I currently run a Lagos campaign for my group and for a Tech-heavy adventure I intend to have them investigate a missings person case which obviously only became relevant after the daughter of a corp exec vanished from Victoria Island. During the course of their investigation they will come across a Universal Omnitech black research facility a few miles outside of Lagos.

Outer Perimeter Security should be Parashield SkySpys in the form of Vultures. Inner parameter security was supposed to be same setup as the SkySpy but on an african wild dog base. Close Proximity security would be regular CorpSec with trained Hyenas. So far no sweat. All of them easily done and mostly inconspicuous.

The gist of it, and this is where I need some input is the actual research project: Human Biodrones for military applications.
The background of the concept would be UO's gene databank used to find qualified test subjects and then simply aquire them for processing and training.
Heavily gene-modified on top of a very particular gene base, the test subjects are extremely rare individual (which warranted the kidnapping of the corp exec daughter).
Now, I want to give my party living hell on earth as their oposition (which I undoubtedly will), but I still want to mantain a plausible setup. The base will contain 10 fully trained test subjects and a dozen more in current processing and or training.

This is what the completely trained specimens would look like in my current design:

Human
B4(5) A4(5) R4(9) S4(5) C1* I4 L3 W1(2)* Edg0** Ess0,01 Init10 IP3

*: The conditioning process leaves the individual personality pretty much in ruins. That's why I opted for a Charisma and Willpower of 1.
**: With the loss of individuality and he remote operated nature of even Biodrones, I opted to remove the Edge pool for the Biodrones completely

Qualities***:
Biocompatibility (Cyberware), Type-O System

***: The very weird combination of qualities is the reason why the test subjects are so ridiculously rare and hard to come by.

Active Skills****:
Athletics SG 4(5), Close Combat SG4, Firearms SG 4, Perception 4(10), First Aid (Combat Wounds) 1(+2), Throwing Weapons (lobbed) 1(+2)

****: Those skills only cover those gained from the conditioning. Individually owned skills prior to the conditioning may still be available but it wouldn't be too far a stretch of the imagination to assume a retrogade amnesia as a result of the traumatic and exhausting conditioning process.

Active Skillsofts***** (as needed):
Exotic Weapons (Laser Weapons) 4, Gunnery 4, Pilot Aircraft 4, Pilot Watercraft 4, Pilot Groundcraft 4, Infiltration 4, Heavy Weapons 4, Hardware 4, Parachuting 4, Diving 4, Dodge 4(6)

*****: These skills are meant to be slotted as needed and cover skills which would require too much additional training time or would see use to rarely to warrant additional training expenses.

Gene Modifications (0,90E):
Adapsin (to facilitate the extensive custom cyberware suite that is about to be implanted)
Dareadrenaline (to cut off the survival instinct and facilitate the conditioning process)
Hyper-Glucagon, Neo-EPO (to allow for the inhumanely long training periods that would more than just exhaust a normal human body)
Synch (to facilitate the extensive combat training in the short amount of time)

Bioware***** * (2,10E):
Bone Density Treatment (4), Orthoskin (3), Platelet Factories, Suprathyroid Gland, Pain Editor, Reception Enhancers (3), Trauma Damper, Sleep Regulator, Smart Insulation

***** *: Those were chosen with two things in mind: Combat durability and operation time. The Pain Editor is meant to kick in, when consiousness is threatened or when pain threshholds endanger amenability. It works in close conjunction with the auto-injector.

Cyberware Suite - beta grade (4,49E):
CAST, Stirrup Interface (2), TRACES, SEIES, Commlink (Rating 5 or 6), Orientation System, Cranial Area Bomb, Sim Moule (hot-sim modified), Simrig, 2x customized Obvious Cyberarm [B6, A6(9), S6(9), re-useable auto-injector (6 doses each, Bliss (left), Nitro (right)), Biomonitor, Gyromount], Radar Sensor (4)

Armor:
Medium Military Armor [Articulated Weapon Arm (Ares MP Laser 3), Mobility Upgrade (3), Ruthenium Polymer Coating, chemical seal], Military Helmet [Camera, Flare Compensation, Image Link, Smartlink, Audio Enhancement (3), Vision Enhancement (3), Low-Light Vision]

Weapon:
HK XM30+Gas Vent 3 (modified for individual Squad Roles, depending on the assignment)


So, this is where I need the input. I know this setup is legal as far as the RAW are concerned, but is it plausible? Over the top? Underpowered? Improbable? I appreciate and and all suggestions.

Cheers,

Doc

Neat concept I think a few of us have toyed with using. First time seen em statted, depending on your game power level these guys could be a great combination of serious threat and creepy factor. I like the concept of only having to train a team of riggers who would be able to jump into matrix and control a prepped and ready "blank" fast response team anywhere in the world. Again depends on your teams power level but a team of these guys as you have them statted seem pretty potent. Toss a spirit or two into the security scheme to give em some magical cover and your players are in trouble.

Thanks for the input, much appreciated. And yes, creepy factor was one goal I was aiming for =)

I guess my thread title was too misleading to attract the appropriate amount of attention =/
I would still appreciate more input from other people. Thanks in advance.

Do they have any specific magical resistance? Only Willpower 2 seems a bit low.

Interesting concept. I like the idea that the subjects need to have rare genetic traits- fits nicely with the "missing person" hook. You could even run a prelim adventure- runners are hired to investigate numerous data steals from Doc Wagons medical record database- all involving genetic sequence data for customers of certain ethnic heritages...

I also like the adjustments you made to attributes (reduced WIL no EDGE) etc. These seem fitting and balance the bio drones (especially reduced WIL which will make them very susceptible to magic attacks).

As far as skills go, I think it would be cool if biodrones operating autonomously (i.e.- without a jumped in hacker) could somehow access their past skills and knowledge. This would support better autonomous decision making (which I think would be the real value and goal behind development of human biodrones). Maybe you could come up with a mechanic where you roll WIL + INT and if they hit a certain threshold they "remember" some skill from their past life that helps them in a particular situation. Of course, you would have to spend some time thinking about the personal background of each biodrone- obviously the corp exec's daughter isn't going to have many combat-useful skills, for example.

It is low. And no, they don't. The reason I set it so low is because they are broken. They are conditioned. I would consider a high willpower attribute contradictory to a broken state.

Naturally, that is a weakness, as it opens up two possible holes: A low stun damage track and low resistance against mana based spells. Against thought control spells, they can simply be overriden and rigged by the assigned Rigger, for combat spells, they are at a disadvantage unless accompanied by a combat mage.

My concept wasn't designed to be unbeatable, but to be plausible. What I want to now is whether the design actually is plausible.



Thanks. I appreciate the compliment =)



From a purely psychological perspective, whether or not you an anterograde amnesia has no impact on your decision making abilities. Thus, access to previous abilities would not be nescessary, but I like your proposal. I can probably add an adventure hook of Drone soldiers, spontaneously rembering who they are and freaking out, until their assigned rigger takes over, effectively subduing the personality in uproar (a little dose of Blizz helps to calm the subject as well. That's what the auto-injectors are for)

My two cents :

- rather than humans, i'd have looked for orks : stronger, thougher and less likely to be missed
- retaining previous skills is in my opinion a bad thing : it drastically increases the odds for loss of control compared to a 'blank slate' approach
- depending on the timeframe, cloning is probaby somewhere in the pipe : you can mix and match the best genomes, it also prevent the 'missing person' effect.
- which brings me to the 'who the heck decided to pick the family of an exec level guy' question. The odds for trouble are increasing in geometric proportion. Rather than some exec's daughter - something that even a cursory background check will pull out, I' rather make her importance less obvious. Maybe a voluntary test subject for a genetic program or the like while being for all but an in-depth check just another secretary.

Yes, the design is plausible. How strong is the magician(s) in your group? If you don't want the magician to just roll over the supersoldiers, maybe consider giving astral hazing (or a weaker version of it). This will also add extra creep factor when the magician astrally perceives.

Let me start by saying I love the idea. But I do see some drawbacks to these kind of soldiers. First I can think of would be what happens in a wi-fi inhibiting area? Without a rigger being able to access them I would think they would either try to escape, get revenge or simply curl up in a ball and rock back and forth. At the other end of the spectrum they would be vulnerable to hacking( i think, i'm fuzzy on biodrone rules). I'd say one of the biggest would be cost. For all the work time and nuyen that goes into these I'd argue it may actually be cheaper and more effective to simply build a cyberzombie or a cyborg.


That aside, I'd suggest the following improvements:

Full chem seal on that armor. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think mil armor comes with that out of the box. Would be embarrassing if your super soldiers went down to some nausea gas.

Get a nano-hive into one of those arms. There are a number of nanite systems you will want to take advantage of.

Vat cloned individual Gene crafted with Adapsin.

Orks would be even rarer to come by. Humans are still the most common metatype. If you are looking for an already rare gene setup, you would be doing yourself a disservice, if you narrowed your target population down even further.

Cloning would take a lot longer (you'd have to grow the clones first). And cloning isn't exactly cheap. Espcially in lagos, it would be a lot cheaper to just grab a viable target. Usually, people wouldn't miss anyone getting lost in Lagos.

That said: the decision to grab an exec's daughter is ballsy, indeed. After al, i needed a hool to start the adventure. And since it is humans making decisions here, bad judgment isn't exactlya rare occurence. Also, keep in mind that we aren't talking about a AAA exec, but rather a smalltime one. Solvent enough to pay the runners, though.

In an area, where the best ditricts are a rating 2 toxic zone. An area, where shedim and ghouls run rampant. An area, where toxic spirits are th least of your worries, small children eat humans and run around with AKs and the Sharia is considered "civil", a missing person case isn't exactly "negligent" on the part of the kidnapper.

At least that's how I see it. If you have arguments to the contrary, I would appreciate the input.

That all said: thanks for the feedback. Much appreciated.



The group's mage is of moderate power (M4). The area is a rating 1-2 toxic zone, so even with W2, it's going to be a rough ride.



They are still trained. That's why they have both base skills and skillwires. So even when cut off from their control base, they would still be able to perform according to mission parameters (using tacnet). They are conditioned, not drooling. They are still thinking human beings. All they lack is the will to resist.

The advantage of these over normally trained soldiers is cost. They are effectively submissive slaves that cost you the food and nothing else. You could keep a couple dozen of them at hand, while half a dozen specially trained combat riggers would be more than enough to provide oversight.

They are VERY susceptible to electronic warfare. I didn't list software, but obviously they would run encryption as well as eccm on their comlinks.
Considering that I want my group to exploit the living hell out of the electronic warfare rules to stand a chance here, that is intended.



Milspec Armor has chemseal right out of the box.



Great idea. I'll check some of the nano systems. Thanks a lot.

I think you mean retrograde amnesia. The goal is to make the person forget who they were before the conditioning started.

But I would argue that the idea of biodrone supersoliders doesn't fly unless you A.) want to put biodrones in places only people can go (in which case you are concerned about social norms and an ass-kicking supersolider probably isn't the right tool for the job anyway) or B.) you want autonomous decision making capability. Otherwise you can choose from a variety of non-sentient para-critter platforms that would make for betting killing machines without all the hassle of depersonalization. Yes it can be a weakness too (they might remember who they are) but there has to be a reason they are using sentient meta-humans. And skill sets (especially knowledge skills) almost certainly inform decision making. It may not be reflected in the game mechanics, but these guys are built heavily on fluff already, so it seems reasonable.

And I guess the real value would be in adapting to situations the programmers didn't anticipate (so to correct my previous statement- probably non-combat skills). Things like noticing an out of place detail or recognizing some identifying feature of the runners (corp-affiliation or whatever).

As long as she was taken while outside a secured corporate environment. An extraction under the watchful eye of corp sec is a smoking gun that just screams "professional job".

While theoretically possible, it wouldn't really be a viable substitute:



The research project wants fully autonomous soldiers that can be taken over, if need be (for excemple to excetute morally questionalbe commands)

JArhead the brain in ...

I kind of agree with the Orks.. but.. I would say.. have the initial 10 be human. The other additional 12 that are "in testing" be Orks/Trolls.

If they are able to just rip apart the humans, then introduce the Orks. Then if they do that.. here come the trolls.

You are correct.



The idea of the project is to have autonomous soldiers, correct. Especially the ability to make decisions when confronted with unexpected situations is what makes human subjects more valuable to the project than other animals.

That would a cyborg, not a drone, though. It would lack the ability to simply override their decisions, if nescessary.

Doppelgangers , one was made to do an extraction by Drake. Why can't there be more ?

Actually if you are making biodrones out of them, why don't you put agents or have a technomancer put a machine sprite in it. They'll use the autosoft you've put in them to do autonomous "thinking" ! Even Better ... Enrolls AI to have a meat body ! Some will enjoy it !

Of course there can be more. As I said: they'd be technically possible. The problem is a consistent method that yields the intended result. A certain drop-off rate could be considered acceptable. But in SR, technology is not far enough, yet to mass produce specific gene makeup humans in a vat with the sufficient cognitive capacites for this project.

Note: I am not arguing rules here, but plausibility in regards to the project. It would simply be more feasibly to kidnap viable targets than to clone them (from a financial perspective).



I was initially toying with the idea of having a xenosapient AI take over the research facility and possess bodies that way, but it would have been too many fringe elements in the same adventure and just end up looking ridiculous (personal opinion).

But yes, that possibility would be there.

Not necessarily. Just modify the drone so it can be rigged and make some sort of controller that cuts off the brain's access to non-vital functions(ie the basic sub systems that keep it alive)

But I feel I have to raise the point that if the conditioning is strong enough to turn normal civilians into mindless, effective killing machines without prior memory of their past lives yet can't override moral reasoning you should scrap the conditioning. Or get better conditioning and scrap the bio drone idea. In my mind one kind of makes the other obsolete.

Out of curiosity, what is the condition on the cranial bomb? Is it something the rigger triggers if they are about to lose the drone? Or something that goes off when the bio-drone gets hacked? Also, what kind of charge? You should consider a willy pete to destroy any evidence of him being a biodrone.

Also, consider a dose of K-10 in one of the injectors. Useful for a last ditch suicide attack, followed by that cranial bomb. I can see that resulting in a TPK though...

Yeah, that would be possible. I don't know whether I like it, though (personal bias). Also, I am not sure which is more effective in the end. Can you post a drone stat as to how you would envision such a Cyborg Drone to look like, stated out?



Moral hesitation was a bad excemple indeed. Take self-preservation, instead.



It can be triggered by the drone itself, or by the biomonitor, to avoid spoofing vulnerability. As to what charge: Fragmentation. The intention is to leave the biodrone inoperable and the tech pretty much unsalvageable.



Interesting idea. I think I like the 6 levels of Pain tolerance in Nitro more, though. I'll spend some time with the calc and see which one performs better. Thanks for the tip.

These guys seem vulnerable to hacking. Load up their comms with some serious IC, and consider having a security hacker in VR patrolling through their nodes.

I feel like, while the military armor gives them an advantage, it detracts from the creep-nasty hell-on-earth vibe you're shooting for.

Maybe consider just giving them FFBA and custom ballistic plates strapped over mistreated, disfigured bodies. Then give them universal Nantidotes and full face coverings (modeled after bunker gear with its built in thermal etc. etc.) to protect against chemical attacks.

Site guards in power armor sounds good, and maybe a couple super-soldier type biodrones in it, but you've got to show some flesh to get that blech.

Orks would be even rarer to come by. Humans are still the most common metatype. If you are looking for an already rare gene setup, you would be doing yourself a disservice, if you narrowed your target population down even further.

Limiting yourself to humans only would limit the pool to. which would make a mixed bag of metatypes the most likely. Especially if the project is still in the experimental phase.

Cloning would take a lot longer (you'd have to grow the clones first). And cloning isn't exactly cheap. Especially in lagos, it would be a lot cheaper to just grab a viable target. Usually, people wouldn't miss anyone getting lost in Lagos.

That said: the decision to grab an exec's daughter is ballsy, indeed. After al, i needed a hool to start the adventure. And since it is humans making decisions here, bad judgment isn't exactlya rare occurence. Also, keep in mind that we aren't talking about a AAA exec, but rather a smalltime one. Solvent enough to pay the runners, though.

In an area, where the best ditricts are a rating 2 toxic zone. An area, where shedim and ghouls run rampant. An area, where toxic spirits are th least of your worries, small children eat humans and run around with AKs and the Sharia is considered "civil", a missing person case isn't exactly "negligent" on the part of the kidnapper.

At least that's how I see it. If you have arguments to the contrary, I would appreciate the input.


If you're grabbing the subject in Lagos, which wasn't mentioned in your opening post. Which present a problem : the only peoples likely to have anything like a reliable medical record (which you'll need to spot them) will belongs to what passes for an upper crust there - leading to all sort of troubles as they've probably more than their share of trigger-happy goons on their payroll. Without records you'll need to grab and test (or maybe run a 'charity' outifit to do the testing), and many of the potential subjects will be in a crappy condition (malnutrition, diseases, possibly drug-fried brains... not what I'd call prime material). So I assumed the subjects were snatched in a somewhat civlized place and shipped to Lagos for use.

Which made it obvious an exec's daughter (even a not so high one) was a rather bad idea. Hence my suggestion for an apparently innocent target who's more important than appears at first glance. Important enough to send some runners on her tail.

Note : one option could be to have some questionable party interested in the girl for the same rare genotype which had her snatched in the first place - though depending on the PCs they could pass themselves off as something nicer. Tamanous comes to mind there.

Note about cloning : I said 'in the pipe', not something fully implemented and running. If he program is expected to grow to a significant scale, geting enough raw material will become increasingly troublesome as you will run out of easily snatched subjects - who need to have the right genes, be fit enough to be soldier material and not to draw too much inquiry when they go missing. Cloning will neatly solve the issue when you reach the 'full blown commercial scale' stage.

"Milspec Armor has chemseal right out of the box." - D2F

No, it doesn't.

"Each can be equipped with any of the armor modifications ... including chemical seal." [Emphasis mine.] From Arsenal page 51.

Good point. I'll play around a bit with alternatives to see what looks and feels right for my adventure.

Cranial Bombs, milspec armor, heavily augmented.....why am I reminded of Deus Ex here? Perhaps you should put a couple full-auto rocket-launchers on the armor's arms

Good argument. I'll draft up some Orks and/or elves as well (skipping trolls, because they'd simply be too friggin tough and Dwarves because they'd need specialized equipment, wheras the other two can wear "human" scale equipment.



They'd be snatched around the globe, but mostly from the african continent. Your idea with a "charity" organization is a really great hooked I didn't think of. Reminds me of the old UB. Great tip, thanks a lot.



I actually like that one better than the concerned father. I might borrow that =)



I agree on the concept, but according to fluff, SR tech is simply not yet at that level where you can reliably clone sentient beings and get something more intelligent than a tomato. Granted, that is fluff, and considering the options for negative qualities it is obvious, that sentient clones have been grown. It is unlikely that the tech is ready for mass production yet, though.
I could have the files at the research lab mention such plans, though =)

Doh, I need to polish my reading skills.

Well, making biodrones out of these soft-skulls seems like a perfectly viable option.


Also, one thing to think about with Orks is that they breed fast, and in litters. If one Ork has the right combination of genetics, there's an increased likelihood of more in the immediate family.

Why do I get the feeling that this new "charity" will be doing lots of free vaccinations and medical exams ?

Ah now that's good SR.

In one of the poorest, most overpopulated, most toxic and most disease ridden places of the world? What made you think that?