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Aerospider
I've just started a campaign with a Nosferatu PC. I love the character and am looking forward the different approach to runs that is due.

However, there's a problem with the numbers. Creatures with Essence Drain and Essence Loss can only store up to twice the natural Essence (i.e. 12 if unaugmented) and lose a point a month. In addition, they can burn half the Essence they drain by boosting one attribute temporarily. So a starting vampire (Essence 5) can drain 14 Essence and burn seven of them for boosts, but other than that they're limited to their monthly allowance which is to drain two points a month with one going towards a boost and the other feeding the Essence Loss. That's only 24 points over a whole year.

A single victim can supply up to six Essence points, so just three can put the vampire at maximum after which he can only drum his fingers waiting out the lunar cycle.

Although Essence Drain is about the vampire just staying alive, there are the added benefits of boosting an attribute, addicting victims and infecting victims. None of these can be done if the vampire is full.

Now consider the Nosferatu. He has a higher maximum (the wording's ambiguous, I take it to mean a maximum of 18 rather than 24) so can drain 26 Essence and burn 13 of them. But he only loses an Essence point every six months, making his annual drain allowance a pitiful four points. So after his first five victims or so he would have to wait for over a year to be able to infect someone else (as infection requires all Essence to be drained).

This makes for a quick (they are meant to live for centuries) burnout in an aspect of the Infected that is thematically and mechanically interesting. Maybe it's ok that Essence Loss is that low if it's just the bare minimum the vampire needs, but then the vampire should be able to enjoy the experience well abive that minimum in the same way that humans eat a hell of a lot more than what they need just to stay alive.

It can be solved with just one simple house-ruling: all Essence can be used for an attribute boost at any time.

But might that be too much of a gift to an already potent character framework?
What other solutions can people think of?
Rystefn
Make it use an action to convert stored Essence into Attributes, and tell us how it works out, I would say. There's potential there for abuse, but given how many other things in this system have potential for abuse, I'm not sure how much a deterrent that is.
Muspellsheimr
You cannot increase your Essence beyond the maximum allotment (18 in the case of Nosferatu). This has no effect on how much Essence you can drain.
Aerospider
QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ Feb 13 2010, 01:32 AM) *
You cannot increase your Essence beyond the maximum allotment (18 in the case of Nosferatu). This has no effect on how much Essence you can drain.

Hmm, yes I have pondered that and have just checked the wording:

"The Essence Drain power allows a being to drain the Essence from another character, adding drained Essence to the critter's own."

Going super-literal in my reading, I see the two elements (draining and gaining) as two halves of the same event. I.e. if you can't add any Essence to your own you can't take from another. Thematically I suppose it's along the lines of that law of thermodynamics: energy cannot be created or destroyed, merely converted. After all, the act is drawing out the life force and it doesn't fit natural laws that a saturated vessel can attract more of what it's full of.
Draco18s
You have a cup full of tea, its getting cold.

But you're so convinced that this is so good tea you're not willing to get new, hot tea.

So you don't pour it out.

Replace "tea" with "essence."

(Bonus points if you know what book I just quoted. Extra bonus points if that book actually made sense the first time you read it)
Muspellsheimr
QUOTE (Shadowrun 4 Anniversary p.294)
The
critter may drain as many points of Essence as it currently possesses,
with a minimum of 1 point.

A critter can only increase its Essence to
twice its natural maximum.

Two separate effects.
Muspellsheimr
QUOTE (Draco18s @ Feb 12 2010, 07:20 PM) *
You have a cup full of tea, its getting cold.

But you're so convinced that this is so good tea you're not willing to get new, hot tea.

So you don't pour it out.

Replace "tea" with "essence."

But you still want new tea. So you poor new tea. Some overflows & is lost. You still pored new tea.
Aerospider
QUOTE (Draco18s @ Feb 13 2010, 02:20 AM) *
You have a cup full of tea, its getting cold.

But you're so convinced that this is so good tea you're not willing to get new, hot tea.

So you don't pour it out.

Replace "tea" with "essence."

(Bonus points if you know what book I just quoted. Extra bonus points if that book actually made sense the first time you read it)

So ... the analagy is that the vampire doesn't want any more Essence once he's full because 'his own' is of a higher quality? Interesting idea, though not helpful to the problem at hand.

Unless it's meant as a proof by contradiction (people don't actually get that attached to their cold tea => vampires don't get attached to their 'cold' Essence => vampires can drain by 'letting go' of old Essence)?

[no bonus points for me]
Draco18s
QUOTE (Aerospider @ Feb 12 2010, 10:10 PM) *
So ... the analagy is that the vampire doesn't want any more Essence once he's full because 'his own' is of a higher quality? Interesting idea, though not helpful to the problem at hand.

Unless it's meant as a proof by contradiction (people don't actually get that attached to their cold tea => vampires don't get attached to their 'cold' Essence => vampires can drain by 'letting go' of old Essence)?


The analogy from [book title] was replacing "tea" with "knowledge," people want to stop learning new things, even if the things they did learn are wrong.

So whilst not completely appropriate here it is analogous to vampires "being incapable of draining" because they're "full" as opposed to draining and not "filling any more" either because he "poured out old essence" or because the new essence "overflowed" and was lost (in either case the mechanical result is the same).

QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ Feb 12 2010, 09:58 PM) *
But you still want new tea. So you poor new tea. Some overflows & is lost. You still pored new tea.


Exactly.
Or you poured out the old and filled up again. Either case the result is the same, the point I was trying to make: either you can but go nowhere or you can't (and that's the question raised: can he drain again, or can't he?).
Headshot_Joe
Even if he doesn't need the Essence, doesn't stop him from drinking people like freaking Capri-Sun juice pouches, he's still got the dietary requirement of human blood, right?

I believe Essence is to Vampires as the Force is to Jedi according to Kreia from KotOR II. Imagine the Vampire is a sieve, and that the Essence pours into him like water. He can control where that Essence goes, like to sustaining him or boosting an attribute, and if he draws in excess Essence, it simply flows over the edge of the sieve (but in this case does not get absorbed by a bonded Force crystal)...

Either way, it seems to me like he could feed to his undead heart's content...
Aerospider
QUOTE (Headshot_Joe @ Feb 13 2010, 04:23 AM) *
Even if he doesn't need the Essence, doesn't stop him from drinking people like freaking Capri-Sun juice pouches, he's still got the dietary requirement of human blood, right?

Yes, but that's quite distinct from the Essence Drain power. He doesn't need to drain essence when he drinks blood and vice versa. The two do go together very nicely but the dietary requirement is mechanically and thematically insular from Essence Drain/Loss.

@Draco18s - right, gotcha
Patrick the Gnome
Pg.77 Runner's Companion: Magic and Essence
Infected characters with
Essence Drain can only maintain siphoned Essence equal to twice
its natural maximum (from 6 to 12). Any Essence Drained above
that point is simply lost.

So a vamp can drain when sated, it just doesn't do anything for him, helpful if you want to infect someone but not if you want to gain the benefits of Essence Drain boosting. I think the power is designed that way to prevent people from abusing drain boosts. Certainly allowing essence to be used for that purpose at any time after draining would be horribly broken. That would basically make it so that a vamp would have about a +3 to magic or any other physical or mental stat at all times with no penalties except the need to kill people every 12 hours. Considering that vamps keep half the essence they drain for this boost afterwards, thus meaning that they can't use the boost infinetly even if they maintain low essence and only drain to boost, it's pretty clear that the game designers wanted this use of this power to be few and far between.
Muspellsheimr
QUOTE (Aerospider @ Feb 12 2010, 06:20 PM) *
It can be solved with just one simple house-ruling: all Essence can be used for an attribute boost at any time.

But might that be too much of a gift to an already potent character framework?
What other solutions can people think of?

QUOTE (Shadowrun 4 House Errata)
p.288 Essence Drain
Change the last paragraph to:
“If pressed, a critter can siphon its stolen life force into other attributes, including (and often especially) Magic. Doing so takes a Complex Action, and the critter can increase a single Mental or Physical attribute, or Magic, by up to +1 for every 2 full points of Essence it possesses. Only one attribute may be boosted at a time. This attribute boost lasts for a number of minutes equal to the critters Essence, and the critter looses a number of Essence equal to the increase when the boost ends.”

Ophis
Muspellsheimer - I've been using that as a house rule in one of my games for a while (we had a vamp PC before RC), it works quite nicely. I also allow the spend when you drain, as listed under normal Essence Drain.

Is the tea a Bruce Lee quote? I've seen similar ideas in some martial arts films.
Aerospider
Thanks Muspellsheimer, that should do just fine.
Starmage21
its a nice house rule. It presents both a boost, and a nerf at the same time. Being able to use your essence whenever you need it = WIN; losing 11 hours, and ~50 minutes of duration = BAD
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