Well its been several years since I've played SR, and even then it was limited, but I'm hooked. Now after several years I'm trying to put together a group or at least get one person to dive into the shadows and it got me thinking; what is the typical corp sec you use in your campaigns?

I was thinking of a semi-standard load out of a typical corp sec guard as:

A flashlight
A Com Link
Armor clothing/vest
Handcuffs

and one/two of the following (was thinking the 600 and one of the others)

Extendable Baton
Stun Baton
Defiance EX Shocker
Fichetti Security 600


To me this seems like a standard grounds guard for any corp big/small with "special" reinforcements if necessary.

My only problem is I don't know what stats to give them. I was going to make a pool of interest and hobbies/vices so I could whip up a fresh batch of guards whenever I need them and pretty much have a background already worked out for them (killing Joe Guard is one thing; but Joe Johnson with 3 kids, a wife and a sick mother)

Anyways its late (I've been up 20 hours and this ate at me all day at work ) and I was wanting to know what all of you think. To me this would be a normal security detail at any corp minus the special staff for that new prototype in the basement . Well sorry for the random train of thought; good night one and all.

I would recommend the "Corporate Security Unit" (p.281 SR4A)

Pretty much the same equipment you suggested.

Hope that helped.

That seems like lighter security to me, the kind they would have in relatively public places, or relatively less valuable properties. For an actual corporate compound, I would give them SMGs, and glasses with low-light vision, smartlinks, and maybe cameras subscribed to a central security room.

I would expect Cram or Jazz, Longhaul, and skillwires to replace actual training.

Drop 6K on skillwires and you have a fairly diverse security guard. Also, you essentially own him because if he quits, you rip the wires out for future reimplantation, a la second hand 'warez.

Remember the rule of thumb from the old Corporate Security Handbook - the absolute max you should spend on security is half the value of what you are guarding. And only if you expect someone will come after it.

For low security sites, this pretty much means what you describe. These would be places the general public has access to or that simply aren't important enough to protect. Think places like shopping malls, low security office buildings, etc. These are the places where heavier gear would scare away the customers. Medium security would be SMGs and medium armor, say armor jackets. These would be places the public isn't supposed to go - research facilities, secure offices, etc, with no public to scare. Zero zones (no one in or out) would probably start with full combat armor, assault rifles, and heavy weapons. These are usually super secret and super secure. Every facility would have an armory (or two) where the guards could head and up arm in case of an emergency. Even low security areas would have automatics, probably rifles, and partial combat armor.

I just spent more than 1 hour writing a post in IE, detailing rent-a-cops, light corpsec, heavy corpsec and HTR teams, then I accidentally hit Ctrl+w instead of skift+w and now it's gone

Oh, that's weak.

I recently did something similar for Lonestar/The Cops.

Don't forget about biomonitors.
Makes sure the hackers have some jamming/hacking to do

Thanks for the feedback. I'm currently reading through 4A and was tinkering with the BP system. Currently back at work.... yay ; so i'll have to look at the corp sec section when i get home. Never thought of skill wires as that would be cheaper than training them and keeping them up on their skill.

As far as light sec goes I guess it could be on the light side but you start tossing more resources at guarding cubicals it'll start to show on your bottom line; I've always seen them as walking talking panic buttons, a heads up for those guarding the good stuff and the corprate big wigs. I do like the armory, like the skillwire, it never crossed my mind (people are burnt out on btls.. i'm burnt out on work)

On a related note, don't forget drones. They are close to the ideal guards: they don't get bored, they can work 24/24, they probably cost less and they are probably more expandable while being more efficient in combat in some aspects (compared to a standard guard). Their only weakness is that they can be hacked.

That's how I treat the rank-and-file Lonestar/police forces. Cutting a couple of hundren nuyen per person adds up. However they have to stay competitive, otherwise why are you wasting money on them at all?

Say: Colt Manhunter (heavy pistol with a +1 from laser sight) and say... a MP-5 TX. It has a laser sight, some recoil comps, and it can lay down suppressive fire. Throw on an armored jacked, a dose of jazz, and a stim patch in their pocket, and you're good to go for less than 2,000Y (and each shift can use/wear the same weapons/armor).

Also don't forget weapon modifications. They tend to be -a lot- cheaper than weapon accessories (like an underbarrel weight, forgrip, sling, and a few other similar mods are all less than 50Y each). Cheap way to improve your mooks a bit.

Sounds like a great recipe for trouble. Imagine an untrained guard, possibly flying high on the drugs, with a software skill that will obediently frag whatever his confused mind will point as a target. And that while acting faster than he ever has, which leaves him precious little time to figure out what the hell he's doing. That's not something I'd like to have anywhere close to something or someone I can't afford to have sprayed with lead.

You're going to get a lot of negative media attention faster than you can say 'innocent bystander'.

It's the kind of "poor choice" corpsec should be making now and then though, to drive home just how senselessly dystopian SR can be. Just like Black IC harassing harmless matrix shoppers who accidentally trigger alerts.

Followed by the corps doing media hush-hush magic.

In my deleted post I had urban explorer jumpsuit as a good alternative to armor vests when not needing heavy security - free biomonitor, and increased protection against non-ballistic threats, which after all is fairly likely when confronting small-time criminals, drunken brawlers and lowly gangers.


To y'all:

I notice a tendency in these posts to overemphasize fighting ability in security guards. Sure, it is a likely issue when your Shadowrunners confront them, but remember they are security guards not random mooks who's only purpose in life is to be mildly challenging for the PCs.

As for gear I didn't specify models, after all this is going to change from corp to corp and company to company. Why spend alot of money on Fichetti security light pistols when Ares Predators can do it cheaply and better? High ammo capacity isn't, or shouldn't be a primary concern for lightly equipped guards who's main purpose against professional criminals is to delay and obstruct them until heavier units can arrive. It's probably more popular with lieutenants though.
Otherwise colt america and Beretta 101T (Arsenal) are cheap alternatives.

Also when it comes to skills the primary skill for a security guard should be Perception, not Pistols or Automatics. Negotiation will be useful for corpsec or rentacops who are likely to encounter civilians and have to deal with conflict handling, which includes most of them. They don't need to be smart, but a guard without some intuition and ability to learn routes, codes, procedures and security systems will not last long in the trade. I'd assume 2 or 3 in relevant professional and street knowledge skills.

When statting them out and equipping them, think about WHAT they are guarding, against WHO they are guarding it, and WHERE they are stationed or patrolling. Although no standard corpsec will ever be equipped to handle Shadowrunners on a daily basis, there will be High Threat Response teams on standby in all big corps (A+ at least). These will be equipped and skilled on the level of SWAT, which means 4 or 5 in relevant combat skills, and will probably be using heavy armor, assault rifles, (gas) grenades or other explosives, and usually some kind of augmentation. Although a group of Shadowrunners may well be able to take down such a team, they shouldn't be able to do so easily, and there will be a chance of PC death if such happens.

Then of course there are drones, Smart Firing Platforms and paracritters, but these cannot help employee #145 to get a new access card, help an old lady over the street (PR), or perform the myriad of services a security guard can do. These systems/creatures should only be used to backup the guards in the first place, not replace them, and is generally used as a last resort. An exception would be discreet surveillance drones which are in essence "smart" mobile cameras, but even they require decision making, programming and maintenance. Why spend the valuable time of a security rigger or "Spider" when a security guard with a commlink and command program (and limited security access of course) can do the job much cheaper?

Especially if they are KE guards and can be equipped with a predator at cost. Arsenal also suggests the SCK Model 100 for Japanacorp security, and it wouldn't be too tough a handwave to suggest that Wuxing or someone else owns one of the other weapons manufacturers.

Thanks for the responses. Yeah the load out was a quick skim through the gear section and that's what stood out at the time. I was tinkering so everything is subject to random sparks of insanity

From a corporate standpoint I would say that security will always be.
-Cheap
-Replaceable
-Easy to use

Which means mass produced plug’n’play equipment that even a brick can use. No cyberware will be present since easy simple team based training will do.

Standard Security Guard Equipment
Uniform
Bulletproof Vest
Quick-Draw Holster
Light Pistol
2 Magazines standard ammunition
Handcuffs
AZ-150 Stun Baton [With Built In Flashlight]
Biomonitor
Glasses [Smartlink System]
Commlink [Rating 1 / Firewall 3]

The commlink only needs a signal of 1 since it is connected to the buildings network that always can access it and the firewall does not need to be higher than 3 since a security hacker monitors transmissions (no illicit surfing allowed on company hours).

The above only describes what I would use for everyday security guard with average attributes and then we have a gazillion drones, well, some at least.

Drones unlike people have a tax reduction, can be written off in a few years, simple to insure and can be recycled.

A Ferret with a few cameras and microphones and the right Autosoft can do the job a lot faster than most guards – and hardly needs coffee breaks and other time consuming non-work tasks.

Never underestimate peoples overconfidence in technology.

The Jopp is right. Humans are cheaper and more expendable. At the lowest level, you're probably hiring a dude for $25k/year, giving him the equipment above (except for the smartlink shades, depends on cost), plus a panicbutton and first aid kit (in the office, not on his person), and instructions that, upon perceiving a threat, he is to call Lone Star/Corpsec for support. His training will be aroudn 1 or 2 in his combat and social skills, and his attributes will be in the 3-5 range for physical stats. Orks are going to be pretty common here - they have good physical stats, and are considered disposable by default. Expect racism/inferiority complex to play a little bit more. This is your 'guy guarding the warehouse'.

Skills and equipment may alter slightly based on where he is. A mall guard will have less skill in firearms, but more in social skills.

Next level you might consider adding in some other low-level goodies such as low-light or thermo, better communications gear, social skills around 3, and perhaps some cheap combat drugs. Alternatively, a drone.

You could also go a step down - he has a flashlight, radio, panicbutton, first aid kit and uniform. This is your 'guy meeting audit requirements'. He has few, if any combat skills, and his attributes are in the 1-3 range.

Hmm, I'd think from a corporate standpoint security should be as effective as possible at the lowest cost possible.

As for the signal, I wonder if you haven't understood the rules correctly. While a device with signal 1 can surely access the Matrix, it cannot access the building's LAN unless the entire area is covered by nodes no further apart than 40 meters. Quite possible, but not always the case. Also signal 1 means it is extremely easy to jam.

Monitoring company commlinks will be done to a certain degree, but hopefully not 24/7 surveillance by a security "hacker" as that would hideously expensive. More likely there are some random checks, some nodes or types of matrix sites being banned on each commlink.

Also note some facilities are completely shut off from matrix, and may not have any wireless network at all, except the one between the guards and the central/hub/mainframe.

If the hiring guy were perfectly rational, yes. I wouldn't assume that is oftentimes the case

It occurs to me that the OP was requesting the average corpsec. What I and Jopp posted would, seem to me, be the bottom of the barrel corpsec, guarding a location of relatively little worth, whose highest threat would likely be vandalism or opportunistic burglary. That's not what your average Shadowrun team will encounter. However, I'd say the question itself is flawed. You say typical, I say typical for what?

Thinking on this, I think you could divide this up into categories -
High-collateral (i.e. strike teams), limited-collateral (security forces), no-collateral (i.e. front door guards, 'peace officers')
These are at a few levels, based primarily on cost - street, low, moderate, high, ultra-high (or if you prefer, F/C/B/A/AA).

Street level -
no-collateral is a guy with a uniform, vest, radio or panicbutton, flashlight. He may have a light pistol. He has 1-2 in relevant skills, 1-3 in attributes. He gets paid $14k/year or less. When faced with trouble, he'll run, hide and call for help. This guy guards low-value warehouses and car parks, or as a spotter. He's likely an ork.

limited-collateral is a guy with a vest, radio, panicbutton, flashlight, handgun or shotgun. He has 1-3 in relevant skills, 2-4 in attributes. He gets paid $18k/yr or less. When faced with trouble, he'll find a defensible position and make his charge an uninviting target while calling for help, but will given ground when faced with force. He guards low-value locations near the barrens such as stores or dealers, or may serve as a low-level enforcer.

High-collateral guy has an armored jacket or lined coat, maybe a helmet, radio, flashlight, knife, shotgun, assault rifle, or other big gun, and a selection of combat drugs, and possibly some used cyberware such as low-light vision, dermal plating and a smartlink. He has 2-4 in relevant skills, 2-4 in attributes. He gets paid $25k/yr or less. When faced with trouble, he shoots at it repeatedly while shouting 'booyah!' and calls for more beer. He guards moderate-value locations, such as distribution points, secret labs, protective housing, shipments, turf, or individuals, or as a dedicated strike team, operating in the barrens (or anywhere else, with a troll rock group). Oftentimes the corporate employer will subcontract through a local gang or fixer. He's more likely an ork or troll, because of their natural strengths and prevalence in the barrens.


Low level -
no-collateral is a guy with a uniform, vest, radio, panicbutton, flashlight, zip ties, possibly a light handgun or stun baton, possibly including those cool shades, with an opticam and/or low-light. Depending on his roll, he may have from 1-3 in combat or social skills, and 2-4 in attributes. He gets paid around $15k/yr or less. When faced with non-violent trouble, he'll call for backup and try to gather information for Lone Star/corpsec, and will intervene. When faced with force, he will run, hide, and call for help. His primary goal is to intimidate vandals and burglars, while witnessing and recording information for security response/investigation. He will guard low-value locations or provide basic services (directions, permitting/denying access, scanning for weapons, etc.) at warehouses, strip malls, or the front desk for very small businesses and corps.

Limited-collateral guy is a guy with a uniform, armored jacket, radio, flashlight, stun baton, handgun (light or middle), handcuffs or zip ties, possibly cool shades with opticam and/or low-light, biomonitor, possibly a smartlink or other low-level cyberware, or light combat drugs. He has 2-4 in relevant skills, 2-4 in attributes. He gets paid around $18k/yr or less. This includes low-tier security companies like Wolverine Security, and also your in-house security for B-rated corporations. He serves the normal security roles - guard, observe, assist, arrest, harass, so on and so forth, but mostly works in the bargain basement part of town, where sensitivity and skill take second place to cost. He may drive a modified Ford Americar or Chrysler-Nissan Jackrabbit. He is expected to be able to contain most threats long enough for reinforcements, but is not expected to take on such threats alone.

High-collateral guy has an armored jacket, helmet, radio, flashlight, stun baton or knife, shotgun/assault rifle/other big gun, handcuffs or zip ties, perhaps $4k or less in cyberware (usually including a smartlink, perhaps dermal plating), potent combat drugs. He may be equipped with one or more name-brand pieces of equipment, depending on who his employer is in bed with. He has 3-5 in relevant skills, 3-5 in attributes. He may operate with the assistance of drones. He may have a vehicle available, depending on his role. He gets paid $22k/yr or less. This may be the more aggressive response team of Wolverine security, the personal entourage/body guards of wealthy individuals who prefer not to rely on corporate assets, high-level gang members, low-level mob members, and also guarding low-level corporate assets in locations like the barrens or in the wild, where collateral damage is not a concern.

Moderate
No-collateral - Uniform, radio, panic button, cyberware scanner wand, portable SIN checker, stun baton, hand cuffs/zip ties, perhaps shades with low-light or thermo and/or opticam (equipment load-out depends on his role). 2-4 in relevant skills, 2-4 in attributes. He gets paid $17k/yr or less. His job is to contain and address non-violent trouble in a professional manner until police arrive, and to escort people to safety when faced with a violent situation, or to serve in an observe & report, front doorman or safety/customer service role. He may work at malls, regular business offices, gated communities, low- or moderate-value locations in nicer neighborhoods, or other places of interest. He may drive a C-T Jackrabbit, or some sort of convenient walking thingy so he can be fat and lazy still.

Limitied-Collateral - Uniform, jacket, radio, biomonitor, cyberware scanner, portable SIN checker, stun baton, heavy handgun, hand cuffs, used smartlink, possibly some other low-cost cyberware/modifications (depends heavily on who the parent company is), likely with a voluntary discount cyberware program available.. 2-4 in relevant skills, 3-5 in attributes. Gets paid $20k/yr with limited benefits or less. May drive in a modified Ford Americar or Chrysler-Nissan Patrol 1. May operate in pairs, or in teams. May operate with the assistance of drones, such as L-S strato-9 drones. These people are expected to perform all the duties of a normal police officer, and do so in a manner which is friendly and curteous to tax-payers.

High-collateral - uniform, light security armor, radio, biomonitor, stun baton, knife, heavy handgun, SMG, assault rifle and/or specialty load-out, smoke and concussion grenades, flashpaks, hand cuffs and zip ties, smartlink, basic cybereyes package, limited additional cyberware such as reaction enhancers, dermal plating, etc., top-line combat drugs, voluntary discount cyberware program available. 3-6 in relevant skills, 4-6 in attributes. Gets paid $39k/yr or less, with limited benefits. May drive a modified car (as above), security van, or other vehicles. Operates with the assistance of drones, such as L-S Strato-9s, dobermans, or others. May operate with other unconventional support, such as satellite imagery, air support, gas guns, etc. Usually operates in squads, and may including a drone rigger and magical overwatch. These are Lone Star High response teams.


(Okay, I think you get the idea...)

Thanks Nezumi; that's what I was going for.

Seeing as I have seemed to stir up a bit of a hornets nest with this let me set it straight....

Sorry for the tired post; it was very vague.

To me a corp is a producer and in that business structure has three main parts; admin, production, and R&D. I like to stack my security; for example:

At the corps R&D facility they would have heavily armed guards to a small army depending on the research going on

The production and admin buildings would have light armed guards, for rounds and basic compound security/little problems, with moderate to heavy response teams depending on whats going on at the facility/who's at the facility.

I was just wondering what all of you would load out a light armed guard and the skill sets one might have.

Well SR4A has a pretty good 'light' security guard on p. 281.

One of the big things is, a lot depends on how dystopian your 6th world happens to be. The guard on p.281 has 3's pretty much across the board, he'll be throwing 6 dice to shoot something. He does have a SMG, as well as a pistol, but he's not a tough cookie by any stretch of the imagination.

What they are armed with depends on what 'feels' right to you and where exactly the guard is stationed. Even today there are a lot of cops armed with automatic weapons. In London this past summer I saw cops with MP5's outside the parliament buildings and some subway stations. 15 years ago that would have been unthinkable. I've also been to some places in South America where the police won't go outside without an automatic weapon.

Just as a point of comparison. When I had to stat up the lobby of a small Ares office complex (about 50 floors) during the daytime I had 6 guards stationed around the place, 2 behind the reception desk, 1 by the elevators, and 3 in a security room off to the side. They were equipped with SMG's (can't remember which) and a suit of 8/6 'light' full body armour and helmets that was designed to look 'friendly'. They had glasses that had some hardware built in and their SMG's were smartlinked.

They were there as a visible deterrent to anyone wanting to cause problems, but not there to manage a standup fight. There were a total of 30 security guards similarly equipped around the building, a security spider, a wagemage, and a 10 man HTR which could respond to any location in the building within 5 minutes.

Another example that I would consider 'light' is a Wuxing dock that the runners had to infiltrate. The nightshift security in this instance consisted of 2 guards in a concrete gatehouse. They were equipped with SMG's and armoured vests. There were also 2 patrol cars with 2 guards indentically equipped in each and a 2 active drones (with 3 more on standby) equipped with AR's and remotely controlled by a security spider telecommuting from somewhere else.

Its that reason I type all my longer posts in Word or notepad and then paste it into the WYSIWYG Editor. That way I can save occasionally and I have all that effort someplace I can lay my hands on it.

(And yes that means I have all the crap I post as separate documents on my computer.)

Yikes that is some heavy security for a small Ares office building. Either your 2070 is extremely violent, or you compensate for your runners being highly maximized. My runners atm would probably be killed by the 30 guards alone, not even counting the HTR team.

Sure this is appropriate for a mid-level extraterritorial Ares facility doing weapons production/research or similar high-value risk targets, but for just an office building? In RL the same kind of building would probably have 1 unarmed security guard at day, and regular checks at night. Ok maybe a bit more considering it's an AAA corp but still. . .




Hehe, not a bad call. I downloaded the Opera browser (since IE is lame), and editied the commands so that ctrl+w didn't work.... way too close to skift+w which isn't so unusual combo to type. So now my chances of doing the same is much lower.

Tazer pistols should be standard issue to just about everyone.... they are already dirt common, and fairly cheap.

Cost of gear is also dependent on whether the security is do it yourself, or hire out... when hiring out, equipment may be heavier than first glance should indicate, as the company is being charged for better equiped and better trained gaurds....

Also, if it comes down to it, police patrol cars can add a decent boost in a reasonable amount of time for any medium or higher security neighborhood. Personally, my cops/security guards tend to be similarly armed, with a tazer pistol, auctioneer's business suit (uniform), light pistol, and baton. Police have 1 shot gun in car, 1 automatic (SMG or Assault Rifle) in trunk.

I can't speak for London, but in the US (and also, i suspect, Latin America), those 'automatic weapons' are actually semi-automatic rifles. 90% of the time when you see an automatic M-16 in the hands of police, such as at airports and the like, it's actually a semi-automatic AR-15. For anything other than HTRs, automatic weapons are a very bad idea - they have high-collateral (more bullets = less control and more to go wrong) for relatively little gain. However, Shadowrun doesn't have any proper semi-automatic 'black rifles'. You should probably sprinkle some shotguns and hunting rifles though among the moderate-collateral units I listed above.

The "automatic weapons" of the cops might also be just for dissuasion. In Paris there are armed soldiers in the train stations. Their FAMAS is not loaded, the magazine (or clip or whatever it's called) is inside a sealed and difficult to open plastic bag inside one of their pockets.

Those are "Gendarmes", not police officers...

You bet Drones are a great deal.

I think SR4 Drones are way under priced. Maybe by a factor of 5 or even 10 for military grade.

If you part out the components and soft ware even given mass production on an enormous scale.

Now given all these drone are unarmed and base models, but they are all large enough to mount an LMG.

MCT Nissan Rotor Drone is 2K which is cheaper than a Dodge Scoot, a Scooter at 3K.
It can mount an LMG. Must need a serious gyro stabilization system. An LMG gyro mount is 3K and and doesn't have to worry about the user flying.

A Doberman combat drone costs the same as an electric scooter and has 3 times the armor. The rigger Adaptation and turret weapon mount are 5K alone before you add in security armor, software, and hardware.


A Steel Lynx, which is a real combat drone, is 5K which is cheaper than half the price of a Honda Spirit, a sub compact at 10K.

Once again, the rigger Adaptation and turret weapon mount are 5K alone.

A racing bike is 6.5 and has less than half the armor.


Just to give you an example, the Predator (General Atomics MQ-1) currently runs the USAF 4.5 million.

Currently a Humvee runs 140K armored. It was about 100K when it came out while a H1 Hummer when they first came out 1992 was round 54K loaded.


I mean if it cost 50 to 100 K to train an infantry man then why not get 10 Steel Lynxes and a rigger.

For the price of a Rating 3 Active Soft you could get 6 Steel Lynxes.


And the corps and the military can afford to pay five times that for drones.


Now I could see massed produced mini drones but the Steel Lynx is a large combat drone.

I do not see military grade or even para security grade drones being that cheap. It is bad for business.

Firstly, drones can't stop you and ask for ID, or give special privileges to the big head CEO and his girlfriend to go ahead and visit the offices after hours.

Secondly, the books don't include all the maintenance and operational costs for drones. For every say fifty drones, you'll need at least a pair of drone maintenance guys + shop + kits (and that's a pretty flat thing - you need a maintenance guy for your drones, even if you only have one, and you want it to be someone in-house or from a VERY trusted supplier, ebcause they're your SECURITY drones), and you better believe they charge more than $12k/yr. Plus, for every 6-10 drones, you need a trained, skilled drone rigger, plus VCR, plus remote control deck, and he too won't accept $20k/yr for his services. If you're looking at say 50 drones for a moderate- or high-security facility, relying primarily on drones makes sense, but for most other people, it's an alarm system + a dude with a flashlight.

Thirdly, when your drone with your name on it that you maintain, program and operate, opens up on a bus full of nuns (there was a shadowrunner hiding on the undercarriage), you can't submit bloodwork showing it was high on kamikaze it was taking on its off time, fire its ass, and neatly sidestep a legal nightmare.

The Ford LEBD-1 might content that statement.



You can, however, "show" that a rabid technomancer hacked it and was ultimately responsible for the desaster, further reinforcing your campaign against accepting those freaks as beings deserving of human rights...