Starting Infected characters start with Essence 5 and Magic 1
during character generation. The Infected may increase their Magic
attribute with BP or Karma as any other attribute to a maximum
of 5 (+ initiate grade).

Thats Rules As Written from Runners Companion pg.77

Does this mean that that their max Magic Attribute is now 5? I realize essence works completely different for them. But I understand how their magic relates to essence. My question is is their max magic now 5, or does it remain 6? (not counting initiation).

Also, while we are on the subject, while their constantly fluxuating essence can make their magic go up and down, does getting cyberware permantly affect them? For example, a vampire with 10 current essence and magic 4 gets some deltaware implants costing 1 essence. Does he now have 9 essence and 3 magic, or still 4?

tag

Apparently if you buy up to 5 magic--no cyber, etc--then lose essence for not eating, so you have Essence 4, then your magic becomes 4. If you feed and raise your essence, your magic is still 4. But if you lose essence to 4 again, then you're still at magic 4 (not 3).

Your natural magic maximum is equal to your current Essence + Initiation. Ex: a nosferatu with 18 Essence can raise his Magic to 18, provided he can dump that karma in 6 months (before he naturally loses one point).

How this would affect PC Infected is you must start with a Magic of 5, but as soon as you start feeding in game you can raise it. Also, don't forget about boosting your Magic with Essence.

To answer the ops question, it depends ENTIRELY on whether the infected has Essense Loss or not.

If they Don't, such a Ghouls, they yep, they're max magic at start is 5.

If they DO, such as vampires, banshees, goblins, nosferatu, etc, then they have special rules to deal with their pogoing essence. The basic gist of -that-, is that there's a minimum level of essence in which they will start to suffer permanent magic loss if they don't Feed.

A nosferatu with 6+ essence has a natural maximum magic of 6+initiation correct?

Also, if I have 10 essence stored, and get deltaware Skillwires installed (R5). My essence rating drops to 5.5, my stored essence is still 10? What's my maximum amount of essence now? 15(5x3) or 16(5.5*3)? What happens to my magic if it's currently at 5?

Its basically like this, for Nosferatu(or other essense lossers.)

You don't lose magic normally.
Your Maximum Magic is = Essence(Current) + Initiation grade.
If your Magic is more than your Maximum Magic, then your magic is adjusted down to your maximum magic. Permanently, losing those points. So don't let that happen.
Infected may only maintain siphoned essence = twice their natural maximum; any above that is lost.
Spending Essence to boost statistics, via essence drain's Recent Feeding clause lets you temporarily go over maximum Magic.
If any other condition besides Essence loss or being Essence Drained causes an infected to lose Essence, the cost is subtracted from their maximum Essence.


So, basically, for Infected, you need to do a little more advanced bookkeeping. Keep track of your Essence(Base). (6-1 for some flavors of infected - other stuff, like ware.). Then you want your siphoned capacity, which is twice that(three times for nosferatu, cause they're special), and then your current.

So, for your example. You are an infected human. Your base essence is 6. You've installed deltawires, going to 5.5, and have not lost a point of magic yet. The maximum essence you're able to siphon off is now 16.5, because Nosferatu are special. Whether you lose magic from this depends on your Current Magic and your Current Essence.
If your current magic was 6, and your current essence -was- six(and is now 5.5), and you were -not- initiated, then you would lose a permanent point of magic, and feeding would not give it back.

Its basically like this, for Nosferatu(or other essense lossers.)

You don't lose magic normally.
Your Maximum Magic is = Essence(Current) + Initiation grade.
If your Magic is more than your Maximum Magic, then your magic is adjusted down to your maximum magic. Permanently, losing those points. So don't let that happen.
Infected may only maintain siphoned essence = twice their natural maximum; any above that is lost.
Spending Essence to boost statistics, via essence drain's Recent Feeding clause lets you temporarily go over maximum Magic.
If any other condition besides Essence loss or being Essence Drained causes an infected to lose Essence, the cost is subtracted from their maximum Essence.


So, basically, for Infected, you need to do a little more advanced bookkeeping. Keep track of your Essence(Base). (6-1 for some flavors of infected - other stuff, like ware.). Then you want your siphoned capacity, which is twice that(three times for nosferatu, cause they're special), and then your current.

So, for your example. You are an infected human. Your base essence is 6. You've installed deltawires, going to 5.5, and have not lost a point of magic yet. The maximum essence you're able to siphon off is now 16.5, because Nosferatu are special. Whether you lose magic from this depends on your Current Magic and your Current Essence.
If your current magic was 6, and your current essence -was- six(and is now 5.5), and you were -not- initiated, then you would lose a permanent point of magic, and feeding would not give it back.

Runner's Companion 76. Go read it. It makes a lot more sense when you realize the entire point of the rule is to not screw over awakened infected.

So, to summerize and clarify....

A human is infected before play, allowing for the character to create their munchkin Nosferatu.

Now, he only has 5 essence so the highest they can raise their magic to begin with is 5. Not wanting to pay the dreaded 25 BP for cap out they go with four. No cyberware of course because Deltaware is effing expensive.

Game starts. A few discreet joygirls later our fledgeling bald bloodsucker has 10 essence. He only loses 1/ 6 months so that sates him for awhile. He hits the streets with his trusty health spell focus sustaining his anti allergy spell and a few 'Runs later he has accumulated cash and Karma.

First, he raises his Magic stat to 5. Then, while thinking about it he decides some skillwires to compensate for his Uncouth quality are in order. A trip to an Aztec 'ware surgeon and a hellacious amount of cash and favors later nets him his wires. For the low low cost of .5 essence.

If I understand the RAW and posts here that means he now has 5 Magic still, 9 stored essence, and a 16.5 essence maximum. (because Nosferatu are special). If he feels he can maintain that 9 essence he could, in theory, raise his magic up to 9. If he felt exceptionally cocky and had the rediculous amount of Karma for it, he could raise his magic as high as 15 and keep replenishing his last essence point every 6 months.

Is that correct?

Edited after re-reading AH response and Udoshi's + book

no, he still loses Magic when losing Essence from 'ware (Essence loss from 'ware = loss to current magic and maximum magic)

[removed SR4.A quotes]

Beeing a normal dude with Essence 6 and Magic 5 or a Nosferatu with Essence 10 and Magic 5, if they lose Essence from 'ware (and only from 'ware), they both lose to current and Max Magic, thus both droping to Magic 4.

Which brings another matter, can Infected have more than 6 Essence worth of 'ware ?
I'd say no, limiting it to 5 Essence for Infected and 6 for others

Udoshi has the right of it; the Infected are a particular exception to the normal Essence/Magic rules and are noted as such.

Thanks guys!