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PatB
I read the SR4a rules, saw a few posts about how realist the rules are, but beyond all that there's still one thing I'm failing to grasp: what can a normal metahuman, without any enhancement, can fit in all that ??

The RAW says that all drivers need to spend at least one complex action per combat turn to control the vehicle (no test needed, just plain concentration). Seems logical, considering the speed, obstacle, and stress while in a Chase Combat.

So, unless I missed anything, normal metahuman (no cyber/bio/magical enhancement) would not be able to perform any stunt, unless taking the chance of crashing. Am I missing anything in the rules ?? Can everyone drive in VR/AR mode ?? What's the edge a Rigger has in this case ??

Thanks in advance
Aerospider
The driver may use the vehicle control action to perform a stunt. If they have more than 1 IP they are still limited to one stunt per turn.

The driver can choose not to spend an action controlling the vehicle, but this will impose a -2 to all passenger and driver actions during the following turn in which the driver must attempt to control the vehicle (normal complex action with a vehicle test, penalty applies) or automatically crash.

Anyone who is AR equipped can use it to help them drive the vehicle manually (getting a +1 DP bonus) or via remote control (no AR bonus, uses Control program).

Anyone who is VR equipped may use remote control or jump in, both of which lower vehicle test thresholds by 1 (which is worth three dice on average). VR drivers could also benefit from a +2 DP for hot sim (just don't crash!!) and +2 DP for a control rig. Furthermore, cold sim users get +1 IP and hot sim users get +2 IP and +1 initiative, so driving in VR is a way for a driver to do more than just maintain control without the need for initiative-enhancing 'ware, magic, drugs etc.

Being a rigger in SR4 is like being a hacker or a street samurai there are no hard and fast rules to determine a true specialist from a wannabe. As long as you have VR capability (i.e. a sim module) you can rig, though almost everyone would consider you a fraud if you didn't at least have a control rig as well. After that it just comes down to having (at least) respectable ratings.
DireRadiant
QUOTE (PatB @ Feb 18 2010, 07:31 AM) *
The RAW says that all drivers need to spend at least one complex action per combat turn to control the vehicle (no test needed, just plain concentration).


It is not required to spend this action controlling the vehicle. Spending this action merely avoids a subsequent Crash Test.

The action spent could be a stunt. Performing a stunt is a Vehicle Control test, which should count as the action for controlling the vehicle.

So if the Driver performs a stunt every combat turn they are controlling the vehicle.
Ascalaphus
...and of course you could just let the vehicle drive itself, if it has the appropriate Pilot (and preferably Maneuver) programs. If you want to keep your hands free to do other things, so to speak.
Udoshi
QUOTE (Aerospider @ Feb 18 2010, 07:25 AM) *
*vehiclestuff*


One thing I've been a little unclear on - do both the AR bonus and the VR bonus apply? Or do you only get to pick one, depending on how you're controlling the vehicle?

+1 dice is nice, because things like Gunnery tests can always use more dice. -1 threshold isn't so great when you don't have target numbers, or the test is opposed. Maneuvering, increasing/lowering distance, shooting people. That kind of test.
Ascalaphus
QUOTE (Udoshi @ Feb 19 2010, 02:34 AM) *
One thing I've been a little unclear on - do both the AR bonus and the VR bonus apply? Or do you only get to pick one, depending on how you're controlling the vehicle?

+1 dice is nice, because things like Gunnery tests can always use more dice. -1 threshold isn't so great when you don't have target numbers, or the test is opposed. Maneuvering, increasing/lowering distance, shooting people. That kind of test.


I don't think the +1 for AR is meant to apply to Gunnery, just to actual driving. Also, they don't stack; you can't be both in AR and VR mode.
Udoshi
QUOTE (Ascalaphus @ Feb 18 2010, 06:53 PM) *
I don't think the +1 for AR is meant to apply to Gunnery, just to actual driving. Also, they don't stack; you can't be both in AR and VR mode.


It does, actually. Help with shooting that is. Check the wording.

'Characters who are physically driving/piloting with the aid of augmented reality(they have subscribed to the vehicle as a service) recieve a +1 dice pool modifier on all Vehicle Tests. If they are remotely controlling the vehicle, they recieve no bonus.' Remote control is not rigging, however.

Worse, the Control Rig uses the exact same wording. 'The control rig provides a +2 dice pool bonus on all Vehicle skill tests while the rigger is "jumped into" a vehicle/drone via full virtual reality. This does not apply to other drone manipulation through the matrix.'

Looking down to vehicle actions, under Complex, we find 'Fire a Vehicle Weapon'. Is that a vehicle test? I think so. So is using Sensors, which makes a big difference in spotting stuff.

I'm not very clear on which bonuses you get under what circumstance, and if any of it stacks, aside from the control rig. That's pretty specific.



Aerospider
QUOTE (Udoshi @ Feb 19 2010, 02:09 AM) *
It does, actually. Help with shooting that is. Check the wording.

VEHICLE TESTS, SR4A p.168
"To make a vehicle test, the character rolls Reaction + the appropriate vehicle skill +/- the vehicle's Handling."

Also, the control rig wording explicitly conforms to this by referring to "vehicle skill tests", and Gunnery is not a vehicle skill. Nor is Perception (even using sensors).
Aerospider
QUOTE (Udoshi @ Feb 19 2010, 01:34 AM) *
One thing I've been a little unclear on - do both the AR bonus and the VR bonus apply? Or do you only get to pick one, depending on how you're controlling the vehicle?

+1 dice is nice, because things like Gunnery tests can always use more dice. -1 threshold isn't so great when you don't have target numbers, or the test is opposed. Maneuvering, increasing/lowering distance, shooting people. That kind of test.

The threshold reduction doesn't help with ramming moving objects or with the opposed vehicle test at the start of each chase turn, and shooting isn't a vehicle test anyway, but just about everything else is a threshold issue including the maneuver stunt. Anything trickier than overtaking another car on an uncongested freeway is going to have a threshold increase so in chase combat it's actually pretty damn handy.

There is nothing (that I can find) to indicate that a threshold cannot be reduced to 0, so in VR you have the added bonus that the simple things become an automatic success where even a DP of 3 would fail nearly 1/3 of the time. This works for me since when jumped in the rigger has 'become' the vehicle and rolling for such minor maneuvers would be like rolling to see if a PC trips over whilst walking down the street.
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