tech when you're going to be home. That's an app... *scroll* *choose "house"* *enter time of arrival*

I've never been too keen on the use of the edit program. It sounds more like a skill.

I think I recall that Browse can automatically collect information, sort it, and put it into folders for you. An Agent Browsing has more dice, and can be programmed to log off when the CorpSec take notice of your search parameters.

Anyway, I can see basic Lv. 1 programs in certain things: browse for internet, edit for (everything), command for home + drones, and anaylze for security. But it really depends on how litterally you want to take it. If you can't do -anything- except surf the web without programs, then throw basic Lv 1's on comlinks. If you don't need Command to tell your toaster to make toast, then just assume comlinks can do the basic stuff and call it good.

Which is presumably why there is only one Analyze tool in SR4: all those specialized functions rolled up into one generic package.

Really?

Sounds more like a combination of the file search tool that any OS has built in plus a locally running version of Google to me.

Actually, by RAW, you do.

Unless you set your menu ahead of time, you have to tell your SPU more than just what time you'll be home. I would rule that a use of the Command program. Also, "app" is short for "application," which is a synonym for "program."

Then you really wouldn't need a tool for it if that was the case. You would use Google's Browse for interweb stuffs, or the local Renraku Organizer for data searches on a Renraku network. Browse software in this case would just get downgraded to a locally running version of google on your network.

in general, your Matrix Service Provider (MSP) includes with their service some limited amount of common-use programs on their central node. you are able to log in to your MSP, and make use of stuff like low-level browse, edit, and scan, iirc, and even on some of the nicer MSP's you have access to low rating agents. it's all in unwired.

and in general, i assume browse is more like a program to dig through the bajillions of hits you're going to get when you're dealing with a society that has cheap data storage to the point where they may as well just save everything. when a simple search returns a library worth of information, you need a good browse program to sort through it all and attempt to determine the materials that are most relevant to you.

also, you can issue orders to things without the command program. the command program doesn't let you order things to do stuff. it lets you directly take over the device. it's like a remote control basically, and it lets you direct down to the tiniest detail what the device is doing.

While this doesn't seem an unreasonable assumption, I would also assume it's so buggy or full of 'we'll report your browsing habits for our marketing purposes' features, no shadowrunner in his right mind would consider using it. They'd rather buy their OS bare bones, stripped down, and build it up themselves with only trusted apps.

Have you seen the program packages on page 232 of SR4A? One could rule that every OS comes with whichever of those packages it can run (has program ratings equal to or less than its Response).

No, I don't play SR4.

My reply was more aimed at the OP.

Alas, I have not. I don't have the Anniversary edition yet, but when I do I'll try to remember to take a look at that, thanks.

there are also "black" MSPs. so named because they are black market MSPs, and cater to the criminal crowd essentially.

that said, i agree that in general a shadowrunner will want to have the programs on their own commlinks. that's fine, i'm just saying it's not standard for a commlink to come with common use programs (other than scan at rating 1) because that's what MSPs do. obviously, shadowrunners are going to be different (and doubtless, some regular people will also want to have their own utilities). but that doesn't make it standard by any means.

There's always the freeware optional rules from Unwired.

Personally, I assume that all new comlinks come with trial versions of the manufacturer's OS and some shit software. Honestly now, no one is going to buy a $4000 computer which can't do anything besides access the BIOS. So, yeah, 30 day trail of all common programs always works for chargen in my experience.